Ballistic Protection standards reference

[The Dark]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

The Dark:

NIJ Level 3 (Rifle): I wouldn't worry about 5.56mmN penetrating NIJ Level 3 (rifle) plates. Level 3 rifle plates (which are representative of SAPI plates too) are only rated for 7.62mm NATO rounds of 147grn weight at a velocity of 2780 fps. The 5.56mm NATO round has a velocity ranging from 2800 fps (M855) to 3100 fps (M193) and has ROUTINELY penetrated SAPI plates at short range. This is why my PEN numbers for an M16A2 (DAM 2D10/2D10/2D10/1D10) are 1/2/2/3. It can penetrate a SAPI plate in its older lead configuration (newer copper bullets seem to have trouble here).

I couldn't remember how 5.56mmN did against NIJ III, but based on your post and a comment on an armor manufacturer's site, I think the M193 round should definitely be Dam 3-3 Pen 1-Nil. I'm still not sure about the SS-109, which isn't quite as good a penetrator. It's better than a pure lead core, but it's not up to the same level as the M193 - SAPI plus an Interceptor vest has to survive three Green Tip strikes in order to meet the standard (along with three 7.62x39mm and three 7.62x54mmR).

NIJ Level 4/ESAPI standard plates: I haven't seen you post anything about NIJ Level 4/ESAPI plates so I thought I might mention them here. They are rated to stop a single 166grn 3006 Armor Piercing round at 2780 (today this round would be considered only an "enhanced penetrator" compared to the Tungsten and DU rounds in service now). It stops ALL 5.56mmN rounds as well as all 7.62mmN rounds.

I hadn't gotten to that one yet, since I wanted to make sure I had the II and III balanced before moving on to the IV. Since an armor-piercing .30-06 round should be Dam 4-4, AP 1-2-Nil, AV4 would suffice. As a side note, NIJ IV is rated to stop at least one round. The manufacturer can tell the lab to fire up to six shots at each panel, which is why their required number of armors for testing is wildly variable, from 7 to 37, since the test requires 36 shots, which could be on 6 armors or 36 armors, depending on the manufacturer's specifications (1 armor is a spare). However, without knowing a specific manufacturer's direction to the test lab, NIJ IV has no requirement above that one shot. ESAPI requires three shots from 5.56mmN, 7.62x39mm, 7.62x54mm, and .30-06AP, though for the last round only the first two shots are counted for pass/fail.

NIJ Level #+ plates/inserts: Any vest you see that features a + after its rating is a vest NOT rated by the NIJ. The manufacturer of these vests Guarantees that it meets the level standard (ie Level2+, Level3+...the most common types) that precedes the + but is claiming that vest actually EXCEEDS that standard. The problem with this is it may JUST EXCEED the rating or it may be at virtually the next NIJ Level of protection. Since tests vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, you are basically "blind" as to the vest's true rating.

A + is supposed to indicate that an armor has been tested to that level, and against an additional type of bullet as well, although I'm not sure how well that's enforced (and since only five labs are NIJ-certified, they'd be very busy with all the armor types being promoted these days). The NIJ test has allowances for non-standard armor (in the 0101.06 procedure, it's section 2.6 and Appendix B). Appendix B also has rounds that are "special threat rounds" that are considered "of particular concern to law enforcement," which could probably be considered AP rounds for the purpose of these rules.

Pistols, Rifles, Soft, and Hard Armors:

If you keep having balance issues, you can try differentiating between Pistol Rounds and Rifle Rounds as well as between Soft Body armors (designed for pistols) and Hard Body armors. I would try designating DAM with a "P" for pistol or an "R" for rifle. You then give your armor a suffix of "S" for soft vests and "H" for hard plate armors. Anytime RIFLE DAMAGE encounters SOFT ARMOR, just divide the armor rating in half (rounding down) BEFORE accounting for PEN to reflect the superior penetration of rifles. This, of course, would NOT APPLY to Hard armors.

I think the adjusted Pen stats, plus shifting armor to be 1 (for IIA) to 4 (for IV) solves the problem for most rounds. I do still need to look at some of the newer rounds (like 6.5mm Grendel or 6.8mm Remington SPC) to determine if they're more like the >7mm "brute force" rounds or the <6mm AP rounds. Since pistols are pretty much all 2-Nil, and the exceptions are relatively weak (the Five-seveN, for example), the only real trick is balancing out the rifles.

