Rifle Grenades

[Legbreaker]

This particular item is British in origin and faded into the background here in Australia at least when the M79 and M203 became relatively widespread. In all my years in the infantry I only saw them once and fired about half a dozen (training) grenades with it.
The gas plug on the L1A1 SLR has to be turned to prevent the gas system operating (ALL of the gas goes out the barrel) and a ballistite round used. One HELL of a lot of recoil - enough to break your thumb if wrapped around the pistol grip! The grenade pin is pulled, butt of the weapon placed into the groin (yup, scary, I know!) and the front/only sight on the adapter raised. Propels the grenade up to about 200 metres from my rather sketchy memory.
The grenade and fin section come apart on hitting the ground, the lever is released and the grenade bounces a bit further on until it explodes. The fin section can be recovered for reuse.
The adapter can also be used to fire other types of projectile and the Australian Navy were using them to shoot lines between ships up until about 2000. The rifle can be fired using normal rounds with the adapter (but not grenade I hope!) in place, but it's a good idea to turn the gas plug back around to the normal position first, otherwise you're left having to recock for every shot. A bayonet cannot be fitted at the same time (the adapter uses the bayonet catch to hold it in place).

[DocSavage45B10]

Uhuh, 'Ballistite cartrige' is just a fancy way of saying 'high preassure blank', since Ballistite is just a trade name for an early formula of smokeless.

Fun fact, the (almost) original formula of Ballistite is still used as rocket fuel.

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Another (and woefully out of date now) is an M26 grenade clipped onto a sleeve with vanes that slides over an adapter. This is then fired with a Ballistite cartridge (after the pin is pulled of course). On striking the ground the grenade springs loose allowing the arm to fly free - a few seconds later and BOOM.
Potentially this can be reused (with a new grenade of course) if it can be recovered. I don't know anything about manufacture of the ballistite though so couldn't say if this would be a problem in 2000.

This type of weapon would I think become more and more common as time dragged on as existing hand grenades can be used. Naturally they're useless against any for of armour, but as a replacement for underbarrel type grenade launchers and light mortars, they're likely to be very handy.

(A quick wiki search later and it looks like ballistite is dead simple!)

[Legbreaker]

Ballistite is a smokeless propellant made from two high explosives, nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine. It was developed and patented by Alfred Nobel in the late 19th century.

It was trademarked yes, however it is simply a different formula of smokeless powder which Cordite was modified from.

[Legbreaker]

An interesting page...
http://benandbawbsblog.blogspot.com....e-grenade.html

[dude_uk]

Upon introduction of the SA80 in the late 1980's, Britain made purchase of the 'CLAW' (Close Light Assault Weapon) rifle grenade system. Probably because they thought it was cheaper than buying a 40mm grenade launcher.

It seems to have mainly seen action in the late 80's and early 90's. No sources seem to indicate its use in the 90's and it was phased out in favour of a HK 40mm launcher in time for the 2003 Iraq war. So i have no idea of its effectiveness.

Rumour has it a member of the 1st Royal Scots won a military medal for using one against an Iraqi APC during Gulf war 1 though!

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by dude_uk

Rumour has it a member of the 1st Royal Scots won a military medal for using one against an Iraqi APC during Gulf war 1 though!

Trust a Scotsman to attack armour using an antiquated weapon....
And succeed!

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by dude_uk

Rumour has it a member of the 1st Royal Scots won a military medal for using one against an Iraqi APC during Gulf war 1 though!

There were rumors during Desert Storm and for months afterwards that "some guy" had shot down a Hind with an M203. I dismissed that as "war stories," though if you were to hit a Hind just right -- at the lower rear fuselage where the oil tank and lubrication fluid reservoirs are -- you might take down a Hind with an M203. I just don't put much credence in it, especially it was always "some guy in 24th ID", "some guy in the 504th," etc.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Paul have you done anything with this type of weapon?

Nothing more than a few blurbs here and there, and you'll find some on the Rifle Grenades pages, particularly in the Russian, Polish, and Chinese entries.

In the T2K v2.2 timeline, the standard rifle grenades of Russia and the Warsaw Pact would in fact be these old relics. A few units might have BTU grenades that were reverse engineered or copied from blueprints, but not many.

