OT: Emergency Kits

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by Targan

So you have a permit to carry or are you permitted to keep a firearm in your vehicle in your state?

As Al says, it varies. Some states do allow you to keep a loaded firearm accessible in your vehicle, but not all. The safest thing to do as a civilian is to get a concealed carry license... and then only drive into states with which your home state has reciprocity.

(Serving or retired law enforcement officers have considerably more latitude under LEOSA, which entitles them to carry concealed just about anywhere if they meet certain prerequisites and has federal preemption for state laws.)

- C.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

As Al says, it varies. Some states do allow you to keep a loaded firearm accessible in your vehicle, but not all. The safest thing to do as a civilian is to get a concealed carry license... and then only drive into states with which your home state has reciprocity.

Wow, Teg, it's almost like you can read my mind . My next question was to be about the implications of crossing state lines with a licensed, concealed weapon or a weapon in the glove box or under the seat of your vehicle. So it's all about individual states and their laws and reciprocal agreements with neighbouring states?

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by Targan

Wow, Teg, it's almost like you can read my mind . My next question was to be about the implications of crossing state lines with a licensed, concealed weapon or a weapon in the glove box or under the seat of your vehicle. So it's all about individual states and their laws and reciprocal agreements with neighbouring states?

Correct. In the U.S., we have several levels of laws regarding firearms.

The highest is federal, which regulates import/export, production, retail purchases (under the "interstate commerce" clause), and "NFA items." NFA stands for the National Firearms Act of 1934, which made certain classes of weapon illegal for civilian ownership without registration and a tax, paid at each instance of manufacture and change of ownership. Those classes are "machine guns" (fully automatic weapons), SBRs (Short-Barreled Rifles, those with barrels under 16"), SBSes (Short-Barreled Shotguns, those with barrels under 18"), suppressors/silencers, "destructive devices" (explosives, poison gas, and anything but a shotgun with a bore diameter greater than 0.5 inch), and AOWs (Any Other Weapon, which mainly includes micro-shotguns like the Serbu Super Shorty and disguised firearms like pen guns). Federal law also establishes a list of federal properties onto which you can't carry a weapon.

Finally, relevant to your question, federal law establishes the standard for legal transport (but not personal carry) of a firearm anywhere in the United States: unloaded, in a locked case, separate from ammunition, and not accessible from the vehicle's passenger compartment. Note that some jurisdictions (notably New York and New Jersey) refuse to recognize this law unless sued for false arrest, but it's generally safe in most other states. Also note that this is the "legal anywhere" standard, but most states are more permissive in the mode of carry or transport they allow.

State laws vary widely, based on the history and political climate of each state. Some states place additional restrictions on the purchase process for firearms (registration, waiting periods, additional taxes, purchase licenses, and/or restrictions on weapon features or magazine capacity). Others do not. Concealed carry licensing also is a state-level function. Currently, 49 of the 50 states have some form of concealed carry laws, but there is no uniform standard for how hard or expensive it is to get. Also, there is no federal mandate for reciprocity, so some states will recognize any other state's concealed carry licenses while others will not.

The third potential level of firearm law occurs at the local or county level. This is not universal. Many states have state preemption laws, which forbid their subordinate jurisdictions from passing more restrictive laws. Some, however, do not. These preemption laws are generally regarded as a good thing because they prevent travelers from inadvertently breaking local law during the course of an otherwise-innocent journey.

(Notably for the original purposes of this discussion, there is no federal law on concealed carry licensing, outside of the aforementioned LEOSA. There is a bill in progress to force all states with concealed carry licenses to grant reciprocity to all other such states, which would theoretically allow legal concealed carry everywhere but Illinois. Its fate, however, is uncertain.)

- C.

[weswood]

There's a couple different terms of issuance, based on the different states' political climate. There's "May Issue" which I gather is based upon the requestor proving they need to carry concealed, "Shall Issue" where all the individual has to do is prove he's had training and a background check, and No Issuance where it's illegal for civilians to carry. Most states have reprocity honoring other states CHLs.

