Manual vs Automatic (Split from Driving a BTR)

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by jester

1st Gear is left and forward

2nd Gear left and to the rear

3rd Center and forward

4th Center and to the rear

5th <not all manuals have a 5th gear> to the right and forward <1 vehicle is was right and rear>

Outside US, this will change according to the car model. On several the position will be different (especially ancient models that have a better chance to survive in T2K). Also you forget the reverse drive (usually you can't go on reverse while going forward but it may depend). By the way, I wouldn't be surprised to find some other solutions.

1st solution
1st Gear is left and forward

2nd Gear left and to the rear

3rd Center and forward

4th Center and to the rear

5th to the right and forward

Reverse to the right and to the rear.

2nd solution
1st Gear is left and forward

2nd Gear left and to the rear

3rd Center and forward

4th Center and to the rear

5th right and to the rear

Reverse to the right and forward (rare, I found it on old japanese cars, may be italian but not sure).

3rd solution
1st Gear is left and forward

2nd Gear left and to the rear

3rd Center and forward

4th Center and to the rear

Reverse to the right and forward.

4th solution
1st Gear is left and forward

2nd Gear left and to the rear

3rd Center and forward

4th Center and to the rear

Reverse to the right and to the rear (rare I think).

5th solution and an amusing one which is not that uncommon
Reverse to the left and forward (never saw one to the rear)

1st Gear Center and forward

2nd Center and to the rear

3rd to the right and forward

4th to the right and to the rear.

For all, the neutral is at the center when your stick is dead in hand. If you forget to put it on neutral (check this before starting the engine), your vehicle will jump forward or backward when you start it. Not really a problem but it is enough for a small crash or to throw you down the cliff. In addition, you engine will stop each time.

Finally, there is a last one on older models such as the citroën 2CV and several other older models: the stick will be find next to the stearing wheel. It also seems that many pre-WW2 vehicles had only 3 gears. Again several might survive and that can be fun as well (4 in my village alone, inlcuding a truck, owned by collectors). At last, the newest 4WD vehicles often have a second stick.

Then, in game terms you can have a lot of fun if you want to be mean with your players:
- Destruction of the vehicle clutch pack (I hope it's the right term) on fairly short notice (especially with US players and women from all nationalities )
- Full destruction of the engine after using reverse instead of forward.
- Full destruction of the engine because of the driver leaving the 1st gear on and forgetting about the others. 1st gear is only to start, to control the engine brake and shouldn't be ran at more than 10mph (else your engine will blow up quite quickly). It might also chose to simply leave your car. That happens to my cousin with an old honda civic. He put the injection on and the gear went down from 4th to 2nd gear without notice. As a result, he heard a big noise and felt his car driving over something before coming to a dead stop 50 meters later. He had left his engine behind.
- Regular bumping accident (vehicle going backward while you hoped to go forward, reduced attention as you focus on the stick...).
- Inhability of the player to even start the vehicle.
- Funny habit of having the engine coming to a brutal stop every 10 meters or so. (It happens even with someone used to this). Trust me, if you driver does that all the time, you'll quickly feel like shooting him in the head (because of minor wounds for the other PCs and NPCs).
- Jumping down the cliff because you forgot to start in neutral (make your day)...

The stick advantages:
- It's more sturdy (from dust, mud...) and may last longer (It brakes faster also as the driver is always the weak point).
- It doesn't need any electronic.
- It is easier to repair (you can fix it with less advanced technology).
- It allows you to fully control your engine break and you might not even have to use your regular breaks in hard slopes. (Actually, you might be capable of controlling a car in a steep slope even without brakes). I have gone down a mountain road (4-5 miles with 15-20% slope) in a mitsubshi CJ (from the early 1950's) who had lost its brakes. We arrived alive as the driver was able to maintain the vehicle speed under 20mph but I'm not feeling like doing that too often. Someone talked about the movie "Gods must be crazy", look at the landrover, that's exactly it.
- You can start your vehicle in 1st, 2nd (fairly easy), 3rd (average), 4th (very difficult) and 5th (heroic) gear. As a result, you can use a vehicle with a damaged one.

Another thing with it in game terms again. If your player tries the stick before moving to check were all positions are, you should grant him a fair bonus in controlling it.

