RPG Forums

Go Back   RPG Forums > Role Playing Game Section > Twilight 2000 Forum
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #31  
Old 03-21-2010, 10:13 PM
Legbreaker's Avatar
Legbreaker Legbreaker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 5,070
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b View Post
Did I go too far with that one?
Well as our one and only confirmed female resident has disappeared and the trousers have come off a few members, I don't think so.

__________________
If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

Mors ante pudorem
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-22-2010, 02:14 AM
headquarters's Avatar
headquarters headquarters is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Norways weather beaten coasts
Posts: 1,825
Default too far

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b View Post
A group of soldiers is standing outside such a brothel with their Chaplain, he turns to them and says, "Go, and do god's work this day..."

Did I go too far with that one?


wouldnt the Chaplain rather exploit the red faced ,embarassed "caught outside the brothel with money in hand by a clergy man" moment to deftly sidestep the line and cut in before the squad ?

of course-half turning and crossing fingers in air towards the guys while saying " God bless you child"
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-22-2010, 02:29 AM
headquarters's Avatar
headquarters headquarters is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Norways weather beaten coasts
Posts: 1,825
Default to get back on track somewhat

You could argue that what is said of the US army here could be true for other militaries too - especially if operating in foreign countries with long supply lines etc .

I believe that the lack of supplies,manpower, fuel and the poor communication would make everything slow down to a hybrid of 19th century ,20th century and 21st century warfare ,tactics and strategies.


Thus the camp followers need a detailed explanation too imho.

One definition of such :

1.A civilian who follows a military unit from place to place, especially as a vendor of supplies or as a prostitute.
2.One who follows but does not belong to a main body or group.

At some point the commanders will realize that a group of camp followers tagging along can be a benefit -for instance to outsource tasks to .Not all skills or professions will be present in their own unit and someone to do these will possibly trudge along just far enough behind that they never get there until after the fight is over .

Even today you will see stalls outside military camps selling stuff to the troops,or small businesses springing up around the camps.They do all sorts ,dig a draintrench or garbage dump,pick garbage,wash and clean vehicles,collect the brass at the range,sell ,barter,deliver,run errands,fix little or big things.

In that way the camp followers are still there.

having an efficient group of camp followers could be important to a commander in the longer run.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-22-2010, 06:05 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 4,207
Default

Good point, HQ. I will add something about camp followers.
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-23-2010, 03:48 AM
Marc's Avatar
Marc Marc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sant Sadurni d'Anoia, Catalunya
Posts: 672
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by headquarters View Post
Having an efficient group of camp followers could be important to a commander in the longer run.
And a source of possible problems, quarrels and misunderstandings with the local population. It could generate some interesting plots for a game.
__________________
L'Argonauta, rol en catalŕ
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-25-2010, 03:58 PM
kota1342000 kota1342000 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 210
Default

Sorry for not being around, getting net service when youre driving truck can be iffy.
I agree with the initial assessments Raellus, Outstanding. I think Ill print it off as a summary for new players.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-25-2010, 05:45 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 4,207
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kota1342000 View Post
Sorry for not being around, getting net service when youre driving truck can be iffy.
I agree with the initial assessments Raellus, Outstanding. I think Ill print it off as a summary for new players.
Welcome back and thank you.

I'm working on adding some material based on the discussion here. I hope to have it up soon. Stay posted.
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-28-2010, 05:57 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 4,207
Default Updated Version

Here's the updated version of my essay in full. I added sections on morale, supply (field factories), and communications. Feedback is still welcome. Feel free to use the essay in full or in part.


After nearly three years of heavy combat, and two years removed from significant replacements of men and equipment, by 2000, the U.S. Army in Europe is a shadow of its pre-war self. Nevertheless, with no peace in sight, adjustments were made at all levels to allow the remains of the U.S. Army to continue to fight its Soviet and Warsaw Pact counterparts.

