Contact pack

[ArmySGT.]

I have been to Bass Pro, Cabela's, REI, Sportsman's warehouse, Big 5, and several other large chains here locally. Then there is plenty of small business outdoor or army/navy surplus shops too.

Heck, I get used camping gear at yardsales and Good will. Sometimes it is in excellent shape.

[stormlion1]

I have got to move out west...

[kato13]

So what do we think makes a contact kit more realistic.

3 or 4 16/20 oz soda bottles.
A piece of metal wrapped in duct tape for an improvised knife.
the last 100 pages of a paper back book. (used as toilet paper)
A buckskin wrap containing 14 oz of smoked dried meat.
A tupperware container filled with peanuts.
A film container containing 1/2 oz cannabis with small wood carved pipe.

[RandyT0001]

Originally Posted by kato13

So what do we think makes a contact kit more realistic.

3 or 4 16/20 oz soda bottles.
A piece of metal wrapped in duct tape for an improvised knife.
the last 100 pages of a paper back book. (used as toilet paper)
A buckskin wrap containing 14 oz of smoked dried meat.
A tupperware container filled with peanuts.
A film container containing 12 oz cannabis.
A six foot long, 2in diameter hollow bamboo bong/walking stick, a heirloom of the Vietnam war.

Made the necessary corrections.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

Not here on the East Coast or at least South Jersey. People who enjoy the outdoors are a minority and those equipped for it even more so.

There are a few important points being missed here, I think.

1) The war will kill a lot of people and destroy or render unusable a great deal of equipment, but considering that many of the deaths will occur post-nukes and that most "outdoor equipment" will be in rural areas away from targeted sites, the amount of such equipment available per person should be greater than it is now.

2) Someone without the appropriate gear simply isn't travelling, especially alone. You're not making a cross-country journey on foot with refilled Dasani bottles (if any are still intact) - if that is all you have, you're staying put, or travelling as a refugee group if absolutely necessary. Your gear may not be pretty or well-integrated, but it will be functional and will cover all the basics.

3) At the time the contact pack is meant to be used, survivors will have had five years to loot National Guard armories, Army/Navy stores, and sporting goods suppliers. While a refugee in the first months might be wandering around with a partial kit, at this point everyone has either assembled a functional set of survival tools... or died.

Oh, and everything I mentioned about gear applies to skills, too - the survivors 5 years in will either have had those skills to begin with, or would by necessity have acquired them in the interim. A lone, poorly equipped, unskilled traveler 5 years in would almost certainly be held in high suspicion.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by kato13

3 or 4 16/20 oz soda bottles.

Too flimsy, would be very suspicious to me. Heck, they might not even exist at this point.

Originally Posted by kato13

A piece of metal wrapped in duct tape for an improvised knife.

Were they a prisoner? There are something like 10 knives for every person now, 5 years PA there should be a surfeit of knives.

Originally Posted by kato13

the last 100 pages of a paper back book. (used as toilet paper)

Plausible enough.

Originally Posted by kato13

A buckskin wrap containing 14 oz of smoked dried meat.

Sure, why not.

Originally Posted by kato13

A tupperware container filled with peanuts.

If they are near places peanuts are produced, sure... but otherwise, those peanuts would have gone bad years ago. And MP personnel don't generally know where they are being frozen.

Originally Posted by kato13

A film container containing 1/2 oz cannabis with small wood carved pipe.

Possibly, but it this something TMP would issue?

[kato13]

I have PET bottles I have used for 5 years. Several of which have gone through multiple freezing cycles. When the cap is tight the pressure keeps the form pretty well (air or water). That might keep them from getting crushed.

Peanuts are grown in about a third of the country

That might expand after the war due to peanuts fixing nitrogen (a good replacement for fertilizer).

You could have a dozen different food types and you eat the ones that don't match the area.

I want the kit to allow for various options. The improvised knife is if you are playing someone who lost things that were more dangerous.

As to the cannabis that is exactly the point. I doesn't look like something a military person would have and it has trade value.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by kato13

I have PET bottles I have used for 5 years. Several of which have gone through multiple freezing cycles. When the cap is tight the pressure keeps the form pretty well (air or water). That might keep them from getting crushed.

That's great but that still doesn't make them a great bet. You weren't carrying them on your person in a post-apocalyptic environment. They're a bad bet to last, and anyone relying on them for water is going to stick out.

Originally Posted by kato13

Peanuts are grown in about a third of the country

Which just means that they aren't grown in the other two thirds.

Originally Posted by kato13

That might expand after the war due to peanuts fixing nitrogen (a good replacement for fertilizer).

In the long term, sure, but 5 years post-apocalypse they are not likely making much progress on this front. If anything, the presumption should be that agriculture as a whole is in terrible shape, not that it has expanded!

Originally Posted by kato13

You could have a dozen different food types and you eat the ones that don't match the area.