I always try the stick before starting a car I don't know just to be sure. I can start a car in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear (I'm not good enough to start it in 4th and 5th and know very little people who can). I usually change my brakes later than usual (I gain from 10000 to 15000 miles with them). I have used all sorts of manual gear but I once drove a bit to close to a tree (because of the stearing wheel stick on a 2CV, now I know).

No I'm not making fun of anyone, I have witnessed and experienced almost all of these and these are only clues for those who don't know. Actually, from what I read many of your players are going out of the US and they will have to deal with that. Anyway, when I drive an automatic you better not forget to buckle up. At some point, I will harshly brake as I foget I don't have to use my left foot.

[Legbreaker]

Yes, that's how it is here in Australia (except for a few rare exceptions).

There's also the much older manual common refered to as "three in the tree". In other words, three forward gears and one reverse with the gear stick located on the side of the steering collumn - very rare to see these days as I think it went out of use (in new car construction) back in the 70s.

Something else to keep in mind that many countries drive on the left side of the road meaning the driver sits on the right and uses their left hand to change gear. Right foot works the accelerator and brake while left foot controls the clutch.

So, while a person might be able to drive a manual in the US or France, they could have some issues in another country where driving is on the left - at least until they retrain their bodies to use the opposite hand to what they're used to.

[Targan]

I was aware that in countries where they drive on the wrong right hand side of the road the gear stick is to the right of the driver but I'd always assumed the accelerator, brake and clutch pedals were aligned the same the world over. Am I wrong?

As for "three on the tree" I'd forgotten about that. I've driven an old Holden ute with that sort of gear system, incredibly heavy clutch for a car but kind of fun.

[Legbreaker]

"Three on the tree" or "four on the floor"....

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Targan

I was aware that in countries where they drive on the wrong right hand side of the road the gear stick is to the right of the driver but I'd always assumed the accelerator, brake and clutch pedals were aligned the same the world over. Am I wrong?

As for "three on the tree" I'd forgotten about that. I've driven an old Holden ute with that sort of gear system, incredibly heavy clutch for a car but kind of fun.

You are right. Actually, using it the other way around is not that much of a problem. Staying on the proper side of the road is much more difficult, however. Taking the roundabout is even more difficult and might become tense when you get a huge truck coming toward you.

On the other hand, that wouldn't be an issue anymore in T2K.

[jester]

I know some of the older jeep trucks used the three in a tree type automatic.

As for pedal position in the US it is;

Far left is clutch if it is a manual, then brake, then gas pedal. And on some models the parking brake is also on the FAR FAR left near the wall of the cab, my jeep and one of my dodge trucks had it, another dodge truck had a handbrake on the far left under the dash, the two cars I drive now a handbrake in the center of the console where or behind where the stick for a manual would be.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by jester

Far left is clutch if it is a manual, then brake, then gas pedal. And on some models the parking brake is also on the FAR FAR left near the wall of the cab, my jeep and one of my dodge trucks had it, another dodge truck had a handbrake on the far left under the dash, the two cars I drive now a handbrake in the center of the console where or behind where the stick for a manual would be.

Same as here. Thanks for that.

[Badbru]

First Datsun ute I had was column shift manual 78 model 1500. Four on the tree. I loved it.

Second datsun, or rather Nissan 720 ute was also a column shift manual four on the tree.

The cabin seemed less clutered and the shifting was simple and fun. I'd actually prefer a column shift manual for my car but currently I drive an auto and don't really like it. The car itself seems weaker and I feel the same way. Lazy car.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Badbru

The cabin seemed less clutered and the shifting was simple and fun. I'd actually prefer a column shift manual for my car but currently I drive an auto and don't really like it. The car itself seems weaker and I feel the same way. Lazy car.

That is the only point I forgot to make: manual are more fun. That is always true (IMO) except in urban areas. For urban driving, automatics are superior by far.

[Legbreaker]

As an ex-professional driver on Sydney's busy streets, I still prefer a manual over an automatic, even with the constant gear changes.
It's all about the control you have over the vehicle. Sure ten or twelve hours ever day on the road in traffic was tough, but on the few occasions I had to drive an automatic, I HATED it.
And since I was doing mobile security patrols at the time with each stop usually no more than a few hundred metres apart, there were a hell of a lot of gear changes!