Supply

With most supply depots either destroyed by tactical nuclear strikes or emptied of their contents, keeping the troops in the field fed and clothed had become increasingly difficult by the year 2000. As early as 1998, commanders in the field received orders instructing them to live off of the land. The massive American logistics system had almost completely broken down and could keep only a handful of units supplied at mere fraction of their operational requirements. Creative, proactive commanders quickly secured food producing areas and either employed civilian farmers or tasked available troops to begin cultivation of crops for food and fuel production. Commanders that neglected matters of supply soon found their troops approaching starvation and were forced to requisition food, sometimes by force, from the local population, greatly harming the U.S. Army’s civilian relations in the affected areas.

Prepackaged combat rations and other processed foodstuffs became increasingly scarce as 2000 dawned. Although MREs and the like were still issued as emergency rations, hard-baked bread, cured meats, canned goods, and field-brewed beer had become far more familiar as combat rations as the war grinded on. Field uniforms were routinely used far past the point of viability. Civilians were frequently employed mending or even making various items of uniform. As well as weapons, helmets, and body armor, hard to make uniform items like boots and LBE were routinely stripped from the dead and reissued. Overall, a certain DIY ethos developed as field units were forced to become increasingly self-sufficient.

Field factories- usually small workshops staffed by a couple dozen local civilian workers under U.S. military supervision- sprang up in most forward cantonments. Such factories produced all manner of military equipment and supplies. The foremost and battlefield industry was small arms ammunition reloading. Spent brass was collected, and when primers and high grade power were available, reloaded with cast lead bullets (sometimes copper jacketed). Some cantonments had the capacity to manufacture simple mortar tubes and explosive and smoke bombs (60-82mm)- the most famous example of post-exchange mortars was the WOJO multi-caliber mortar manufactured in the Free City of Krakow. Larger caliber ammunition (all types of explosive, canon, and artillery rounds) was much more difficult to manufacture with the limited resources at hand in most forward cantonments. A very limited supply of common caliber heavy weapons ammunition was produced in cities with the surviving industrial capacity to produce it. Rudimentary uniforms, boots, LBE, and other relatively simple equipment were also produced by field factories.

Transportation

By the year 2000, the means to transport the limited quantities of food, fuel, and ammunition that were available to the front line troops had also become scarce. NATO’s supplies of military trucks had been winnowed down by attrition due both to enemy action and to extended hard use. A dearth of spare parts made repairing damaged or broken down vehicles incredibly difficult. Damaged and broken down vehicles were cannibalized to provide spare parts for other vehicles. Due to their mobile role, priority in motorized transport was given to the Army’s armored and mechanized divisions. Infantry divisions had to find other means to move their supplies and equipment.

Horses in occupied areas were requisitioned and simple yet functional wheeled carriages were fashioned out of truck parts. Horse-drawn wagons soon became a common sight in the rear areas of units on both sides of the conflict and they were soon tasked in hauling much of the standard infantry divisions’ artillery as well as their supplies. In this regard, as in many others, armies in the year 2000 resembled the German and Soviet armies of WWII.

Although NATO armies typically did not create horse cavalry units on anything approaching the scope or scale of the Soviet and Polish armies, smaller horse-mounted combat units were developed and deployed. Typically, horse mounted units were not encountered in NATO armies in anything larger than battalion size. More often, horse cavalry units operated at company or platoon size. These units were usually employed for reconnaissance, screening larger units during advances or withdrawals, and rear-area security operations. Although not as fast as, and more vulnerable than, wheeled vehicles, horse cavalry’s cross-country mobility was unsurpassed. An example of a horse cavalry unit in U.S. Army service is the 5th Mechanized Infantry Division’s reconnaissance battalion, the 4th squadron of the 12th cavalry, which preceded the division’s ultimately disastrous raid into northern Poland in the summer of 2000.

In order to increase the mobility of units that lacked sufficient motorized transportation, several attempts were made to reintroduce the concept of bicycle-mounted units. Some army battalions were converted to bicycle infantry. These units often served as their parent regiment’s mobile reserve when in it was in a defensive posture.