Here in Texas a CHL requires 10 hours of training and a background check. Texas seems to be the most expensive, a Concealed Handgun License runs $140 for the initial CHL, good for 5 years. Renewal runs $70 per 5 years. (Veterans get 1/2 price). It's also legal to carry a loaded handgun in your vehicle. It's an extension of the "Castle Doctrine", under the belief your vehicle is an extension of your home.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

Al - citation? My reading of BATFE regs and rulings suggests that placing a formerly pistol-configured weapon on the NFA registry as an SBR (e.g. Form 1 registration of an AR or SIG 556 pistol) makes it legally a rifle, not a pistol, because the Form 1 records the act of "manufacturing" the SBR. It may be possible to return it to legal "pistol" status by (1) removing it from the registry and (2) removing the stock, but I wouldn't want to gamble on that.

- C.

Its a little fuzzy, but the way it worked in the cases I know of falls under the rule in Michigan that any rifle that has an overall length under 30" has to be registered locally as a pistol. Even though its a rifle. The Feds consider anything under 26" as a pistol - though as you say, once you get into the SBR realm things get a little weird. If I was to do it, I would stick with a foreward grip over a stock, but even that has to be done under the SBR rules. Don't know if you can find a way to fit it under the AOW catagory - somehow I doubt it. As it stands, in this occasion, yes, the Feds say Rifle. And Yes, the locals say Pistol. So.... a mess. Falls into who you know and who you are unless something goes really sideways.

Really, once you start getting into the NFA realm, you really have to have a legal eagle on your side sorting through the morass of various laws: it isn't something you can go alone safely in my opinion.

[DocSavage45B10]

On the other hand Texas has reciprocity with Utah, who grants permits out of state...

And there's the travelling law bit, which covers your car gun.

Originally Posted by weswood

Here in Texas a CHL requires 10 hours of training and a background check. Texas seems to be the most expensive, a Concealed Handgun License runs $140 for the initial CHL, good for 5 years. Renewal runs $70 per 5 years. (Veterans get 1/2 price). It's also legal to carry a loaded handgun in your vehicle. It's an extension of the "Castle Doctrine", under the belief your vehicle is an extension of your home.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

Weapons pose a REAL problem for me since I work on Fort Bragg. The MP's FROWN on personal weapons

Frown or illegal? I mean if you have a permit what the problem, In the Canadian Military no one occuping miltary housing can have any weapons stored in said housing, so you store it with the MP or off base.

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Frown or illegal? I mean if you have a permit what the problem, In the Canadian Military no one occuping miltary housing can have any weapons stored in said housing, so you store it with the MP or off base.

As in illegal. You can not have/transport/whatever any weapon on or through Fort Bragg. I used the word "frown" but ment otherwise. Yes I have a pass and ID to enter base. However still liable to random search at MP's whim. Even if personal weapon is locked in trunk, not allowed.

There was a series of articles in the local paper a few years ago. People who live in Fayetteville, and belong to a gun club in Spring Lake. TO get from one to the other, the most direct route is through Ft Bragg. Well guess what. You are not allowed to carry. If Stopped by MP's, Federal crime. Soon, (Approx 2014) this route from Fayetteville to Spring Lake will be closed. Even the alternate route now under construction goes through part of Fort Bragg.

This is the source of my comment in the thread on Emergency Kits. IF the balloon goes up, and I am at work, yes I have food, water, blankets. As I try to get home, I would not have anything more dangerous than the spare tire iron I carry in the trunk.

BTW, this ASSUMES that I can get off of Fort Bragg. During 9/11, no one on or off of Fort Bragg. THank God, the wife was not working that day and I was at another job.

My $0.02

Mike

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by weswood

Here in Texas a CHL requires 10 hours of training and a background check. Texas seems to be the most expensive, a Concealed Handgun License runs $140 for the initial CHL, good for 5 years. Renewal runs $70 per 5 years. (Veterans get 1/2 price). It's also legal to carry a loaded handgun in your vehicle. It's an extension of the "Castle Doctrine", under the belief your vehicle is an extension of your home.

Unfortunately, in Texas, the mentally ill cannot own any firearm, regardless of how well controlled their illness is. And I have on my record one attempt of suicide by a firearm, so they're definitely going to try to protect me from myself.

So my weapons to defend my home consist of caustic household cleaners, kitchen knives and implements, heavy tools, and a bad ornamental wakizashi of questionable strength. It doesn't have an edge and won't take much of one, but it is nice and pointy, looks mean in the dark, and I know some basic fencing moves. Worth nothing if my opponent has a gun and has spotted me.