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

As an ex-professional driver on Sydney's busy streets, I still prefer a manual over an automatic, even with the constant gear changes.
It's all about the control you have over the vehicle. Sure ten or twelve hours ever day on the road in traffic was tough, but on the few occasions I had to drive an automatic, I HATED it.
And since I was doing mobile security patrols at the time with each stop usually no more than a few hundred metres apart, there were a hell of a lot of gear changes!

I've known a lot of cops in my life (and my next-door neighbor is a retired deputy sheriff for this county), and they have all said that they prefer a stick to an automatic in their police cars, and civilian cars if available. They tell me that transmission response is much faster than on an automatic transmission.

I also know that Special Forces troops I've spoken to prefer a stick when they are driving vehicles appropriate to the role (such as civilian vehicles in urban areas and suchlike). For long, overland hauls, they prefer automatics, however; it reduces driver fatigue. An that was in general the US Army's reasoning to switch to an all-automatic combat fleet -- reduction of driver fatigue.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by Badbru

First Datsun ute I had was column shift manual 78 model 1500. Four on the tree. I loved it.

Second datsun, or rather Nissan 720 ute was also a column shift manual four on the tree.

The cabin seemed less clutered and the shifting was simple and fun. I'd actually prefer a column shift manual for my car but currently I drive an auto and don't really like it. The car itself seems weaker and I feel the same way. Lazy car.

I know only automatics, but I'd like to learn how to drive a standard because I'll never know when I'll need to.

At work, we have a Chevy Colorado (actually an Isuzu pickup), Ford Ranger (IIRC, actually a Mazda) and two Pontiac Vibes. I like the Colorado the best because it has a five cylinder engine, the headlights come on automatically and so on. I step on the gas, it takes off like a rocket. The Ford Ranger, OTOH, is a pig, it is slow, sluggish and you really got to floor it to get it to go fast. It has the 2.3 liter engine, a small 4 cylinder. My mother's Hyundai Sonata has a bigger engine than that, her's is a 2.4 liter, 4 cylinder. The Vibes are OK.

Chuck M.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

As an ex-professional driver on Sydney's busy streets, I still prefer a manual over an automatic, even with the constant gear changes.
It's all about the control you have over the vehicle.

Right on brother. I feel the same way.

[jester]

Let me hear a second AMEN!!!!

The automatic I drive now, grrrrrrrrrr I wait and wait and wait for it to shift it is painfuly slow, whereas on my former truck with a manual, poof when it felt right, shift.

[JimmyRay73]

The "three on the tree" column mount manuals were pretty common back in the day, and I kinda want to track down an old beater with one just for the heck of it. In high school I had a friend with a three speed manual on the floor in a 1969 or '70 Mustang. Reverse was way left and forward I think. 1st was not as left and not as forward, 2nd was straight back from 1st, and 3rd was right and forward. If you weren't careful when racing the shift to 3rd would sometimes result in cracking you're knuckles against the radio knobs or dashboard trim... Also the clutch effort was brutal. After a couple of runs up and down the street in that car my (already battered) left knee was an absolute wreck. That really made me appreciate the hydraulic clutch in my 280ZX.

On a side note I once met a hill-billy type guy that claimed to have a 5 speed in an old Plymouth Duster. When I questioned him on the matter since I knew damn well that the only Dusters to come with a 5 speed were the front engine newer ones he replied: "I've got 4 on the floor and a fifth under the seat!" as he reached for the whiskey bottle.

[JimmyRay73]

At work, we have a Chevy Colorado (actually an Isuzu pickup), Ford Ranger (IIRC, actually a Mazda) and two Pontiac Vibes. I like the Colorado the best because it has a five cylinder engine, the headlights come on automatically and so on. I step on the gas, it takes off like a rocket. The Ford Ranger, OTOH, is a pig, it is slow, sluggish and you really got to floor it to get it to go fast. It has the 2.3 liter engine, a small 4 cylinder.
Chuck M.

Actually the Mazda pickups were copies of the Ranger after Ford kinda swallowed up Mazda. With a manual transmission those Rangers and B2000s are not bad at all, but Ford's automatics have always been no fun in trucks. The gearbox and final drive are set up for dragging loads, not having fun. Having driven Rangers with that same engine and both transmission choices I have to say that the manual makes a huge difference. Hell, even the V6 Ranger with an automatic was a dog because of the way it was set up.