Or you could just give them a selection of pre-war canned goods. They would still be good and you could always say you found them in some abandoned house en route.

Originally Posted by kato13

I want the kit to allow for various options. The improvised knife is if you are playing someone who lost things that were more dangerous.

It isn't a spy kit, and MP team members don't have spy training! Making a complicated story or giving complicated options is a great way to trip someone up.

Originally Posted by kato13

As to the cannabis that is exactly the point. I doesn't look like something a military person would have and it has trade value.

It does, but my concern is that the greatest value of this would be in sharing it... literally. Like, "let's smoke some weed together, friend!" It seems like whisky or some other potable would be easier to explain, justify, and use.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by kato13

So what do we think makes a contact kit more realistic.

practical elements and that impractical touch that spells out personal flair. A sweat shirt from the university that you attended possibly.

Originally Posted by kato13

3 or 4 16/20 oz soda bottles.

Sure, I used a one liter Mt Dew bottle on my mountain bike for two years. My nice water bottle was stolen off my bike and no one wanted that soda bottle.

Originally Posted by kato13

A piece of metal wrapped in duct tape for an improvised knife.

I would think that every where you went would be knives of all kinds just laying on shelves or in drawers. Were you thinking of this as a weapon perhaps? A lawn mower blade made into a weapon?

Originally Posted by kato13

the last 100 pages of a paper back book. (used as toilet paper)

Phone books, catalogs went to gloss paper! Yes, finding a roll of charmin post mutual annihilation is going to ultra rare.

Originally Posted by kato13

A buckskin wrap containing 14 oz of smoked dried meat.

If you have the skinning and butchering tools plus the know how to do it. Otherwise you need to have an explanation for what you traded for it.

Originally Posted by kato13

A tupperware container filled with peanuts.

Which are all over in every gas station, convenience store, grocery store, and flea market. Peanuts are dirt cheap protein and plant oils.. The shelf life sucks though because of the fats and oils.

Originally Posted by kato13

A film container containing 1/2 oz cannabis with small wood carved pipe.

Or raw vodka or whiskey, even some over the counter meds like valium. If the PC is willing to consume it sure. The PC might need to operate undercover and evaluate a refugee group for days to determine what aid is appropriate.

[kato13]

I had not thought of a pretty well worn bike as an option. That might make sense in some areas.

[stormlion1]

The best bet is to go with KISS. Keep it Simple Stupid! A mix of civvie and military gear. A civvie backpack, perhaps a simple rifle and pistol. Military canteen on a leather belt. Couple of military pouches and civvie clothes. Make it look like the contact person put his gear together over five years but not that it all came from one source.

[RandyT0001]

The problem really isn't the equipment carried but the fact that the contact person is going to walk into a community without knowing anything about the surrounding villages, homesteads, etc. that he would have to have travelled through to get to the community.

"How did you make it past Ashland?" asked the local, pointing down the trail, road, direction from whence he came, "Dem slavers always taking our kin. You a spy?"
Or
"You come from that way through Ashland?" asked the local. "Yeah, they got a good sheriff protecting them. He keeps the slavers out. Oh, by the way, turn around and put yer hands up, slave."

MP expects a contact person to be frozen, miss five years of changes, then wake up and interact with survivors as a fellow survivor. And not get captured or shot because the lack of knowledge raises suspicions? How badly out of touch the contact person becomes 150 years after the bombs.

What module had the contact pack? The Starnman one where the locals hate Morrow Project people because of some imposters from decades before had done bad things to them? I always had the feeling that the contact pack was included as an afterthought, following feedback from playtesters about how is a team supposed to approach the locals when all they have to wear is MP jumpsuits, unless they steal the clothes.

Just my take on it.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by RandyT0001

The problem really isn't the equipment carried but the fact that the contact person is going to walk into a community without knowing anything about the surrounding villages, homesteads, etc. that he would have to have travelled through to get to the community.

Realistically there is little that can be done otherwise.

There is only two solutions to using the contact pack without just walking in cold.

One is to build a hide and observe a village, camp, or group without being discovered yourself for a period of time you think is sufficient. That means around the clock 24/7 shifts in a camouflaged hide. I can think of two instances of grand scale fail for SF teams in Iraq (91) and Afghanistan (05?) that only air strikes and helo extraction saved some members. Both were uncovered by goat herders.

Second solution is to pose as someone lost or with something to trade and make contacts on the roads to get information about the local groups before contact. Combine this with signals intelligence which would have worked in the 3-5 year plan for more.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

One is to build a hide and observe a village, camp, or group without being discovered yourself for a period of time you think is sufficient. That means around the clock 24/7 shifts in a camouflaged hide. I can think of two instances of grand scale fail for SF teams in Iraq (91) and Afghanistan (05?) that only air strikes and helo extraction saved some members. Both were uncovered by goat herders.