Communication

By early 2000, with the growing scarcity of replacement components and batteries for its radios, the Army had resorted to older, slower, and more reliable methods of communication. The field telephone (often simple, sound powered units) became increasingly important, especially in cantonments and other fixed defensive positions. The use of runners and dispatch riders- sometimes local civilians- to convey messages also became common as radios broke down or wore out. In a few cases, attempts to use carrier pigeons to transport messages between distant cantonments were made. Many AFVs operated without functioning radio units. Often, those AFVs with functioning radios were assigned to unit commanders. Although accurate statistics are difficult to collect from this period, a ratio of 3 to 1 (three inoperable radios to every functioning one) seems reasonable. In this regard, as in many others, the Army of 2000 had more in common with the Army in the first two World Wars than it did with the Army of just a half a decade earlier.

Mail deliveries between the troops on campaign and the folks back in the United States all but ceased in late 1998. Telephone calls and e-mails home had stopped cold prior to that, following the TDM. A drastic decrease in morale soon followed this breakdown in personal communication. As a result, increased space on the few flights and freighters between the foreign fronts and “back home” was devoted to carrying personal mail. Distribution in the field was a nightmare and many pieces of corresponded ended up in various dead-letter offices. Nonetheless, just the impression that the Army was making significant efforts to deliver the mail had a positive effect on the morale of the troops in the field.

Replacement Personnel

By late 1998, the flow of replacement troops from the United States slowed to a trickle. Those troops that did arrive in the ETO were poorly trained and marginally equipped with heavy weapons. Supply simply could not keep up with demand. Heavy combat losses could not be replaced at anything approaching a 1 for 1 basis. If fact, only about 10% of all combat losses from mid 1998 were replaced by American troops from the CONUS. Battlefield commanders were forced to find replacement combat troops from among the thousands of rear echelon soldiers already in theater. By 2000, this pool was considerably smaller than it had been in the war’s first two years. In many cases, rear echelon troops had suffered more from tactical nuclear strikes against the operational rear areas than front line combat troops had.

First to be pulled for front line duty were the pilots and ground crew of air force and army units who, due to aircraft losses and the scarcity of fuel and spare parts for what few aircraft remained, found themselves surplus to requirements. Then dedicated air defense troops who, by mid 1998, had largely lost their raison de etre, were drafted into Army units. Finally beached navy personnel, their ships destroyed or damaged beyond repair in the fierce fleet and small unit actions of 1997 and ’98, were called upon to serve in ground combat formations (when local circumstances permitted, navy personnel were usually assigned as replacements for “local” marine infantry units). Although some naval infantry and Air Force field units were formed during the Twilight War’s later years, these units were usually relatively small. The majority of surplus Air Force and Navy personnel were integrated into existing Army units. By early 2000 around 35% of all divisional personnel were former Air Force, Navy, and Army aviation and air defense troops.

Another method for increasing the fighting strength of American ground combat units was reducing the amount of time wounded servicemen (and women) spent convalescing before returning to active duty. Soldiers who in previous wars would have been sent home with a “million dollar wound” were cycled back into combat units. Soldiers with more serious wounds- those missing limbs, for example- were often assigned to logistics services. In order to maintain unit cohesion and morale, recuperated troops were placed back in their original parent unit whenever possible.

After 1997, it became increasingly common to encounter troops from allied militaries serving in American combat units. Field commanders, desperate for experienced manpower, often made little or no effort to return stranded allied personnel (often wounded troops returning to duty after receiving treatment in American medical facilities) to their original units. Although many of these men deserted and returned to their own forces when the opportunity presented itself, hundreds (if not thousands) of allied troops elected to remain in their assigned American units after developing strong bonds with their new American comrades in arms. Therefore, it was not uncommon to meet British and German soldiers serving in American units (and vice-versa). Less common, but also present in American fighting units by 2000, were Canadians, Danes, Dutch, and even Australian troops.

In addition to allied troops, some former enemy troops were also eventually incorporated into U.S. army units. Enemy defectors were often employed as translators and guides. POW camps throughout the ETO were canvassed for enemy combat personnel deemed safe/stable enough to be employed as laborers or supply troops. As time wore on, many of these defectors and former prisoners found their way into combat formations. By 2000, it was not unusual to encounter former enemy combatants serving in U.S. Army line infantry units. Although there were some notable exceptions, for the most part, former enemy soldiers were assimilated piecemeal into existing American units rather than being organized wholesale into nationally homogenous “foreign legions”.

