Sniper teams

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by Webstral

Ain't that the truth! Bored NCOs (not to be confused with NCOs doing their jobs) are the bane of a soldier's non-combat existence. I know the US Army meant well by altering the battalion TO&E to include a staff sergeant major (as opposed to the command sergeant major) for the purpose of improving career progression. However, the handful I've seen have not impressed me. I've seen too many pointless ass-chewings of Joe when Joe was going about his business, basically squared away. I watched the 4-64 AR SGM quiz a Joe who came through the line of fire for literally ten minutes until he found something Joe didn't know. Then Joe got his head bitten off. War is hard enough without that garbage.

To be fair, the same SGM established a system whereby the watch towers of the FOB were visited sporadically and without warning to ensure the sentries were doing their jobs. It was a staff sergeant performing these rounds that discovered our resident narcoleptic asleep at his post. That needed to be done, and the battalion sergeant major was the one who made it happen.

Webstral

Honestly, it was the always the 2nd Lt that I use to get kick out of. You know the ones who would cross the street to get their daily ration of being saluted, lord behold if you didn't notice him crossing the street and he was behind you.

Still with is garrison they would wear the shiny stuff instead of sewed on rank...lol

Reminds me of also the time when me and buddy were in Airborne School and we took our cloths to laundry mat on base, in uniform. I know the Sergeant was trying to square away a couple way ward enlisted men, I forget what was wrong, I think it something to do with out pant legs not being bloused inside the boots. You know when you out of boot camp/AIT and they tell you to dress one way while in the Battalion Barracks and forget to remind that once you leave their sacred grounds others will ream you out. He didn't give us hassle and was very polite, he didn't dog us, but when you week out of AIT, the two of us were scared and worry that we be pushing the floor of that place deeper into Red Georgia Clay.

Yes, you may not always agree with Officer or senior NCO, but at time they do have some good ideas that help everyone out, regardless of their personality flaws...

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

So are you saying that the Sergeant Major at Battalion level is no longer considered a Command Sergeant Major, or did they give Master Sergeant slot a promotion?

A whole new slot for a non-command sergeant major has been added.

Webstral

[HorseSoldier]

there's a command sgt major and an operations sergeant major.

[perardua]

Our snipers normally operated as a Section when out in Afganistan, and they rotated sniping and spotting duties between themselves to give them all experience. All British snipers should have gone through the relevant course (whether Army, Royal Marines or RAF Regiment) and will generally then act as a spotter or sniper depending on the situation. In the bad old days the spotters weapon was an LSW, for the added range compared to a rifle, but now RAF Regiment sniper Sections go with a balanced range of weapons (four L85s, two L85/UGLs and two LMGs, though our sniper section commander preferred to take GPMGs due to the ranges he expected to work at) plus the four Long Range Rifles, and I imagine that the Army and Royal Marines are similar.

We also used quad bikes to enable our sniper Section to go off and do their own thing, which gave them a lot of autonomy to do OPs without having to be inserted by a patrolling Flight, especially with the addition of a trailer for a few days supplies.

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

there's a command sgt major and an operations sergeant major.

So it entirely a new position. Or was the Operation E-8 bumped up. Which in many cases probably should of been, but then other the person was only there because he got to E-8 and wasn't E-9 material nor First Sergeant material so there were only so many other E-8 slots to place them...

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by perardua

Our snipers normally operated as a Section when out in Afganistan, and they rotated sniping and spotting duties between themselves to give them all experience. All British snipers should have gone through the relevant course (whether Army, Royal Marines or RAF Regiment) and will generally then act as a spotter or sniper depending on the situation. In the bad old days the spotters weapon was an LSW, for the added range compared to a rifle, but now RAF Regiment sniper Sections go with a balanced range of weapons (four L85s, two L85/UGLs and two LMGs, though our sniper section commander preferred to take GPMGs due to the ranges he expected to work at) plus the four Long Range Rifles, and I imagine that the Army and Royal Marines are similar.

We also used quad bikes to enable our sniper Section to go off and do their own thing, which gave them a lot of autonomy to do OPs without having to be inserted by a patrolling Flight, especially with the addition of a trailer for a few days supplies.

I think in the t2k the sniper teams would perform a variety roles and would go off on their own at times instead of trying to get lost during a patrol. It would take unit to learn fast when enemy patrol goes by they leave an unexpected package. They would learn to attack these patrols regardless if they were delivering a team or not to an area...

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Mock26

I once saw a program about snipers and they were going over training for (if I remember correctly) British snipers. Part of that training included spotting 20 or so ordinary objects placed at varying distances, things like a spoon or a candy wrapper and such.

It's KIM training. Keep-In-Memory. You identify objects through binos and then you go do other stuff and 20 minutes, 2 hours, or some other designated timespan, then you report what you saw. Scouts do similar.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by waiting4something

When I was in military, the sniper was the senior member that had gone though and passed scout sniper school. The spotter was the junior guy that a lot of times had not gone through or completed the school and was just a referred to as a scout or PIG( precision instructed gunman). But this was also before they got big into urban sniping and hanging out in larger teams. Has it really changed that much?

You were a Marine though, right? I think that might be one of the differences between us and them. I went to Army Sniper School in '97. My understanding was that was how our teams were set up since their inception, but at least long enough before I went to have been the accepted norm. Our spotters are the team leader because they have more experience to spot the rounds in varying conditions, make the calculations/corrections, and generally have better situational awareness with the shooter's eye glued to his optic.

[perardua]

We know it as Kim's Game, from the Rudyard Kipling novel Kim where the main character plays it as part of his training. Most soldiers do it during basic training as part of the lessons on judging distances and general observation, but anyone in a job like sniping or recce will do it a lot more.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by perardua

Our snipers normally operated as a Section when out in Afganistan, and they rotated sniping and spotting duties between themselves to give them all experience.

This is the norm for US Army Sniper teams as well. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying, but one guy is officially slotted as the spotter, the senior guy, and the shooter is the junior guy while he learns what to look for and what not. Once they get out there, it's like any operational team, people get tired, you take shifts, someone is on security, etc. etc.

[perardua]

I get what you're saying and it sounds pretty much the same as how we operate. Do US snipers normally carry an M16/M4/whatever as well as the sniper rifle itself, or do the spotters and snipers trade weapons back and forth? I know ours tend to carry their L85 and keep the LRR in a valise on their back until they need it.

[Eddie]

Depends on the mission. There were times when I carried the Barrett out, there were times when I carried my M24 in a drag bag and used my M4 predominately, there were times when I carried my M24 only. Bear in mind, I never deployed as a member of a sniper team though, it was all before 9/11 and in a training environment.

[perardua]

Mission dependent as always, it's the usual answer for anything military! Still, good to know.