I have considered this. My thought was that after initial recon (satellite/balloon/rpv) looking for major settlements, the first teams to wake would be 8 sets of two man recon/sniper teams per region. A regional MH-6 team of 2 aircraft would also wake.

The aircraft (with massive sound reduction) would place the recon teams 6-8 miles from said settlement at night. 2 teams would be placed per night and they would observe for 4-5 days before being picked up. I admit this is only a raw idea and I have not researched SF insertions so I am certainly open to suggestions.

My thought is that the teams could place themselves in a position to watch main roads into the city. They could scan radio frequencies and attempt to observe things like technology levels. After the observation they could be brought in for debrief and R&R before the next mission.

At least some of the information they glean could be passed onto contact specialists. This might allow them to bluff a little better.

"Yeah I came from up North. The convoy I was in bypassed the City by the two rivers, you say it is called "Hobart", looked like an interesting place, they used windmills for something or another, I saw at least a half dozen of them."

[kalos72]

Thermal scanning for heat signatures could give rough population on the smaller towns. Even just scanning the countryside could produce alot of information.

This is VERY similar to what my team in T2K is doing as they expand.

We have thought about the "traveling merchant" approach but cant quite figure out how to make it work without getting jacked each time we roll into town.

[stormlion1]

Main problem with all of this is time and resources. A Morrow Team has little of both. They have what they can carry and honestly while there vehicle can keep going barring an accident they will run short of food eventually and the teams are not made of badass Special Forces. These are ordinary people given some training and let loose. There not going to have the training or time to observe a town or village, there gonna have 24-72 hours before they need to make a decision. And the only way to get that is to go in or use more direct means. Like kidnapping that sheepherder and pumping him/her for information or looking for the few merchants on the road and asking them for a lay of the land. The lovely toys like satellites and GPS just won't be there. Even Drones as small as they are today come with a price of power time before they need recharging. Make them big and they take up space needed for other gear.

[kato13]

I realize that in the game the teams don't have all the equipment and synergy that the project was designed to have, but the plan should expect things to work and should do all it can to protect its resources.

Even though I never plan my project to fail there was a game logic to my 2 man teams, it would allow for a character replacement without the team getting all the equipment from another bolthole.

[cosmicfish]

One simple tactical solution is to claim to be lost.

"We were travelling on foot with a small group from the outskirts of Big City on the way to Other Big City because of Reasons. About a week ago, our guide and a few others died due to Tragic Accident, leaving us short of equipment and with minimal guidance. We've been walking roughly Direction for the past week, but with so few of us left we've been trying to lay low and avoid contact as much as possible. Can you tell us where the <censored> we are, and maybe sell us some food?"

Regardless, we no longer seem to be talking about the actual Contact Pack.

[stormlion1]

OK, went camping this weekend with some friends and looked to see what everyone had. My buddy Gunther had a Marine Corp pack with a civvie canteen and a good sleeping bag, two days of food and one change of clothes. No tent, his wife Angie had a really old (I swear it was made in the 60's!) civvie pack with tent, bedroll, clothes, cooking gear, and a days worth of food and no canteen. Jen came with only a small pack and a bedroll and only a single days worth of food, a small two man tent and a small water bottle on a string attached to her pack. My own gear was about 60 pounds of gear and had everything but weapons. By and large that's what I expect refugees and early apocalypse survivors to scrounge up.

For the record. Solo Stove. Best buy I ever made.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

By and large that's what I expect refugees and early apocalypse survivors to scrounge up.

The Contact Pack was designed to fit in 5 years (is that the planned wake-up time?) after the war. They aren't going to be "early apocalypse survivors" at that point, they are going to be well-seasoned and equipped travelers. They could be refugees, but then the question becomes, "refugees from what?" Don't want to cause a panic as they look for pursuing invaders, or undercut your story when those invaders don't appear!

[stormlion1]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

The Contact Pack was designed to fit in 5 years (is that the planned wake-up time?) after the war. They aren't going to be "early apocalypse survivors" at that point, they are going to be well-seasoned and equipped travelers. They could be refugees, but then the question becomes, "refugees from what?" Don't want to cause a panic as they look for pursuing invaders, or undercut your story when those invaders don't appear!

Yes, five years was planned wake up time. As for well seasoned and equipped I kind of doubt part of that. Most gear will be worn down with constant use and pretty patchwork and patched up. Most gear isn't all that well made afterall unless you spend a lot of money on it. Heck most common sleeping bags are rated for about 40 degree's. Not the best thing for cold winter nights unless your going to modify it somehow. A contact team that shows up with good looking gear and clothes will stick out more than a seasoned traveler with patchwork gear.