This fresh infusion of military personnel, a large proportion of which was relatively untrained and inexperienced in ground combat, was still not nearly enough to replace the devastating losses suffered by combat units. In order to free up more American soldiers for combat duty, rear echelon troops had to be culled for combat replacements. More and more duties traditionally fulfilled by rear-echelon troops were turned over to local civilian volunteers. Most supply production and distribution duties were entrusted to local civilian “contactors”. In some cases where volunteers were not forthcoming, civilians were “conscripted”. Field commanders who were able to recruit and employ willing civilian workers in these essential noncombat tasks were able to significantly increase the fighting ability of their units.

On occasion, some of these civilian laborers joined the units to which they were attached on campaign outside of the cantonment. In some respects, these collections of civilian logistics and support workers resembled the baggage trains and camp followers of armies through the Napoleonic Wars.

Organization

By 2000, most United States army and Marine divisions were operating at around a third of their authorized operational strengths, oftentimes much less. This posed numerous organizational and operational complications for field commanders. In many cases, shattered brigades were disbanded and their surviving personnel used as replacements for other units. The number of maneuver battalions in each brigade was often reduced. Infantry companies routinely operated at around pre-war TOE platoon strength. Most armored brigades contained only enough functional MBTs to equip a single tank battalion. Due to heavy losses in IFVs and APCs, mechanized infantry divisions were often forced to reequip at least one of their brigades with trucks, some of which were lightly armored by field depots. Wherever possible, captured enemy vehicles were used to supplement the dwindling supplies of domestically manufactured vehicles and were often organized into separate units. For example, a mechanized infantry battalion might contain one company mounted in M2 Bradley IFVs, another in M113 APCs, and a third equipped with captured BMP-2s. As with combat personnel, allied AFVs were often claimed by American units. For example, in July of 2000, the U.S. 2nd Marine Division listed a former Bundeswehr Leopard III on its rolls.

In order to mislead enemy military intelligence as to NATO units’ actual strengths, and to provide whatever morale boost divisional identity and tradition may have given its members, divisional designations were maintained.

Late in the Twilight War, Divisional, brigade, and regimental HQs routinely operated with reduced staffs. Battalions, companies, and platoons were often commanded by officers of lower grade than the units’ established TOEs called for. Many platoons were commanded by NCOs. Field commissions were granted in abundance but the Army bureaucracy was so broken down that many of those commissions were never officially recognized.

Morale

Following years of nearly constant fighting, reduced supplies, and little to no contact with the folks back home, morale in the U.S. Army of 2000 was understandably low. Efforts were made to boost the troops’ morale, increase their fighting spirit, and discourage desertion.

After the nuclear exchanges, USO shows and other official morale-boosting entertainments all but ceased. Enterprising morale officers took stock of local talent and recruited musicians, actors, comedians, and other performers from among their parent units to stage improvised shows for the troops. After the TDM, leaves were by and large dispensed with. Most major leave centers had been destroyed by nuclear strikes and small groups of unarmed troops were no longer safe travelling the roads between surviving population centers. This removal of even the temporary respite of a hard-earned leave no doubt led to a widespread decrease in morale. Unit commanders had to get creative. Morale, welfare, and recreation (MWR) centers offering bathing facilities, clean sheets, food, drink, games, and other entertainments were set up in cantonment rear areas to provide some relief for exhausted, battle-weary troops. In some cases, the MWR included an Army-sanctioned brothel employing local women (volunteers, for the most part) and supervised by Army health officers. As often as possible, troops were rotated through these MRWs in an attempt to improve morale.

As their predecessors had done for centuries, unit chaplains also played an important role in helping to maintain morale. Whether officiating over religious services, administering the last rights, or simply providing the troops with someone to talk to, most chaplains worked hard to improve their charges’ sagging morale.

