Return to the bad old days?

[TiggerCCW UK]

I was just talking to my wife on the phone (she's at work, I'm off today, at home with the little lady) and I think she summed up peoples feelings here very well. She remarked that its only in the last year or so that we started thinking that any news reports about bombings that didn't immediately state where they were might actually be in another country. We'd become so indoctrinated to the news here being about bombings in NI that any report that started 'A bomb has exploded' or 'X people killed and injured in an explosion' was automatically assumed to be local news, even though it was normally Iraq or Afghanistan. This is changing a lot of peoples out looks. Another factor that worries me is that a lot of the security apparatus here was dismantled with almost indecent haste in the rush to make life normal again. A lot of peelers were paid off, as were a lot of the Royal Irish home service guys - the police station in my village is part time, only open for an hour in the evening Monday to Friday, and closed completely at the weekends. I hope that the powers that be aren't proven to have been to hasty in this.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

Again apologies to anyone that I'm upsetting by ranting about this. I find it helps me get my head round the situation by writing it down on here. If you're all fed up with my moaning by all means tell me to foxtrot oscar.

Tigger, others have said it but just to reiterate the point...

No need for apologies mate...you've nothing to apologise for...

[General Pain]

Originally Posted by kato13

I would rather keep the pure political talk to a minimum. Passions regarding Obama run high on both sides.

I totally agree, beeing against both demo-crazy and religion , I'm going to stay out of said argument.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Martin McGuinness (current deputy first minister of the NI assembly, former commander of the IRA in Londonderry, rumoured former member of the IRA's Army Council) has just requested that republicans assist the police to apprehend the killers of the soldiers and the policeman last night, and he called the killers traitors to the island of Ireland. Pretty earth shattering stuff given some of the things the provo's condoned in the past. Looks like the politicians are serious about stopping the wheels from dropping off completely.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Just seen a local news flash. An 18 year old male has been arrested in connection with last nights shooting. No other information at the minute, but its a promising sign.

[Rainbow Six]

That seems to me to be a very strong statement for Martin McGuiness to make, particularly the part about the killers being traitors to the island of Ireland.

I must admit that I've been wondering since I first heard about all of this whether or not the Provisionals would try to deal with the matter themselves(i.e catch the killers, drive to a quiet spot and shoot them).

[TiggerCCW UK]

Its a bold statement for him to make, but one he had to otherwise the assembly would have become unworkable. I do genuinely believe that Sinn Fein are doing what they can to keep things on track. I don't know that the provos would go as far as topping the dissidents, but I do believe they'll be bringing a lot of pressure to bear on them.

[Legbreaker]

Heard a couple of hours ago a second person has been arrested in connection with the Police shooting. Maybe the 18 yr old rolled over?

And now to release the conspiracy nut in me...

What if certain elements supporting reconciliation and an end to the troubles were behind the initial attack? What if it was felt by some that the movement towards peace wasn't happening quickly enough and that there were still deep divisions in the people?

What better than a shared tragedy, condemnable by all, to bind everyone together?

An unspeakably evil act and highly unlikely, but sometimes conspiracy theories are right....

Personally I believe it is extremists behind both attacks, but what I can't figure out is what they hope to achieve in the mid to long term? If it was to re-ignite tensions, I'd say they've failed miserably!

Was it one last gasp, an attack on the military and police in the hope they'd overreact?

[TiggerCCW UK]

Latest news update this morning. 17 year old male and 37 year old male helping with enquiries. Large peace protests organised for today in Belfast, Lisburn, Londonderry, Newry and Armagh. It looks like people are reacting sensibly and not seeking revenge or retribution.

Legbreaker, I don't think I buy the conspiracy theory - its too risky that it might just kick it all off again. There have been loads of conspiracy allegations over here over the years, including claims that the army deliberately targeted civilians on both sides to get the terrorists fighting each other rather than the army. I think this is unlikely as I don't think they could have kept it a secret for nearly 40 years - something would have leaked by now. There was a book written a few years ago by a man claiming to have been an army assassin over here (can't remember the name offhand) but I give it little credibility. The security forces would never have allowed it to be published if it was true, and also the author showed a massive lack of knowledge about the geography over here, both physical and political. On one occasion he describes targeting a random protestant in the middle of the loyallist enclave Short Strand - in reality the Strand is the only catholic area in East Belfast, and (certainly in the early '70s) not somewhere random protestants would have been found wandering. Any army officer who served in Belfast would have been aware of this, especially if they were supposedly a highly trained government assassin.

As to why it happened now, thats the question of the hour. It may just have been a reminder that the dissidents haven't gone away, possibly its the start of a new campaign over here, in which case I think they badly misjudged public feeling but my guess is that its possibly more politically motivated - the devolution of police powers to the local assembly has been being debated recently and I don't think its beyond the bounds of possibility that its connected to that. On the other hand it may just be random chance that it happened now - a lot of the attacks here over the years don't bear up if you examine what happened and try to figure out why. For example the La Mon bombing in the late '70s when the IRA blew up a hotel and killed 12 members of the Northern Ireland kennel club hardly seems to further the cause of Irish independence. Likewise the Shankill butchers snatching random catholics off the street and torturing them to death hardly seems to help the province stay part of the UK.

[TiggerCCW UK]

The book I was thinking of is The Nemesis File by Paul Bruce. Its an alright read, but I'm sorry, I just don't buy the idea of SAS death squads roaming Belfast killing people at random, it being covered up for 30 years and then one of the members of the squad just being able to write a book about it.

[Targan]

I remember reading a book by a guy who reckoned he'd been part of an SAS death squad in NI. IIRC he never did any specialist training after selection, he basically suggested that the higher ups knew that the members of this 'special duties' squad would end up so psychologically screwed they'd be useless for any other duties afterwards. It was quite a disturbing read but now you mention it Tig it does seem a bit implausable that he'd be allowed to publish it if it was true.

[TiggerCCW UK]

I reckon thats the same book Targ. Struck me as a load of old cock. There have been too many leaks about supposedly secret operations over the years for this to have remained a secret until he decided to publish his book. And had it been true he probably would have had a D notice slapped on it to stop him publishing it and then gone to jail for breaching the official secrets act.

Unless of course thats what they want us to think..... maybe Legbreaker's conspiracy theories are rubbing off on me.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

Legbreaker, I don't think I buy the conspiracy theory

Neither do I, but it had to be put out there....

People from all sides of the situation are going to have reasons to start the troubles up once again. It's just a matter of picking which ones are behind this latest run of attacks and figuring out why (besides the obvious mental deficiency).

[TiggerCCW UK]

Latest update today is that a third man has been arrested in connection with the murder of constable Carrol and that three men were arrested today in connection with the murder of the two sappers.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Saw on the news this morning a 17 year old has been charged with Constable Carrol's murder.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Just checked the news this morning and a prominent republican dissident has been charged with the murder of the two sappers. Looks like the case might move reasonably quickly. In a press conference Republican Sinn Fein (political wing of dissident republicanism, not to be confused with Sinn Fein who are part of the govt in NI) called a press conference yesterday during which they condemned the police raids that led to the arrests of all the suspects, but refused to condemn the murders, describing them as "regrettable but inevitable acts of war". These are the type of people that we must overcome to try and ensure that we have a decent future for the law abiding majority here in the province.