Finally, I would have any "Surplus Protection" of HARD PLATE ARMORS reduce the BLUNT TRAUMA DAMAGE by that amount. This reflects instances where soldiers wearing SAPI/ESAPI plates have been hit but are completely uninjured (especially by long range fire). Knockdown Dice would still apply (I apply Knockdown if you are hit by a round with MORE DAMAGE DICE than the average of your STR and AGL).

Yes, I agree that the plates should reduce blunt trauma damage. I even think the heavy soft armors should have some reduction:

SOFT armor: Divide number of dice of damage stopped by AV and round up; this is the blunt trauma damage taken.
HARD armor: Divide number of dice of damage stopped by AV and round down. Subtract any excess AV. This is the blunt trauma damage taken.

Examples using a close-range .44 Magnum (Dam 4, Pen 2-Nil):
Against IIA, 2 points of damage are absorbed. Target takes 2d6 and 2 blunt trauma
Against IIIA, all damage is absorbed. The 4 dice are divided by 2 (the AV), and the target takes 2 blunt trauma
Against III, all damage is absorbed. The 4 dice are divided by 2.5, giving 1.6, rounded DOWN to 1. The armor can absorb 5 dice, so an extra point is subtracted, and the target takes no damage.

Other things to keep in mind with this system - armor only protects where it covers; for most modern armors, that's the chest and abdomen, with maybe a 50% arm coverage. That still leaves a target with 40% uncovered on the legs, either 10 or 20% uncovered on the arms, and (probably) 3.3% uncovered on the head. At best, armor will protect against slightly less than half of random hits. Also, Outstanding Success will allow penetration of armors that would normally protect (an Outstanding Success by the .44 Magnum against NIJ III would cause 3d6 damage and 2 blunt trauma).

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

The Dark:

NIJ Level 3 (Rifle): I wouldn't worry about 5.56mmN penetrating NIJ Level 3 (rifle) plates. Level 3 rifle plates (which are representative of SAPI plates too) are only rated for 7.62mm NATO rounds of 147grn weight at a velocity of 2780 fps. The 5.56mm NATO round has a velocity ranging from 2800 fps (M855) to 3100 fps (M193) and has ROUTINELY penetrated SAPI plates at short range. This is why my PEN numbers for an M16A2 (DAM 2D10/2D10/2D10/1D10) are 1/2/2/3. It can penetrate a SAPI plate in its older lead configuration (newer copper bullets seem to have trouble here).

I am not sure where you are getting your information, but having shot level 3 plates with lots of different 5.56mm rounds if it is a level 3 plate it has to be rated to stop six separate rounds. So if a SAPI will not it is not a level 3 plate. The LE level 3 plates we shot would stop green (semi-AP) and even black tip (true AP) 5.56mm. At the shoots we did not get any vest to fail tell we were into the double digests of rounds. The manufactures provided the vests, we (the LE departments) the guns and ammo.

Originally Posted by swaghauler

NIJ Level 4/ESAPI standard plates: I haven't seen you post anything about NIJ Level 4/ESAPI plates so I thought I might mention them here. They are rated to stop a single 166grn 3006 Armor Piercing round at 2780 (today this round would be considered only an "enhanced penetrator" compared to the Tungsten and DU rounds in service now). It stops ALL 5.56mmN rounds as well as all 7.62mmN rounds.

As for the Level 4, the agency I was with had .30-06 custom Tungsten perpetrators designed to stop armored cars, the level 4 vests we shot that are only rated to stop one round, failed just after ten rounds in close to the same area (none of us were good enough shots to hit the same area, but we were all with in the X ring close to each other).

[The Dark]

Originally Posted by CDAT

I am not sure where you are getting your information, but having shot level 3 plates with lots of different 5.56mm rounds if it is a level 3 plate it has to be rated to stop six separate rounds. So if a SAPI will not it is not a level 3 plate. The LE level 3 plates we shot would stop green (semi-AP) and even black tip (true AP) 5.56mm. At the shoots we did not get any vest to fail tell we were into the double digests of rounds. The manufactures provided the vests, we (the LE departments) the guns and ammo.

There are some level 3s that the manufacturers state won't reliably stop the black tip. I think that, for gaming purposes, having the green tip be Dam 3 Pen 2-Nil and the black tip be Dam 3-3 Pen 1-Nil is a workable compromise. There are so many variations on 3 and 3+ that cover very specific rounds that a body armor system could easily become unplayably complex.