American propaganda officers made great use of the fact that dozens of American cities had been destroyed, and millions of civilians killed, by Soviet nuclear strikes. “Remember the TDM” (Thanksgiving Day Massacre) became a slogan frequently employed to demonize the communist enemy and rouse American troops’ fighting spirits. To a lesser extent, the idea that soldiers were fighting for freedom and democracy- the “American Way of Life”- against a godless, totalitarian regime bent on world domination also motivated many of the more idealistic troops to fight on. The cantonment, with its strong sense of community involvement and belonging, also acted as a pull-factor to keep soldiers from deserting. Many soldiers continued to fight more to defend their local cantonment than to defend their distant homeland.

Despite the Army’s best efforts, desertion became an increasing problem and field commanders were given extended latitude in dealing with deserters. Desertion was discouraged to some extent by geography. Outside CONUS, most American troops were unfamiliar with the language and culture of their surroundings. The sense of being a stranger in a strange land probably went a long way in maintaining unit cohesion. The cantonment offered a tangible sense of community and belonging to the troops who lived, worked, and fought there. Tales of cutthroat marauders* roaming the areas outside most cantonments also discouraged some would-be deserters.

*In nearly all cases, marauders were said to have been enemy deserters or local bandits. Reports of American or NATO marauder bands were generally suppressed as much as possible.

Nonetheless, officers had to contend with the slow but steady loss of fighting manpower to desertion. Over time, the Army developed a carrot- and-stick approach to discourage desertion. From time to time, amnesties were offered to deserters (the message being delivered by air-dropped leaflets and vehicle-mounted loudspeakers). Floggings and firing squads acted as the stick. Many units saw a return to corporal and capital punishment for a range of offenses, desertion foremost among them. Discipline was usually left up to the division commander and some deservedly earned a reputation for strict and sometimes brutal enforcement.

Skyrocketing suicide rates also slowly sapped the fighting strength of units in the field. A sense of dislocation, news of the massive civilian casualties back home, the traumatic experience of combat and the widespread sense that the war would never end led many troops to depths of despair. The Army in the field simply did not have the resources to provide mental health services to the growing number of troops dealing with PTSD and other psychological problems. Despite the Army’s best efforts to raise morale, many soldiers decided that death was the only way out of a horrific and hopeless situation.

In most cases, however, soldiers kept fighting for the same reason soldiers have continued to fight under miserable circumstances for millennia- they fought for their buddies.
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-28-2010, 06:06 PM
kato13's Avatar
kato13 kato13 is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago, Il USA
Posts: 3,658
Send a message via ICQ to kato13
Default Attachment

This seems perfect for a handout so I attached it as an rtf file.
Attached Files
File Type: rtf T2K - State of the U.S. Army in the late Twilight War.rtf (19.6 KB, 225 views)
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03-28-2010, 06:24 PM
Webstral's Avatar
Webstral Webstral is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North San Francisco Bay
Posts: 1,688
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc View Post
And a source of possible problems, quarrels and misunderstandings with the local population. It could generate some interesting plots for a game.
I agree. The hangers-on, who are doing some of the jobs that used to be done by the army, are a rich vein of material. I haven't done much with camp followers because I've mostly dealt with units that have fixed bases. However, in the viscous fluidity of the military situation of 2000 in Europe, camp followers would be a big issue.

Webstral
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 03-28-2010, 09:21 PM
Legbreaker's Avatar
Legbreaker Legbreaker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 5,070
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webstral View Post
However, in the viscous fluidity of the military situation of 2000 in Europe, camp followers would be a big issue.
I can see them being a huge hinderance too if the military unit relies on them too much. If the unit has to move, they'll need to either find transport for their support network, or try to sustain themselves for a while until the followers can either catch up, or a new group is established. Using the 5th and their relatively long and fast movement as an example, this could be quite some distance and for a very long time.
__________________
If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

Mors ante pudorem
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 03-28-2010, 11:56 PM
Marc's Avatar
Marc Marc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sant Sadurni d'Anoia, Catalunya
Posts: 672
Default

