Going Home: The Handout

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

I feel like it petered out towards the end, honestly.

This happens to the best of us.

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

what do troopers who show up at Bremen with serious illnesses do? (Quarantine tent, then on to a specially designated vessel staffed with medics in MOPP gear, I'd guess)

One wonders how many seriously ill soldiers are going to survive the trip.

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

What about foreign nationals? I think v1.0 answers this for us - a "US Division" might consist of Germans, Canadians, Poles, Englishmen, etc. etc.; I'd almost be tempted to say that if a CO gives them their bona fides and they wanna go to the US, they can board.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

What about defectors or POWs?

All former Pact foreign nationals will need someone to vouch for them. Ideally, this will be the unit commander. However, since many of the formations disintegrate en route to Bremerhaven, this might be a challenge. Doubtless, a J2 detachment will be responsible for locating officers or senior NCOs from the appropriate unit and getting their feedback.

POWs? Who is going to lug an EPW from Austria to Bremen? EPW in American hands prior to the move to Bremerhaven will be handed off to someone who isn’t about to depart for CONUS, released (yeah, right), liquidated, or co-opted. No foreign nationals are going to arrive at Bremerhaven in handcuffs, so to speak.

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

Alcohol? No way. Idiot oil in the hands of bored soldiers is a recipe for disaster.

To say nothing of troops with PTSD and anxiety about what awaits them in the US.

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

Shipboard stuff is being done by the navy. Wanna help out to kill boredom? Knock yourself out. See a deck officer.

Gambling? Again, knock yourself out. Get stupid, get thrown in the brig.

I like this thinking.

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

Prostitution's a no-no. Men and women are gonna be men and women but for the duration of the trip, no. I myself am not hyper-puritan or anything but in-game I can see the brass looking at the situation with a gimlet eye and worrying about the fact that where there's whores there are pimps and all the problems that could potentially come from a shipboard racket.

Gambling and prostitution are close cousins when it comes to inspiring stupid behavior and racketeering. I’m on the fence about this one. If there is anything of value going back in the pockets of the men, there will be gambling and prostitution. The real question is whether these things are open therefore regulated or forced to operate in the shadows. It all comes down to ship captains, since at sea they are the law.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

what do troopers who show up at Bremen with serious illnesses do? (Quarantine tent, then on to a specially designated vessel staffed with medics in MOPP gear, I'd guess)

MOPP gear doesn't work against biological agents -- including viruses and bacteria. It won't be of much help against a disease. This may sound cold, but if I were the commander of TF34, I might just leave anyone with disease symptoms behind. If some medical treatment is available, they might be given a certain amount of time to respond to treatment before being left behind. If you've been in close proximity to this person for a time, you might get left behind too.

And once the news of this sort of thing being done gets out, there might be rioting among the arrivals at Bremerhaven...

As for people who get sick en route, the ship they're on gets quarantined, it gets resupplied via a rope line between ships, and that ship becomes the permanent quarantine ship. Any more sick get sent there, and you don't get off until Norfolk, and then you go into quarantine there until they're sure you're not sick.

Biologically, you'll have to come up with some sort of decon and protection procedures, however, to allow for medical and maintenance personnel to enter and leave the ship affected.

[dude_uk]

Very Good document! Other than getting this information to the poor stragglers lost in Poland the only real thing I can see being a problem is the UK forces.

Wouldn't they be simply be directed to the closest BAOR unit? The British are according to canon reluctant to leave for another year or so. In order to keep their heavy equipmen and to possibly rob the local populace So will require all the available personnel.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by dude_uk

Very Good document! Other than getting this information to the poor stragglers lost in Poland the only real thing I can see being a problem is the UK forces.

Wouldn't they be simply be directed to the closest BAOR unit? The British are according to canon reluctant to leave for another year or so. In order to keep their heavy equipmen and to possibly rob the local populace So will require all the available personnel.

I'd imagine it's possible that once news of Omega became known the BAOR might sent a detachment up to Bremerhaven to try and identify any British troops arriving there with American units and arrange for them to rejoin British units elsewhere in Germany (willingly or otherwise).

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

I'd imagine it's possible that once news of Omega became known the BAOR might sent a detachment up to Bremerhaven to try and identify any British troops arriving there with American units and arrange for them to rejoin British units elsewhere in Germany (willingly or otherwise).

There's a British field engineer regiment there (at the least), so I suppose they could be the ones with that task.

[Legbreaker]

And we all know what the penalty is for desertion in wartime....

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

There's a British field engineer regiment there (at the least), so I suppose they could be the ones with that task.

Probably send some Military Police as well...I seem to remember the handout material in the module refers to Bremerhaven having a US Military Police contingent (there is reference to a Provost Marshall I think), so could see the Royal Military Police operating alongside their US counterparts to pick up any strays so to speak...

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

And we all know what the penalty is for desertion in wartime....

Doubt if they'd take much action against anyone who had got split up from his (or her!) unit for legit reasons, attached himself to an American one, and subsequently turns up at Bremerhaven.