As for the Level 4, the agency I was with had .30-06 custom Tungsten perpetrators designed to stop armored cars, the level 4 vests we shot that are only rated to stop one round, failed just after ten rounds in close to the same area (none of us were good enough shots to hit the same area, but we were all with in the X ring close to each other).

That's a novel use for perps.

I do appreciate the anecdotes, though. For someone like me who rarely even sees armor outside of a museum, it's useful to get information from someone who's not trying to sell the armor.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by The Dark

There are some level 3s that the manufacturers state won't reliably stop the black tip. I think that, for gaming purposes, having the green tip be Dam 3 Pen 2-Nil and the black tip be Dam 3-3 Pen 1-Nil is a workable compromise. There are so many variations on 3 and 3+ that cover very specific rounds that a body armor system could easily become unplayably complex.

However you want to do it, just giving info from my experiences. And you get what you paid for it regardless of how/if you use it. Sometimes it is so easy to get bogged down with the details to miss out on the fun.

Originally Posted by The Dark

That's a novel use for perps.

I do appreciate the anecdotes, though. For someone like me who rarely even sees armor outside of a museum, it's useful to get information from someone who's not trying to sell the armor.

Going to the body armor shoot was a lot of fun, they let us shoot it with just about anything we wanted, they were even going to let us use the .30-06 on the level 3, until we broke out our ammo, one look at it and they would not let us use it on the level 3 plates, ball they were fine with, but did let us know that it was not rated for that round and may or many not stop it. We did not get to find out as we did not have any ball .30-06 with us.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by CDAT

I am not sure where you are getting your information, but having shot level 3 plates with lots of different 5.56mm rounds if it is a level 3 plate it has to be rated to stop six separate rounds. So if a SAPI will not it is not a level 3 plate. The LE level 3 plates we shot would stop green (semi-AP) and even black tip (true AP) 5.56mm. At the shoots we did not get any vest to fail tell we were into the double digests of rounds. The manufactures provided the vests, we (the LE departments) the guns and ammo.

I'm getting my info from the National Institute of Justice. The standards are that they test armor against 147grn 7.62mmN at @2780 fps ONLY. They do NOT test 5.56mmN in any of the NIJ Standards (I believe this is because LE wasn't using it when they wrote the initial testing standards in the 70's). The SAPI standard required stopping a 5.56mmN IN CONJUNCTION WITH an Interceptor soft plate (which is NIJ Level 3A) and NOT as a "stand alone" armor plate. this means you're backing an NIJ Level 3 plate with an NIJ Level 3A plate...in essence, giving that setup (in my game) an AV of 3. Most "stand alone" SAPI plates ROUTINELY perform at NIJ Level 3 (rifle) levels (which makes them no slouch in a "stand alone" configuration as well).
You may very well have had stops with 5.56mm, NO two manufacturer's armors are identical. Another factor may have been your rifles. If you were using actual M4's, their 14.5" barrels can reduce the velocity of the 5.56mmN by up to 300fps. The Level 3 plate does tend to stop any round NOT EXCEEDING 2750fps (and several rounds above 2800fps...cross-sectional density maybe?). Most testing in 5.56mmN is still done with a 20" barrel and the 3100fps velocity of M193 ball actually REQUIRES IT to hit 3100fps. Additionally, look at the new M855A1 ammo (with a 13% increase in velocity to more than 3100fps in a 62-grain projectile), It cuts right through an NIJ Level 3 vest at short range and STILL behaves like a Soft Point bullet inside the target. It could be as much of a "game changer" as MK282 was when it was introduced.
Check out both the Chopping Block and The Wound Channel on Youtube. They have the best videos of Level 3 plates being penetrated (usually by M193 ball due to its lighter grain weight/faster speed).

As for the Level 4, the agency I was with had .30-06 custom Tungsten perpetrators designed to stop armored cars, the level 4 vests we shot that are only rated to stop one round, failed just after ten rounds in close to the same area (none of us were good enough shots to hit the same area, but we were all with in the X ring close to each other).