Great work with the updated version, Raellus. Easy to read and with all the needed points to introduce the players in the "Twilight Way of Life". It will keep it in hand for my future sessions. Thanks.
__________________
L'Argonauta, rol en catalŕ
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 03-29-2010, 08:54 PM
sglancy12's Avatar
sglancy12 sglancy12 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 161
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raellus View Post

Despite the Army’s best efforts, desertion became an increasing problem and field commanders were given extended latitude in dealing with deserters. Desertion was discouraged to some extent by geography. Outside CONUS, most American troops were unfamiliar with the language and culture of their surroundings. The sense of being a stranger in a strange land probably went a long way in maintaining unit cohesion. The cantonment offered a tangible sense of community and belonging to the troops who lived, worked, and fought there. Tales of cutthroat marauders roaming the areas outside most cantonments also discouraged some would-be deserters.

Nonetheless, officers had to contend with the slow but steady loss of fighting manpower to desertion. Over time, the Army developed a carrot- and-stick approach to discourage desertion. From time to time, amnesties were offered to deserters (the message being delivered by air-dropped leaflets and vehicle-mounted loudspeakers). Floggings and firing squads acted as the stick. Many units saw a return to corporal and capital punishment for a range of offenses, desertion foremost among them. Discipline was usually left up to the division commander and some deservedly earned a reputation for strict and sometimes brutal enforcement.
I would just like to offer a couple of things on the subject of desertion.

First, I imagine that the desertion among US Armed Forces over seas would be a lot lower than the rate among forces in the Continental United States. Here are my reasons:

The primary motive for desertion, in my humble opinion, is to get away from the dangers, terrors and discomforts of military duty in the time of war. But with the entire world reduced to chaos following three years of war and a limited nuclear exchange, leaving the armed forces is actually going to make the individual less safe, more uncertain and less comfortable. Being in the armed forces of the remnant of a national government means that there is a remote possibility of resupply or other forms of outside assistance. Safety in numbers and all that. So there is more motive for staying with the organized unit.

The second most compelling reason to desert is, IMHO, a desire to reunite with friends and family outside the military. This desire is going to be a stronger motivator for desertion than the desire for a life of ease, since frankly, there is no life of easy anywhere. To truly find such a life of relative safety and security, a deserter would have to try and reach France or Sweden or Australia or South America. None of that is very likely for US forces deployed over seas. Not the least of which because many of these places may have policies in place hostile to refugees. Think "Children of Men" for how the Union Frances probably treats refugees.

So being stationed in Europe, the Middle East or Korea places the US serviceman so far from home and (in the case of the Middle East and Korea) in such xenophobic and hostile terrain that sticking with their unit may be the only way to survive. Deserters would get a pretty hostile reception from the locals and might have to come crawling back to their unit for food and protection.

Deserters who return on their own might make excellent deterrents for other deserters. Rather than court martial and execute or flog the deserter, the unit commander might make him available to tell everyone how bad it sucks out there in the world all by your lonesome surrounded by Poles, Muslims and Koreans all giving you the stink eye and trying to figure out whether you're worth the trouble to rob.

In fact, the only chance of getting home is to stick with your unit and pray for an evacuation. In fact, after Operation Omega, I imagine that any deserters in the Perisan Gulf or Korean Peninsula might return to their units because they want to be sure they don't miss their only ticket home. I'm sure that when they return they will bring some very interesting stories to cover their absence.

Just to throw in some useless statistics I got off wikipedia... the Pentagon reported just under 8,000 desertions between the start of the Iraq war and 2006. Of those, only one desertion occurred overseas. Take those stats with a grain of salt, but I wouldn't be surprised by them at all.

US Forces stationed in the United States would therefore, I believe, have a much higher desertion rate due to soldiers wanting to return to their home communities (presuming they are not known to have been nuked) and ascertain the welfare of family and friends. After all, they can just start walking and eventually they can get there. With little except official communications crossing the country, many service men are going to walk away from their posts and try and check on their families.

However, these desertions would not have to be permanent. Once servicemen and women have either determined the fate or condition of their home town, neighborhood and loved ones, they might realize that they want to resume their duty and return to the military. (This presumes that their family isn't in a situation where they need every trained, experienced soldier they can get their hands on in order to make it through the week alive.)

