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#31
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Hmm, it's not as if airships could be considered as "rapid response units" when airlifting troops. Anyone waiting for the airships cargos, whatever they are, will have to expect it's not going to be quick. Might actually be faster in some cases to load up a few trucks and send a few light AFVs for protection. Not necessarily as economical, but faster...
Airships have the benefit of being able to access remote areas away from roads, bypass ground obstacles, and fly above the effective range of small arms. Definately a place for them, but they'll never replace ground based transportation options in the majority of cases.
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem |
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Many areas will still have Armored/Mechanized/Motorized reactionary force that would be able to get there much faster. What I was thinking about, were threats that were much larger force in which the initial unit and the reactionary force can't repel. Remember the units can only control is limited to where their troops are at the moment, but claim to control a much larger area. Also remember the type of force that may be large enough carry off significant attacks, would be full of troops that are unreliable. Even a Platoon or Company size force coming onto the field from the flank could throw a good size of any attack force into a panic. |
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I wasn't meaning JUST troops though but urgent medical supplies, important documents, etc, etc, etc.
Yes, the airship is vulnerable in combat if it gets too low and the enemy have decent weaponry (even an old blackpowder rifle might cause some problems). However, they can still be used as effective weapons platforms by simply flying them at a few thousand feet and dropping hand grenades and explosives. Even tipping buckets of stones and shrapnel might cause issues to ground targets provided the aim is right... Close up they're slow, big and unweildy bullet magnets. Altitude and the ability to move over inacessible terrain is their strength.
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem |
#34
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I doubt I could say it any better. Regardless of how the New Americans use their airships, the airship is a platform for strategic mobility. If well-armed truck convoys were both practical and practicable for connecting non-contiguous MilGov enclaves, the convoys would be rolling. I agree that truck convoys (and maybe even rail) are probably possible between Colorado and many area of Oklahoma. I’m sure a special effort could be made from time to time to collect enough trucks, AFV, and other necessities for a rolling convoy to move from Oklahoma to southern Illinois. Given the state of the country in late 2000/early 2001, do we really believe that any truck convoy that could be fueled and maintained on the road could be forced through from the Mississippi to New Jersey or Virginia? These Atlantic seaboard locations might be linked with MilGov cantonments along the Mississippi with sea traffic moving through the Gulf of Mexico and up the Mississippi, except that doesn’t seem to be happening, either. Another way has to be found. I think you both are dead right about the total misapplication of the airship as a tactical weapon or even as a tactical transport. Legbreaker, I think you are hearing what I am trying to say. The airship a slow, fuel-stingy, unglamorous and somewhat dangerous airborne cargo hauler. Webstral |
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The ridgid-hulled Zeppelins would be something that could easily be used to get really, really high up. At one time Popular Mechanics had an article that showed the USAF and USN where working on a program that would have used HUGE Zeps for in fight refuelling, and even use them for surveillence or extending the range of communications. If anyone knows where to find that article, i'd love to see it again...
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Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it. |
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I remember another PM article on placing a patriot missile battery on an airship. It would have solved the problem of Radar null areas from ground based radars as well as extending range as the missiles would start at altitude.
Last edited by kato13; 07-30-2009 at 03:53 PM. |
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Considering how the satellittes in the cannon timeline, the use of those old-fashioned 'weather balloons' from the late-1940s and early-1950s that could be used along with stationary zeps as communications hubs that could expand the range of communications (kind of like Cellphone towers).
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Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it. |
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Airships - great for transporting high value, low urgency but vital equipment, information and people.
Terrible for tactical situations, but still combat able in a strategic "bomber" type role. All in all, very useful but extremely vulnerable when used by the wrong people using wrong tactics. Resourcewise, they are likely to be expensive to set up and maintain, and other projects (such as repairing rail lines for example) are going to be screaming should too much be allocated to the airships.
