The Soviet Cuba Division

[Olefin]

I think its more a case of them being defeated in Africa by the South Africans and their allies - most likely because their supply lines got cut by the war - or something like I had in my East African book where the South Africans got nuked by the Soviets (refineries I mean) and the South Africans got payback - and took out a lot of the Cuban air support and forces in the meantime

remember with the V1 timeline apartheid never falls - and that means that the South Africans still have their nukes when the war starts

[unkated]

Originally Posted by jester

But, do the Cubans have the sealift capability to land a force sizable enough that won't get wiped out by Buba, his cousins and their shotguns without even reaching dry sand?

Sure. 20-30 Cubans with AKMs and an RPK or two off Bubba and his family easily and make off with his stash before the cousins show up.

Would such an operation be worth the expenditure in fuel?

Not much by sail, perhaps an engine for the last few miles.

I would wager that most of the populations lives are pretty hard without a war and now would get much harder without oil and aid and the limited trade it had.

I bet that since the difference between before and after is far less for Cubans than for say Americans, the change would be less noticeable. Indeed, for some, there would be no difference.

Further, I'd suggest that the Castro regime is practiced at keeping control in tense periods.

And with that scenario, DIA or even some Free Cubans in exile could see that and do raids of their own....

Not a good way to keep several thousand well-armed Cubans from not deciding to throw in with the Mexicans and Russians.

Uncle Ted

[Darth Stalin]

Maybe someone is still interested in digging out that thread and know more about the Soviet brigade in Cuba, so here it is:

7th Independent Motorised Rifle Brigade (7-я Особая мотострелковая бригада), Military Unit No: 52388

Activated in April 1963 in Narokko, Cuba, from the 496th Motorised Rifle Regiment (activated in June 1962 from parts of the 132nd Guards Motorised Rifle Regiment).
Dec 1st, 1987 renamed 12th Training Center. Disbanded June 1991.


Organisation 1980:

3rd independent Motorised Rifle Battalion
4th independent Motorised Rifle Battalion
20th independent Motorised Rifle Battalion
5th independent Tank Battalion
42nd independent Artillery Battalion
?? independent Anti-Aircraft Artillery Battalion
?? independent Reactive Artillery Battalion
?? independent Reconnaissance Company
?? independent Engineer-Sapper Company
?? independent Chemical Defence Platoon
?? independent Communications Company
?? independent Material Supply Company

Manpower & equipment 1989:
• 2738 men, 40 tanks, 40 BMP and 80 BTR

Brigade coordinates:
• Narokko base/barracks: 22 58 19N, 82 20 35W - some parts were located in Torrance, Cuba

[kato13]

Pretty nice first post. Welcome aboard.

[Darth Stalin]

Originally Posted by kato13

Pretty nice first post. Welcome aboard.

Just trying to do my best
Long time ago I've used to play T:2000 as both player and GM; and these were nice old days...

And I always regretted that there was still so little known 'bout the Soviet/WarPact forces, so when such knowledge became available, then why should it be kept unknown to the others?

BTW: I've also wondered, if in the T:2000 universe the US 9th Inf Div (lt Mot.) would be reformed into "heavy" mech division, as were the last plans for it, arranged for FY 90 & 91 in real universe, approved but never executed ue to end of the Cold War.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by Darth Stalin

BTW: I've also wondered, if in the T:2000 universe the US 9th Inf Div (lt Mot.) would be reformed into "heavy" mech division, as were the last plans for it, arranged for FY 90 & 91 in real universe, approved but never executed ue to end of the Cold War.

This is news to me! I've wondered about the 9th, since I read in someone's '89 NATO OoB, that the 9th was given a wartime mission to Norway or Denmark. Going to either location as light-motor seems unlikely, light-foot or heavy makes more sense.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

This is news to me! I've wondered about the 9th, since I read in someone's '89 NATO OoB, that the 9th was given a wartime mission to Norway or Denmark. Going to either location as light-motor seems unlikely, light-foot or heavy makes more sense.

During this period, the 9th is part of I Corps, it was made up of two light/motorized brigades, a NG mechanized brigade (round out), as well as a combat aviation brigade. The 9th also had an additional NG armored battalion and a USAR engineer combat battalion, a RA engineer battalion and a CH47 aviation company, the 2-75 Ranger battalion, the 1st Special Forces Group and the 35th ADA Brigade are affiliated.

I Corps was intended for use along the Pacific Rim, along with the reinforcement of South Korea in the event of a NK attack.

[Darth Stalin]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

During this period, the 9th is part of I Corps, it was made up of two light/motorized brigades, a NG mechanized brigade (round out), as well as a combat aviation brigade. The 9th also had an additional NG armored battalion and a USAR engineer combat battalion, a RA engineer battalion and a CH47 aviation company, the 2-75 Ranger battalion, the 1st Special Forces Group and the 35th ADA Brigade are affiliated.

I Corps was intended for use along the Pacific Rim, along with the reinforcement of South Korea in the event of a NK attack.