Going back to federal service might be as easy as just strolling into the nearest CivGov or Milgov outpost and reporting for duty. Of course a unit commander may have very reasonable suspicions about taking on a probable deserter. Is this man working for marauders? Are they a spy for one of the other Governments? Is he going to sap morale or discipline and try and recruit others to desert with them next time? Even with those valid concerns, it seems unlikely that a deserter would be turned down if they wanted to rejoin... even if they admitted to having walked away from their previous post rather than maintain the fiction that they are just "separated from their unit."

As to punishment, sure you could flog them, like it's the Napoleonic Age, but after that the punishment better be pretty light. You could shoot them like some Communist commissar, but that's hardly the American way of war and it's likely to ensure that those that desert never try to rejoin your unit. Likely as not there would instead be some pretty grueling punishment details, but nothing that would be the equivalent of a suicide mission. Just all the dirty jobs that no one wants to do in the army. Digging Latrines. Providing the muscle digging entrenchments and filling sandbags. Digging. Digging. Digging.

Soldiers probably fear their Sergeant coming at them with a shovel more than they fear a punch in the guts or a boot to the head.

Mind you, I'm talking about soldiers who volunteer to rejoin a unit, not deserters who got caught sneaking out of the perimeter or who got caught napping in a deserted house by a patrol. The ones who are brought back at the point of a bayonet would be far more likely to face corporal or even capital punishment.

Just some thoughts.

Should we create a separate thread to discuss the way other countries address their desertion and recruitment problems?

And what do you call it when deserters/stragglers attempt to rejoin friendly forces? What is the term for that?


A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing

Last edited by sglancy12; 03-30-2010 at 12:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 03-29-2010, 10:12 PM
Legbreaker's Avatar
Legbreaker Legbreaker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 5,070
Default

I agree wholeheartedly about the desertion issue as described by sglancy. I'd even go so far as to extend the arguement to cover Soviet troops in Poland - Home is a VERY long walk away through terrain absolutely crawling with marauders and rear eschelon units just waiting to pounce upon deserters.
At least staying with the military gives strength in numbers and the probability of food in the belly for the forseeable future.
__________________
If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

Mors ante pudorem
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 03-29-2010, 11:31 PM
pmulcahy11b's Avatar
pmulcahy11b pmulcahy11b is offline
The Stat Guy
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 4,345
Default

I'll agree with SGlancy here. When you are a part of a military unit, they become your family in a big way -- that unit becomes your home with an extended family (albeit, often dysfunctional) in it. In the face of World War 3, the survivors of that unit will draw even closer together when they are far away from the US and there's no immediate prospect of going home in sight.

In combat, your fellow soldiers' safety also often becomes more important to you than your own safety. Even in peacetime, letting your fellow soldiers down is really considered low. That too will draw the surviving troops closer together. It may even be what holds together units composed of different nationalities.
__________________
War is the absence of reason. But then, life often demands unreasonable responses. - Lucian Soulban, Warhammer 40000 series, Necromunda Book 6, Fleshworks

Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com

Last edited by pmulcahy11b; 03-29-2010 at 11:34 PM. Reason: Bad Grammar
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 03-29-2010, 11:40 PM
Legbreaker's Avatar
Legbreaker Legbreaker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 5,070
Default

Even conscripts are going to feel the sense of family. It might only be a sense all conscripts are in the same boat, but they will still feel it. This may go some way towards explaining why individual desertions from the PACT forces were fairly minimal while whole units disobeyed higher command and stuck together (at least initially until the supplies on hand ran out).
__________________
If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

Mors ante pudorem
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 03-30-2010, 01:56 PM
Webstral's Avatar
Webstral Webstral is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North San Francisco Bay
Posts: 1,688
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raellus View Post
In most cases, however, soldiers kept fighting for the same reason soldiers have continued to fight under miserable circumstances for millennia- they fought for their buddies.
A very nice piece of work, Raellus. I agree with others that this would make a very good, very tidy introduction to Twilight: 2000 for new players.