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem |
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In all, airships would be a safer method of getting things moved, while railroads could be seen as a faster means. But capable of being hijacked by maraduers who can destroy the rails and bridges. You would have to put guards on those rails to protect them. While airships would only need guarded aerodomes. Putting them into the middle of the secure enclaves would fix that.
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Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it. |
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Once the airships have done their work by improving agricultural output, industrial output, and moving military resources to critical areas, MilGov will enjoy a growing number of contiguous friendly-controlled territories. Then the rail advocates are going to justifiably want a greater allocation of resources. Ironically, the more successful the airships are in a given timeframe, the more quickly their very success will cause them to be replaced as the prime movers of goods and people. I believe Faust experienced a similar phenomenon. Webstral |
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Rail was just the first example that sprang to mind. I could just as easily have said pretty much anything.
The resources that would be competed for mainly would be people, technical expertise, energy (electricty, etc) and fuel to shift the required materials to the construction areas. In 2000 and onwards all those resources would be in extremely short supply requiring the leaders and decision makers to make some very tough choices.
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem Last edited by Legbreaker; 08-01-2009 at 06:24 AM. |
#42
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Webstral |
#43
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Airships are a good idea, but I doubt that what remains of the USAF would be putting all of their eggs -- and resources -- in one basket. Airships may be produced for transport and strategic bombing purposes, but I suspect that we would also see the return of light WWI-style, cropduster-like aircraft (something along the lines of a Curtiss JN-4D Jenny) that can operate from crude landing strips and have been modified to burn regular gasoline. You wouldn't get much airlift out of them, but they would be ideal for providing local air superiority.
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#44
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Here in Tucson, with the annual golf tournaments around town (Tiger's been here the last two years), I get to see a variety of blimps floating about on a fairly routine basis. Last year, a semi-rigid frame German airship operated out of the regional airport two miles from where I teach, for about a week.
Anyway, it's surprising how fast they get around. I honestly couldn't tell you the average blimp/airship's top speed, but their ability to overfly tricky terrain types (rivers, hills, swamps, etc.) and bypass roads lets them get to places faster than trucks travelling the same distances. The other thing they've got going for them is that they are extremely quiet. You really don't know they're around until you actually see them coming. Granted, that's not too hard, but they are really quite stealthy, sound-wise.
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
#45
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(Yes I'm having another crack at commenting in this thread - hopefully I'll start making some sense).
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Military Airships during WW1 worked primarily at night. If you get a chance to research it, look up Peter Strasser. A WW1 German Airship commander who was one of the best the Germans had. He was actually respected by the British, when he was killed the British treated him to a military funeral with full honors just like they had gave the Red Baron. During WW2 the british flew stationary blimps all throughout london to keep fighters from flying low to the ground.
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Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it. |
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Targan, what I probably ought to have said already is that differing opinions are what makes a final product strong. I get a lot out of being challenged. I'm forced to do more research, and I'm forced to look at things I thought I knew. The more I read, the more I come to believe that it will be many years before Colorado Springs can attempt an Akron class of airship. I've been obliged to look at the Colorado-Oklahoma-western Kansas economy in an attempt to formulate some rational idea of how many people can be freed for industry of every type. Obviously, only a small number of them can be diverted to something like airship production, as every day life requires items like ammunition, soap, and clothes.
Webstral |
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Sorry Natehale, those weren't blimps, they were unmanned balloons called barrage balloons. They were used throughout the uk and even off the back of ships. Stormont, the Northern Ireland Assembly building, is near where I live, and along the sides of the driveway up to it you can still see some of the baseplates where barrage balloons were tethered.
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Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird. |
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__________________
Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it. |
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Sorry, when you said blimp I thought you meant they'd been manned. Not sure about the nets but I think they did dangle cables from them, as well as the mooring cable. If I'm down towards Stormont anytime soon I'll try and get a photo of the base mountings, although they aren't particularly inspiring, just concrete blocks with rings through time iirc.