[cosmicfish]

I agree that there will be wear, but considering the relative post-apocalyptic durability of equipment compared to people, I don't think it needs to be excessive - it isn't that unreasonable to be worn but still fully functional. And more importantly, the equipment they have will be reasonably complete. As I mentioned up-thread, five years post war the vast majority of people will be where they need to be and will have little incentive to travel on foot cross-country with inadequate gear. They will either stay where they are or get a complete kit.

[RandyT0001]

Realistic contact pack

hiking boots
khaki pants
light color (white, light blue, etc.) polo shirt with embroidered logo on left chest
bright colored (red, orange, lime green, etc.) windbreaker with silkscreen logo on the left chest and silkscreen printed "Disaster Relief" or "Disaster Assesment" on the back
point and shoot digital camera
storage clipboard with extra pens and scores of claim forms
hundreds of business cards
reuseable, refillable plastic water bottle with an attached cross chest lanyard

The logos are those affliated with various insurance companies.

The contact person can now walk out of the trees and present himself as an insurance claims agent doing follow up claims from the nuclear disaster five years ago.

[stormlion1]

Originally Posted by RandyT0001

Realistic contact pack

hiking boots
khaki pants
light color (white, light blue, etc.) polo shirt with embroidered logo on left chest
bright colored (red, orange, lime green, etc.) windbreaker with silkscreen logo on the left chest and silkscreen printed "Disaster Relief" or "Disaster Assesment" on the back
point and shoot digital camera
storage clipboard with extra pens and scores of claim forms
hundreds of business cards
reuseable, refillable plastic water bottle with an attached cross chest lanyard

The logos are those affliated with various insurance companies.

The contact person can now walk out of the trees and present himself as an insurance claims agent doing follow up claims from the nuclear disaster five years ago.

Now that would be useful for a HILARIOUS scenario!

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

Now that would be useful for a HILARIOUS scenario!

<Local sheriff/magistrate/elder> An _insurance_ auditor????
<Local scout> Yeah, that's when we shot him, yer honor.

[RandyT0001]

TIP

The Insurers Project

I just had to do this.

[bobcat]

for a contact pack i typically go with:
1 civilian hiking pack
1 8'x6' tarp
4 tent stakes
100' of 550 cord
2 carabiners
1 military style 1qt canteen with cup
80 beef bullion cubes
1 can opener
2 cans of soup
3 ears of corn
1 flask of whiskey
1 military poncho liner
1 multitool
1 Savage Axis .223
50 rounds of loose ammo

as for approach i would have my recon teams conduct an area recon before sending anyone to make direct contact. that way they don't send their face-man into a slaver town or worse. this would also allow them to speak with any hunting parties before entering the town to gather further valuable data.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by kato13

I took the kits contents from Operation Lucifer but I admit it is a little light.

I think we could add some the following as many are pretty small (these are items in my personal equipment packs as well)

Canteen 1 Liter Colapasable
Canteen 1 Liter Cover
Canteen 2 Liter
Canteen 2 Liter Cover
Canteen Cup & stand
Bath Tissue 2-Ply 550sheet, Roll
Mess Kit (Stainless KFS,pan,tray)
Knfie fork spoon
Mess Kit Bag
Can Opener (P-38) x 2
Bungee Cord x 2
Shelter Half
Wool Blanket
Single Edged Razor Blade x 10
Boot Knife
Swiss Army Knife
Leather Man tool (Pliers)
Leatherman Micra (Scissors)
Cigarette Lighter (Multifuel)
Magnesium Fire Starter
Lensatic Sighting Compass
Small Arms Cleaning Kit
Deck of Cards (Paper Box)
Die x2
Pencil x 3
Tactical Memo Book (3.5" x 6" / 60 pages)
Super Glue, Tube 3g .10 oz
Personal Defense Spray
Small Sewing Kit
Pacer Beads
Mini Binoculars

You might even add a few coins or other items from the trade packs depending on the situation.

Minor details like a mix of civvie, military and Scouting stuff.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by bobcat

for a contact pack i typically go with:
1 civilian hiking pack
1 8'x6' tarp
4 tent stakes
100' of 550 cord
2 carabiners
1 military style 1qt canteen with cup
80 beef bullion cubes
1 can opener
2 cans of soup
3 ears of corn
1 flask of whiskey
1 military poncho liner
1 multitool
1 Savage Axis .223
50 rounds of loose ammo

as for approach i would have my recon teams conduct an area recon before sending anyone to make direct contact. that way they don't send their face-man into a slaver town or worse. this would also allow them to speak with any hunting parties before entering the town to gather further valuable data.

Some prewar hunting gear would be a nice touch for cover, until they meet lower tech survivors. My "Cooperstown" was an attempt to keep experienced PC's guessing with a 1940's-50's vibe.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

I have got to move out west...

Season is ramping up..... Come in the end of August or first part of September and clean up at yard sales.

I have kerosene railroad lantern that I bought for $3.00 and a coleman 4 burn for $10.00.