I was wondering if you saw my mistake in the standards. I said one round when the standard is 3 rounds of AP. I'll make that correction today.
Once again, armor manufacturer's quality varies and there are several vests out there that EXCEED the minimum standard. I find it funny that the Standard is .30-06 AP, but that speaks to the age of the NIJ Standards as well (in addition to the state of "LE equipping" when they were written). Once again, 5.56mm (or 7.62mm) are NOT TESTED in this standard. The difference is that Level 4 plates ROUTINELY stop ALL 5.56mmN rounds...even though the velocity standard for this test is STILL only 2750fps (but with a hardened penetrator). ESAPI is, of course, a higher standard but any ESAPI plate is equal to, or better than NIJ Level 4.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

I'm getting my info from the National Institute of Justice. The standards are that they test armor against 147grn 7.62mmN at @2780 fps ONLY. They do NOT test 5.56mmN in any of the NIJ Standards (I believe this is because LE wasn't using it when they wrote the initial testing standards in the 70's). The SAPI standard required stopping a 5.56mmN IN CONJUNCTION WITH an Interceptor soft plate (which is NIJ Level 3A) and NOT as a "stand alone" armor plate. this means you're backing an NIJ Level 3 plate with an NIJ Level 3A plate...in essence, giving that setup (in my game) an AV of 3. Most "stand alone" SAPI plates ROUTINELY perform at NIJ Level 3 (rifle) levels (which makes them no slouch in a "stand alone" configuration as well).
You may very well have had stops with 5.56mm, NO two manufacturer's armors are identical. Another factor may have been your rifles. If you were using actual M4's, their 14.5" barrels can reduce the velocity of the 5.56mmN by up to 300fps. The Level 3 plate does tend to stop any round NOT EXCEEDING 2750fps (and several rounds above 2800fps...cross-sectional density maybe?). Most testing in 5.56mmN is still done with a 20" barrel and the 3100fps velocity of M193 ball actually REQUIRES IT to hit 3100fps. Additionally, look at the new M855A1 ammo (with a 13% increase in velocity to more than 3100fps in a 62-grain projectile), It cuts right through an NIJ Level 3 vest at short range and STILL behaves like a Soft Point bullet inside the target. It could be as much of a "game changer" as MK282 was when it was introduced.
Check out both the Chopping Block and The Wound Channel on Youtube. They have the best videos of Level 3 plates being penetrated (usually by M193 ball due to its lighter grain weight/faster speed).

I guess that I was not clear in what I was trying to say, I was more commenting on how you are the only one that I know of that talks about how a 5.56mm has better penetration than a 7.62mm. Also having looked a bit more into it SAPI plates are not rated by NIJ they are rated by ARMY MIL-STD-662F and STANAG 2920 Ed2, so have different standards (like where you pointed out that they are rated to stop with the vest, are not stand alone). As for the rifle used it was a semi-auto AR with 20 inch barrel, we used green tip, black tip, Mk 262 (I am guessing that is what you are talking about when you said Mk 282?) and a bunch of civilian rounds, we did not use the M855A1 I have heard great things about it, but no first hand experience. Some shots as close as 50ft, an never had a single round penetrate, however they were not SAPI plates, they were level III plates. I have not had the time to watch the videos, but going back over my notes from the training I did have a note how the Polyethylene Plates could have penetrations at some velocities, we did not shoot them we only shot the Ceramic and Steel Plates.

Originally Posted by swaghauler

I was wondering if you saw my mistake in the standards. I said one round when the standard is 3 rounds of AP. I'll make that correction today.
Once again, armor manufacturer's quality varies and there are several vests out there that EXCEED the minimum standard. I find it funny that the Standard is .30-06 AP, but that speaks to the age of the NIJ Standards as well (in addition to the state of "LE equipping" when they were written). Once again, 5.56mm (or 7.62mm) are NOT TESTED in this standard. The difference is that Level 4 plates ROUTINELY stop ALL 5.56mmN rounds...even though the velocity standard for this test is STILL only 2750fps (but with a hardened penetrator). ESAPI is, of course, a higher standard but any ESAPI plate is equal to, or better than NIJ Level 4.

No, I did not see you mistake, as I was also told in my class it was one round for level four plates. This was just more a comment on how tough some of the vests are from actually shooting them not reading reports or watching videos but first hand doing. Kind of saying how just because something is rated for X that does not mean it can not do more, you may not want to count on it to do more but sometimes it can.

[The Dark]

Originally Posted by "swaghauler'

Additionally, look at the new M855A1 ammo (with a 13% increase in velocity to more than 3100fps in a 62-grain projectile), It cuts right through an NIJ Level 3 vest at short range and STILL behaves like a Soft Point bullet inside the target. It could be as much of a "game changer" as MK282 was when it was introduced.