However if said individual would rather cross the Atlantic with TF34 rather than rejoining the BAOR, I think that would be a different issue...

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

However if said individual would rather cross the Atlantic with TF34 rather than rejoining the BAOR, I think that would be a different issue...

And that's exactly what I was referring to. I'd imagine the Germans and other allied nations would have at least a collection point for their people in Bremerhaven too - only ex-PACT soldiers and civilians are likely to get a "free pass" to the US.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Couple answers to questions posed elsewhere - while I'd imagine during the weeks leading up to the actual departure copies of this document might find their way outside the Bremerhaven Perimeter, this is a boarding document troops and dependents get as soon as they get to the quayside. This isn't what goes out with the actual operational order. Heck MilGov might leak a few copies hoping to entice stubborn troops determined to become "mercenaries" to take a nice boat-ride. Food, medical treatment, berths - what's not to like?

The information about UK troops is a big gaffe on my part. For some reason, I thought UK troops left with US forces during Opord Omega. I definitely recall a stop-over in the UK but I think that was to retrieve a couple hundred surviving US troops in-country now that I think on it. So drop that section.

I think there's degrees of "serious illness" that could be defined. While in a post T2k setting, chicken pox or "common" influenza could be deadly I also don't think they'd be cause to leave people behind. Bubonic plague, typhus, cholera, things like that...yeah that's another matter but again given that there's going to be a period of time after troops arrive prior to departure, there will be a chance to deal with it as best as possible. There's going to be actual families/dependents showing up, and if little Hans has a fever and a suspicious rash under his arms, is LtC. Jones and wife (both of whom aren't sick) going to say "Oh, well, too bad I guess he'll have to stay here. Write us, son!") Doubtful.

Like I said I can see a "hospital ship" (just one vessel designated as such) where the ill would be sequestered, as much treatment given as feasible under the circumstances (I had no idea MOPP-4 gear didn't keep out biologicals), then once it arrives at Norfolk held offshore while military doctors assess and triage the ill. I just don't think they'd be left to die in Europe. Once word got out (and yes it would get out)...again, if you're talking about dependents, children, wives, etc. and the possibility of being left behind I can see a lot of problems there. So they'd likely go the hospital route.

And honestly? I don't see a HUGE number of walking sick anyway. Not to be brutal but if you've got the plague or cholera etc. and you get word with plenty of time to get across Germany...you won't survive the trip. On the off chance that you do, you'll be fine. Again, I'm not a doctor or military though.

[Webstral]

How German or British troops mixed in with American units are handled is an interesting question. There could be some ugly incidents if British or German MPs attempt to shanghai British or German soldiers serving with American units. If seasoned veterans want to stay in the service upon reaching US soil, Milgov has an incentive to support naturalizing them. I think a lot comes back to the say-so of the company or battalion commander. If the company commander says Private Bauer has been with us for more than a year and has completed the appropriate paperwork to apply for US citizenship, yada yada, then there's not a lot the Germans can do about it. Also, there must a hundred viable means of hiding the identity of a German national under these circumstances. Also, SACEUR can establish reciprocity ahead of time. The Germans are getting hundreds of AFV and tons of other equipment. "If you'd rather have a handful of German nationals than all these M1s, Bradleys, M113s, trucks, guns, stills, tools, crates of ammunition, tents, and unused fuel, then we'll honor your decision and set these thermite grenades right away. No skin off our noses, Hans."

The Brits are a bit tougher, but the same basic logic applies. Corporal Blake has been with the unit since '99, and he has submitted the appropriate documentation to apply for US citizenship. If you'd rather have him and his mates than the gear the USAF is going to leave in Ol' Blighty, then we'll just radio ahead and have them set thermite grenades... Again, this is something SACEUR will address ahead of time, since we can be certain that the Germans and Brits will want to reclaim as many of their own people as possible.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Webstral

Also, there must a hundred viable means of hiding the identity of a German national under these circumstances.

I think this is probably the key point...I wouldn't have thought either the British or the Germans are going to have the ability to physically check any more than a handful of the 43,000 troops headed into Bremerhaven for any potential "stowaways", so I think so long as any British or German troops arriving with US units don't stand out they'll be OK. In other words, if an American unit turns up with half a dozen Fusiliers wearing DPM and their Regimental berets (down to the red and white hackle) said Fusiliers may stand a chance of being noticed by British MP's. However if the same Fusiliers turn up in American BDU's, keep their heads down and their mouths shut, in all likliehood the British MP's would never know they were there.

American officers arriving at Bremerhaven may be under orders to "turn over" any UK / FRG personnel under their command, but realistically how many are going to obey that order if, as you say, Private Bauer / Corporal Blake has been a valued member of their unit for some time? Chances are not many I think.

To be honest, I think the chances are any BAOR / FRG "liasion and repatriation teams" are probably only really going to be on the lookout for any nationals who want to rejoin their own forces...trying to catch any who don't would be like hunting for the proverbial needle in the haystack and in all likliehood not worth the hassle and as you say could lead to some ugly incidents.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I can't believe it's been three years since I wrote this. Did anyone ever use it or any part of it?