Interesting fact: The US reverse-engineered the RKG-3M in the 1960s and added some improvements to the warhead and fuze. It was called a HAAG (Hand Anti-Armor Grenade). It got to the field testing phase, but the troops and their commanders didn't fancy getting close enough to a tank to actually use the HAAG.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

There were rumors during Desert Storm and for months afterwards that "some guy" had shot down a Hind with an M203. I dismissed that as "war stories," though if you were to hit a Hind just right -- at the lower rear fuselage where the oil tank and lubrication fluid reservoirs are -- you might take down a Hind with an M203. I just don't put much credence in it, especially it was always "some guy in 24th ID", "some guy in the 504th," etc.

I'd never heard that one. Seems like, if it were true, the story would be more well known. I suppose you could do it, though. Aside from the soft spot you mentioned, a 40mm HEDP grenade in the cockpit or in the engine area might do the trick as well.

I remember mentioning this before, and you have it on your site Paul (it's the 8th entry on the Google search results page!), but one of the odder modern rifle grenades is the RAW (Rifleman's Assault Weapon). It looks like a matte black, size 4 soccer ball mounted just below the muzzle brake/flash hider on an M-16. Here's a link to a couple of photos.

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmf...pon-raw.13190/

The USMC ordered a few back in the early '90s, but that was about it. Supposedly, it worked pretty well against fortifications and an anti-armor version was developed. I guess it was just too different, compared to more conventional LAW systems, and the Marines decided to go in another direction (the SMAW, I assume).

I suppose that the Twilight War could see the Pentagon ordering a bunch as a low-cost alternative to other light assault/AT rocket systems. Seems like it would be quite helpful in MOUT.

[Rockwolf66]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

There were rumors during Desert Storm and for months afterwards that "some guy" had shot down a Hind with an M203. I dismissed that as "war stories," though if you were to hit a Hind just right -- at the lower rear fuselage where the oil tank and lubrication fluid reservoirs are -- you might take down a Hind with an M203. I just don't put much credence in it, especially it was always "some guy in 24th ID", "some guy in the 504th," etc.

Sort of like there is a rumor that a Littlebird packing a GAU-19/A shot down another aircraft with it.

[Panther Al]

Heh.


Stories like that get brewed up more than anything else in war. There is always a story about some guy, with some thing, doing some action against this other thing. And its always from a buddy of a buddy.

Of course, its always entertaining, so no harm done, and it helps to separate the has done's from the wannabe's by who believes the stories and who doesn't.

[simonmark6]

Don't think the MM guy is a rumor though: I found this on tinternet:

M.M.
24780087 Private Thomas Robertson GOW,
The Royal Scots (The Royal Regiment).
On 26 February 1991, 1 Royal Scots Battle Group
was ordered to attack an enemy position in Southern
Iraq as part of 4th Armoured Brigade's thrust East. B
Company was tasked to assault a platoon objective
which was well established and dug in. A preliminary
phase of the operation had confirmed that there were
T-55 tanks in the area. The position was subjected to
an intense artillery bombardment which, combined
with a strong wind, produced appalling visibility.
Five Platoon of B Company carried out a rolling
assault on the northern end of the position whilst the
remainder of the company provided fire support. As
the attack proceeded it became apparent that at least
one of the vehicles was too well dug in to be reached by
Warrior Armoured Personnel Carriers.
Private Gow, who was acting as the section second
in command, immediately appreciated the situation
and saw that the momentum was being lost. On his
own initiative, he ordered his fire team to cover him
and crawled forward towards the vehicle. Despite the
fact that mines and bomblets had already exploded on
the objective, he got to a position within 20 metres of
the enemy vehicle and destroyed it with his Close
Assault Weapon and finished it off with a grenade. He
then followed up by charging two bunkers, clearing
them with grenades, without regard to the ammunition
exploding around him. He captured three officers and
four soldiers.
Private Gow had been in action for 24 hours and his
section had already been involved in an assault before.
The initiative, aggression and determination displayed
by this brave man during this action exceeded that
expected of his rank and experience.