There are still issues with the M855A1, although not related to penetration. When American Rifleman tested the round, about 20% were flyers (and that was a test this year, after the bismuth alloy that deteriorated in hot weather was supposedly fixed). The accuracy also isn't quite as good as advertised, because the tests were done with a tighter twist than service rifles have (either 1:8 or 1:9, instead of 1:7). The current standard for approval is 5.5 MOA.

Also, the ballistic trajectory isn't the same, so all the rifle sights (from iron to red dot) will need to be changed. It's fairly close up to 200 yards, but beyond that it rapidly diverges to a six inch change in elevation.

It also causes port erosion in M4 tests due to the much higher pressure, which affects automatic fire rate and increases jamming. A SOCOM test found that on average, a rifle firing M55A1 would crack a locking lug every 6,000 rounds. Even without a catastrophic failure of the rifle, barrel life is reduced by around 50% due to the high pressure of the round.

All of these problems can be overcome, through improved quality control and toughened internals. As for penetration, the information I've seen is that it will penetrate NIJ III armor, but will not penetrate SAPI. When the Wound Channel tested the round, it went through III easily. Against III+, it failed out of a 16" barrel but penetrated out of a 22" barrel (it also didn't generate nearly the advertised velocity, being 2960 fps out of the 16" (and 3259 out of the 22")). Unless TWC had some underpowered rounds, the M4 won't generate the advertised velocity (though the M16 should). This probably explains why the USMC (which intends to use the M4 only) is using the Mk318 SOST ammunition at 2925 fps from a 14" barrel instead of the M855A1.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by CDAT

I guess that I was not clear in what I was trying to say, I was more commenting on how you are the only one that I know of that talks about how a 5.56mm has better penetration than a 7.62mm. Also having looked a bit more into it SAPI plates are not rated by NIJ they are rated by ARMY MIL-STD-662F and STANAG 2920 Ed2, so have different standards (like where you pointed out that they are rated to stop with the vest, are not stand alone). As for the rifle used it was a semi-auto AR with 20 inch barrel, we used green tip, black tip, Mk 262 (I am guessing that is what you are talking about when you said Mk 282?) and a bunch of civilian rounds, we did not use the M855A1 I have heard great things about it, but no first hand experience. Some shots as close as 50ft, an never had a single round penetrate, however they were not SAPI plates, they were level III plates. I have not had the time to watch the videos, but going back over my notes from the training I did have a note how the Polyethylene Plates could have penetrations at some velocities, we did not shoot them we only shot the Ceramic and Steel Plates.

It has only recently been shown that plates can be penetrated by certain rounds and ALL of those rounds have a similar set of traits. Those traits are a Sectional Density of 0.15 to 2, a small diameter caliber (think about the 5.7 as well here) and a Velocity ABOVE 3000fps for Level 3/SAPI. Velocity it seems is the key to ARMOR PENETRATION (but not necessarily "barrier penetration"). Not just 5.56mmN but several rounds exceeding 3000fps have been found to penetrate armor plates. In soft armor, 1800fps seems to be the "threshold" to penetrate NIJ Level 3A soft armor (check out Tim at The Military Arms Channel's tests on Levels 2 and 3A soft armors) and 1400fps appears to be the "threshold" for penetrating NIJ Level 2 soft armor (check out the tests Tim does with 7.62mm X 25mm T military ball). This is why I'm "espousing" velocity as the primary measure for PEN (the stat) in Twilight2000. Keep in mind that while a 5.56mmN 55grain M193 will penetrate a Level 3 plate at close range (turning the BATF's AP argument against M855 completely on its head); But, once its velocity drops below 3000fps, it will NOT penetrate the plate (which can happen as close as 40 meters out). This is why I figure PEN (the stat) for EACH Range Band based on a round's velocity for that range band (I use the range at the middle of said range band for this). This not only adds variety to the game but also provides certain limitations on some weapons. For instance, just because the 20" barreled M16A2 can penetrate NIJ Level 3 at Short Range doesn't mean that the 14.5" barreled M4 can. It gives a player a choice to make, the lighter, handier, M4 or more effective (with regards to range and PEN) M16A2.
The 7.62mmN will NOT have the PEN (the stat) that 5.56mmN has but DON'T look at 7.62 through the narrow lens of just the PEN stat. In my game, it has 4D10 Damage dice (at Short range) to 5.56mmN's 2D10 Damage. You have to look at DAM and PEN as a unit to really determine what a given round can penetrate. This is why I use a round's Energy to determine the DAM it can do (as per FF&S/Small Arms Guide formulas). I do this by Range Band too. The 5.56mmN may look impressive because it MAY (depending on barrel length) penetrate a Level 3 plate at short range, but look further out in Range Bands and you will see WHY 7.62mm is still used in MGs and Sniper Rifles (5.56mm begins to lose its "shine" starting at Medium Range). My point here is DO NOT look at PEN ALONE, you must assess PEN & DAM TOGETHER for an accurate view of what a round can do.