Webstral
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 03-30-2010, 02:01 PM
Webstral's Avatar
Webstral Webstral is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North San Francisco Bay
Posts: 1,688
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sglancy12 View Post
US Forces stationed in the United States would therefore, I believe, have a much higher desertion rate due to soldiers wanting to return to their home communities (presuming they are not known to have been nuked) and ascertain the welfare of family and friends. After all, they can just start walking and eventually they can get there. With little except official communications crossing the country, many service men are going to walk away from their posts and try and check on their families.
Good call on that one. Wherever on e wishes to set the bar for desertions, CONUS is going to have it worse than the ETO, the Middle East, or Korea.

Webstral
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-14-2013, 05:11 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 4,207
Default

A PDF of the article.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf State of the U.S. Army.pdf (172.1 KB, 144 views)
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-14-2013, 05:11 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 4,207
Default

The article translated into Catalan and illustrated by our very own Marc. Thanks, mate!

https://sites.google.com/site/elrefu...-del-conflicte
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 02-15-2013, 10:54 AM
Marc's Avatar
Marc Marc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sant Sadurni d'Anoia, Catalunya
Posts: 672
Default

Thanks to you, Raellus.

After reading your Ok, I’ve added the link to access the page from our Twilight:2000 section of L’Argonauta. I’m sure our visitors will enjoy the overall result.
__________________
L'Argonauta, rol en catalŕ
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 02-15-2013, 04:04 PM
Lundgren Lundgren is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 33
Default

Really nice writeup

Shows that there are a lot of good information that I still haven't found at this forum.
__________________
If you find yourself to be in a fair fight; you are either competing in a sport, or somebody has messed up.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 02-15-2013, 04:14 PM
B.T.'s Avatar
B.T. B.T. is offline
Registered Kraut
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ruhrgebiet, Germany
Posts: 271
Default

@ Raellus: Excellent write-up, good info, consider it "stolen"
@Marc: I cant read it, but the illustrations seem very fitting!
__________________
I'm from Germany ... PM me, if I was not correct. I don't want to upset anyone!

"IT'S A FREAKIN GAME, PEOPLE!"; Weswood, 5-12-2012
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 02-16-2013, 11:25 AM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 4,207
Default

Thanks, guys. I'm currently working on a "chapter" on cantonments. I'll post a draft for review as soon as its finished.
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 07-21-2015, 11:50 AM
Draq Draq is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: texas
Posts: 329
Default

An excellent article, I've included it in my 'introduction' folder. A small compilation of things that form a comprehensive summary of the setting for v1 t2k, without having to sort through the books.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 07-21-2015, 04:57 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 4,207
Default

Thanks, Draq. I'm pleased that you found it helpful.
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 07-21-2015, 06:46 PM
pmulcahy11b's Avatar
pmulcahy11b pmulcahy11b is offline
The Stat Guy
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 4,345
Default

This is a good article. Just one point I'd like to make. While aircraft and helicopter use was still viable, rear-area troops could find themselves fighting special ops, airborne, and air assault troops on a regular basis -- Soviet OPLANs called for huge drops to capture certain supplies such as CEOIs, KYK modules, POL -- and places like B/D/G/JTACS and B/D/G/JTOCS practice sudden mass relocations (sudden for them, still takes about an hour for everyone to get going). They will also find themselves plastered by artillery, rockets, missiles, and air strikes, more than a soldier at the front might see.
__________________
War is the absence of reason. But then, life often demands unreasonable responses. - Lucian Soulban, Warhammer 40000 series, Necromunda Book 6, Fleshworks

Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 07-23-2015, 04:33 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 4,207
Default

I didn't mean to imply that rear-area/support troops didn't see any combat prior to the manpower shortages that necessitated their conversion to line infantry. You're absolutely right about shelling and Soviet raiders. I just meant that they wouldn't have a lot of firsthand experience in conducting basic infantry tactics- much less, at least, than front-line troops.
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 07-24-2015, 07:56 PM
swaghauler swaghauler is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: PA
Posts: 1,481
Default

Nice post man.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.