Ammonia!

[TrailerParkJawa]

Originally Posted by Graebarde

Muscle powered agriculture will NOT be oxen or horses in general for at least FOUR years after the demise of the tractor. It takes that long to get an ox or horse mature enough and trained to do real work. IF you try too young, and the pleasure horse people are really bad about this, they have not developed their skeletal or muscles to handle the loads and you will either kill or maime them, and your back to YOUR muscles again. As for heavy horses, while their number and popularity are on the rise, their number nationally is very low. I fear most animals on farms would wind up as burgers for the ignorant starving mass of locust from the cities, as will seed grains etc..

But that is a different thread.

That's good to know. Honestly never gave it any thought. I'm sure it's more common knowledge in Asia but here int the US probably less so.

[Legbreaker]

"Standard" transmission in most parts of the world is manual rather than automatic.

I read "Fade out" by Patrick Tilley a few years back which involves aliens playing about with the electrical field of the planet to stop anything stronger than the electrical signals in a living creature working. Computers, radios, electric lights, cars, everything just stopped. Only older diesel engines were able to continue operating and were started using a sort of preloaded cartridge to turn the engine over (it's been a few years, the details are sketchy).

A good read which I think shows just how primitive things can be when EMP gets nasty.

[DocSavage45B10]

The impression I get from relatives and aquaintences with time in the chair force is that EMP is highly overrated in pop media.

[Webstral]

I hope we don't find out whether EMP is overrated or underrated.

[Webstral]

Without horses or tractors to pull plows, there will be a lot of intensive gardening agriculture. It's a lot of work, but it will keep people alive through the early parts of the recovery. It also means that when 1000 troops arrive in town (hopefully Milgov restoring order), the local tough guys will be seriously outnumbered.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by DocSavage45B10

The impression I get from relatives and acquaintances with time in the chair force is that EMP is highly overrated in pop media.

It is, but that's one of the foundation elements of T2K - that EMP effects are much nastier than IRL. Without the EMP, the world in general in a T2K scenario is in much better shape and therefore less of a post apocalyptic hell.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

It is, but that's one of the foundation elements of T2K - that EMP effects are much nastier than IRL. Without the EMP, the world in general in a T2K scenario is in much better shape and therefore less of a post apocalyptic hell.

We still don't really know for certain though, do we? When someone detonates a decent-sized nuke 50kms above an industrialised part of a developed nation, then we'll be able to accurately extrapolate what would've happened in the T2K universe.

[Legbreaker]

That's right. There's been tests which seem to indicate EMP won't be too much of a problem, but until it happens.....

[Graebarde]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

"Standard" transmission in most parts of the world is manual rather than automatic.

I read "Fade out" by Patrick Tilley a few years back which involves aliens playing about with the electrical field of the planet to stop anything stronger than the electrical signals in a living creature working. Computers, radios, electric lights, cars, everything just stopped. Only older diesel engines were able to continue operating and were started using a sort of preloaded cartridge to turn the engine over (it's been a few years, the details are sketchy).

A good read which I think shows just how primitive things can be when EMP gets nasty.

Well I agree with *standard* being manual rather than automatic, however in the US there are many more autos than manuals already by the time line.

I just thought of the big Cat engine we used on the irrigation pump at the research station I worked at in the late 80s-early 90s (in Beeville TX no less). It had a large collection tank that we filled with the pressurized gas (explosive I might add). when the tank was full and engine set for start we hit a lever which released the gas which spun the engine instead of a regular electirc starter. If you were lucky the engine started on the first go, else it took ten to fifteen minutes to get it ready for the next try. We serviced the engine without shuting it down usually, but only when we were doing full irrigation. (and that was MOST of the time) Compressed air would work as well. But the gas was *free* since the state could use as much of the gas as they wanted from the well on the state land. Nice agreement if you can get it.

As for the book, I'll have to find it. Sounds very much like Dies the Fires with aliens mucking up the works, though nobody knows who did the change, only that it corrupted physics as we know it, as well as some chemistry.

[Legbreaker]

My grandfathers old D4 Dozer originally built in the late 40's/early 50's had two starter motors. The first (electric) started the diesel starter which was used to turn over the main engine. Took a few minutes with that to work the oil around before the ignition was finally kicked in. The diesel starter was a deafening beast too - ended up ripping a muffler off an old wrecked Torana and installing it. Either that or blow the eardrums since the exhaust was only a few feet from the operator!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Torana
I vaguely recall seeing (could be wrong) provision for a starter crank as well but never saw it used. Hope it was for the smaller motor!

[DocSavage45B10]

Amen.

Originally Posted by Webstral

I hope we don't find out whether EMP is overrated or underrated.