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Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird. |
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I'd say a big yes to that.
I had to pick up my son from his preschool last year. I had to drive about 7 miles (averaging about 45mph) and cross through a narrow pass between two high hills to get there. The airship I mentioned took off from the regional airport at about the same time that I got started. I got to my son's classroom, signed him out and was walking him back to the parking lot when a large shadow blotted out the sun. I looked up, and there, about 300m or so away, was the airship. All I could hear of it was the faint thrumming of its motors. If I hadn't have been outdoors, I wouldn't have heard it at all, I don't think. I can see blimps/airships being extremely useful in inserting teams by parachute at night.
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
#53
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Chuck
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Slave to 1 cat. |
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Epic thread necromancy for great justice!
The airship described in this article seems to be of a Lifting Body Airship design like those described in Airlords of the Ozarks: The world's largest aircraft has been unveiled - and it's a mammoth The title is a bit confusing though. It's not really a mammoth ![]()
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After reading this post again...I love this idea for a comms satellite.
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/airdef/tars.htm
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"Oh yes, I WOOT!" TheDarkProphet |
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Here is a Nova program about WW One Zeppelin.
Their is a lot of info about how they work. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/militar...or-attack.html |
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In the name of thread necromancy, I command thee....RISE!!!! (pun intended)
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![]() Also, lifting gas can be obtained in small caches from shoppes that offer helium balloons--a tank here, a tank there, and if you can luck into an industrial gas supplier, a whole bunch of tanks there. Also, if helium is the major lifting gas, it could be supplemented by a central hot air ballonet which could provide raw lift when needed, or allow rapid descent without venting precious helium. Quote:
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"Let's roll." Todd Beamer, aboard United Flight 93 over western Pennsylvania, September 11, 2001. |
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I was reading about how you thought one might construct an airship. your concerns about resources are unfounded if you have access to the resources of a military base or air base.
First. The range and speed of the Airships in the posts above are VERY SLOW. Even an improvised prop motor could push a Blimp at 80km to 100km per hour. The typical range at about 90km per hour would EASILY be 1000km with a standard sized fuel tank. Aluminum would be (and is) the metal of choice. Airships can have multiple Gas Bags inside the superstructure and these bags can be made out of the same fabrics as hot air balloons. Old parachutes would make good material for the bags. You can seal them by simply coating them with either wax or mass produced pine resin. Just double stitch every seam and seal them with the materials above. The gas is harder but can be generated anywhere IF YOU ARE WILLING TO USE HYDROGEN GAS. Hydrogen Gas Generation Method 1: Put an electrical current through ordinary water. If you use salt as an electrolyte, you can generate the gas with as little as 1.5 Volts of electricity. This method generates BOTH Hydrogen Gas AND Oxygen Gas (which is useful in a variety of ways). Carbon Graphite (from a #2 pencil) will make a good "electrode" in order to boost current flow from your electric source WITHOUT contaminating your gas. Hydrogen Gas Generation Method 2: Mix Hydrochloric Acid and Zinc. This dangerous method will generate huge quantities of gas but also harmful byproducts. The reaction and acid byproduct are BOTH dangerous. Hydrogen Gas Generation Method 3: Put water in drain cleaner (or any product containing Sodium Hydroxide) or mix water with shredded aluminum foil (or aluminum dust) over low heat. As you can see, there are a number of ways to make Hydrogen Gas that can be scaled up. You just have to be willing to live with the potential fire hazard of the gas. As you can see, blimps are a very easy technology to reproduce in Twilight2000. |
#60
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During the American Civil War, Thaddeus Lowe had gas generators that used sulphuric acid to dissolve iron filings, thus producing H2 gas and Ferric (ferrous?) sulphate, or so my long-ago Chemistry lessons are trying to convince me.
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"Let's roll." Todd Beamer, aboard United Flight 93 over western Pennsylvania, September 11, 2001. |
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aircraft, airships, helium, ultralights |
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