Thanks for catching that Typo on MK 262. I was talking about the Black Hills 77grn Open-Tipped Match round. The only 5.56mm N round in my game to make the 3D10 threshold (I modified the DAM calculation slightly by rounding up or down in various steps). It won't penetrate a Level 3 plate either (its lowered velocity nets it a PEN of 2).

Originally Posted by CDAT

No, I did not see you mistake, as I was also told in my class it was one round for level four plates. This was just more a comment on how tough some of the vests are from actually shooting them not reading reports or watching videos but first hand doing. Kind of saying how just because something is rated for X that does not mean it can not do more, you may not want to count on it to do more but sometimes it can.

I couldn't agree more. I have sacrificed 2 helmets, 2 soft vests, and a hard trauma plate (NIJ Level 3) to "see for myself" just how effective armor is.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by The Dark

There are still issues with the M855A1, although not related to penetration. When American Rifleman tested the round, about 20% were flyers (and that was a test this year, after the bismuth alloy that deteriorated in hot weather was supposedly fixed). The accuracy also isn't quite as good as advertised, because the tests were done with a tighter twist than service rifles have (either 1:8 or 1:9, instead of 1:7). The current standard for approval is 5.5 MOA.

Also, the ballistic trajectory isn't the same, so all the rifle sights (from iron to red dot) will need to be changed. It's fairly close up to 200 yards, but beyond that it rapidly diverges to a six inch change in elevation.

It also causes port erosion in M4 tests due to the much higher pressure, which affects automatic fire rate and increases jamming. A SOCOM test found that on average, a rifle firing M55A1 would crack a locking lug every 6,000 rounds. Even without a catastrophic failure of the rifle, barrel life is reduced by around 50% due to the high pressure of the round.

All of these problems can be overcome, through improved quality control and toughened internals. As for penetration, the information I've seen is that it will penetrate NIJ III armor, but will not penetrate SAPI. When the Wound Channel tested the round, it went through III easily. Against III+, it failed out of a 16" barrel but penetrated out of a 22" barrel (it also didn't generate nearly the advertised velocity, being 2960 fps out of the 16" (and 3259 out of the 22")). Unless TWC had some underpowered rounds, the M4 won't generate the advertised velocity (though the M16 should). This probably explains why the USMC (which intends to use the M4 only) is using the Mk318 SOST ammunition at 2925 fps from a 14" barrel instead of the M855A1.

There is NO QUESTION that the round has not been fully developed. I just hope they don't kill a thousand soldiers by rushing it into the field.

[The Dark]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

There is NO QUESTION that the round has not been fully developed. I just hope they don't kill a thousand soldiers by rushing it into the field.

It's been in use since 2010 (the Army announced the first shipment to a field unit on 23 June 2010) and at least a couple hundred million rounds have been ordered (~150 million in FY13 and ~65 million in FY15; I haven't run across numbers for other FYs yet). For current use, I'm more in favor of the Mk318, which is around half the cost of the M855A1, is a 62 grain round, and fires at around 2900 FPS from an M4 and 3100 FPS from an M16, using a solid copper slug behind a copper/lead point for use as a barrier blind round. The bronze tip might end up being better in the long run, but that 13% chamber pressure increase gives me the heebie-jeebies.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by The Dark

It's been in use since 2010 (the Army announced the first shipment to a field unit on 23 June 2010) and at least a couple hundred million rounds have been ordered (~150 million in FY13 and ~65 million in FY15; I haven't run across numbers for other FYs yet). For current use, I'm more in favor of the Mk318, which is around half the cost of the M855A1, is a 62 grain round, and fires at around 2900 FPS from an M4 and 3100 FPS from an M16, using a solid copper slug behind a copper/lead point for use as a barrier blind round. The bronze tip might end up being better in the long run, but that 13% chamber pressure increase gives me the heebie-jeebies.

This is typical US Army thinking... we'll just test it in the field.