Read more about that here:
http://www.history.army.mil/books/DA...9/CH5.htm#C5N6

Conversion of the 9th Infantry Division (Motorized)

The 9th Infantry Division (Motorized) was conceived by the Army leadership as a test bed for the design of a high technology, motorized light division. Advocates believed that it offered distinctive advantages in strategic deployability and sustainability and a high degree of tactical mobility and lethality if properly equipped, and at a low cost. Advocates contended the division could effectively meet mid-intensity and regional threats usually addressed by heavy conventional forces. In 1988 the Army ended this experiment and began to convert the division to a mechanized infantry design. Congress had refused to fund a light attack vehicle (LAV) and an armored gun system (AGS) that the Army considered necessary for a motorized division. The AGS, a twenty-ton tracked vehicle that mounted a 105-mm. rapid-f ire cannon that could be airlifted in a C-130, was canceled in 1987. The configuration and role of the 9th Infantry Division (Motorized) raised many doctrinal issues regarding the feasibility of organizing specialized divisions whose equipment was not standardized throughout the Army 's force structure. Other questions concerned the suitability of the division's equipment for its intended mission. For example, the HMMWV, the centerpiece of the motorized concept, seemed to lack the payload and armor protection to serve as a weapons carrier or platform .

Conversion of the 9th Division from a motorized to a mechanized division proceeded slowly in FY 1989. The Army liquidated the unorthodox test agency, the Army Development and Employment Agency, which had tried to adapt off-the-shelf, high-technology systems to the motorized division concept. A decision on the division's conversion to mechanized awaited approval of an environmental impact statement, not executed until FY 1990, regarding the effect of mechanized operations at Fort Lewis. The Army inactivated the division's 2d Brigade in FY 1988 to meet end strength reductions called for in the FY 1989 amended Army budget. In mid-FY 1989 the 9th Division's two active brigades, the 1st and 3d, each had three combined arms battalions (CAB). The 1st Brigade had a combined arms battalion (heavy) with two assault gun companies and an infantry company, a combined arms battalion (light) with two infantry companies and an assault gun company, and an armor battalion. The 3d Brigade was composed of a combined arms battalion (heavy), a combined arms battalion (light), and a light attack battalion of HMMWVs mounted with Tube-Launched, Optically Tracked, Wire-Guided Missiles (TOWs) and machine guns. The division's third brigade was replaced by an ARNG roundout brigade, the 81st Mechanized Brigade of the Washington ARNG .

The division's organization in FY 1989 was temporary pending a study of several configurations. One configuration envisioned a division of three brigades-armored, mechanized, and motorized. On 18 May 1989, the Chief of Staff endorsed planning that entailed creating a division of four armored, three mechanized infantry, and three motorized battalions and directed TRADOC to develop an appropriate AirLand Battle doctrine for this configuration. He also directed TRADOC to avoid impinging on the heavy modernization plan as it developed the division's design and to study the feasibility of adopting the Marine Corps' widely used Light Armored Vehicle (LAV-25). During FY 1989 General Vuono approved the conversion of two of the division's CAB (Light) battalions to mechanized infantry battalions. Planners were also entertaining a heavy design configuration of five armored battalions and five mechanized infantry battalions in an Army of Excellence design as a long-term goal.

and here:

http://www.history.army.mil/books/DA...91/ch08.htm#n3

On 5 February 1989, QUICKSILVER directed restructuring the 9th Infantry Division (Motorized) by 1991 to a separate motorized brigade with a strength of 3,900 men. Inactivation of the 9th, formerly known as the High Technology Light Division (HTLD), began in FY 90, but official inactivation of the division was rescheduled for 15 August 1992. Having inactivated its 2d Brigade in February 1988, the 9th inactivated its 1st Brigade in FY 90 and both its Division Artillery and 3d Brigade on 15 February 1991. The soldiers and equipment of the 3d Brigade were re-formed into the separate 199th Infantry Brigade.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Darth Stalin

Maybe someone is still interested in digging out that thread and know more about the Soviet brigade in Cuba, so here it is:

7th Independent Motorised Rifle Brigade (7-я Особая мотострелковая бригада), Military Unit No: 52388

Activated in April 1963 in Narokko, Cuba, from the 496th Motorised Rifle Regiment (activated in June 1962 from parts of the 132nd Guards Motorised Rifle Regiment).
Dec 1st, 1987 renamed 12th Training Center. Disbanded June 1991.


Organisation 1980:

3rd independent Motorised Rifle Battalion
4th independent Motorised Rifle Battalion
20th independent Motorised Rifle Battalion
5th independent Tank Battalion
42nd independent Artillery Battalion
?? independent Anti-Aircraft Artillery Battalion
?? independent Reactive Artillery Battalion
?? independent Reconnaissance Company
?? independent Engineer-Sapper Company
?? independent Chemical Defence Platoon
?? independent Communications Company
?? independent Material Supply Company

Manpower & equipment 1989:
• 2738 men, 40 tanks, 40 BMP and 80 BTR

Brigade coordinates:
• Narokko base/barracks: 22 58 19N, 82 20 35W - some parts were located in Torrance, Cuba

Add in other elements based in Cuba (advisors, technicians, etc.) that get converted to ground troops, add some more tanks and BTR's (gifts from the Cubans to get them out of their hair) and some helos and you basically have a good size division (by 1998 standards) right there