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View Poll Results: What is your favorite battle rifle for your PC | |||
L1A1/FAL |
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29 | 29.29% |
M-14/M1A |
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32 | 32.32% |
G-3 |
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25 | 25.25% |
AR-10 |
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6 | 6.06% |
M-1 Garand |
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8 | 8.08% |
other (list below) |
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6 | 6.06% |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll |
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#61
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The only person here making attacks is you |
#62
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all of us posting here step back and take a second to reflect on why we do so ?
I for my part enjoy reading and posting here . I have a worry that quarrels and negativity could ruin our whole set up . |
#63
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We have a number of strong personalities on this forum. This can be both a blessing and a curse. Not pointing any fingers but lets try to keep the tone here respectful eh fellas? We each have something unique to bring to this forum. I don't hold any members here in contempt. Be cool my brothers, be cool.
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#64
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For a general purpose battle rifle, the FAL is head and shoulders above any of the other "main battle rifles" out there -- ergonomic brilliance being the place where it just beats the everloving snot out of the M14 and G3 all day long. It's combat accurate, though definitely not a good starting point for building a DMR.
Add to that, for a T2K world, the ability for the user to adjust the gas system easily to allow for hotter or weaker, cleaner or filthier ammo from various sources and you've got the absolute winner. ![]() |
#65
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#66
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Once I'd zeroed my rifle I never missed a shot with the SLR (FAL) on the 600m pop-up range. Its accuracy is just fine IMO.
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#67
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![]() The G3 has decent ergonomics and acceptable accuracy (IMHumbleO ) . Moreover it is robust and easy to use .I wont say much for its trigger ,but some tweaking is possible to make it smoother . I cant agree totally that the SLR is better . So I think we have to agree to disagree about snot extraction etc ![]() Last edited by headquarters; 05-11-2010 at 02:39 AM. |
#68
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Well that is some amazing shooting. I couldn't do that even with a M1A or AR-10 and they have better sights.
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#69
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#70
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Hi folks.
I think, Headquarter is right, when he points out, most people take, what they are familiar with. That's why I choose the G3. Two drawbacks (IMHO): It's not very balanced, when you have to carry it with one hand. The FAL is better, because of the carrying-handle. And the G3 lacks a bipod. But as far as I'm informed, not all of the FALs have a bipod either, right? We did not shoot at 600 m as normal infantry, but I had no trouble with the 400 m range, what was the longest range for us conscripts to shoot at. If I had the chance to take the G3/SG1, I'd do that. It has a bipod, but it was never the standard-issue-rifle. Well, and for gaming purposes: It's no difference (In V2 and V2.2), if you choose FAL or G3 - the stats are the same.
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I'm from Germany ... PM me, if I was not correct. I don't want to upset anyone! "IT'S A FREAKIN GAME, PEOPLE!"; Weswood, 5-12-2012 |
#71
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You're correct, some nations fitted the integral bipod (as on the StG-58 I posted a picture of earlier in the thread) and others did not. Without checking to make sure, I'm suspecting that most nations using the FAL did not fit the integral bipod, as least on versions intended for rifle use (unlike some of the Israeli and Canadian versions which were light support weapons). From personal experience on the StG-58, the bipod isn't super useful for semi automatic shooting in the prone, but it does make putting effective bursts on target very easy. During familiarization/general screwing around on the range we'd regularly make multiple hits on steel chest plates out to about 200 meters with 3-5 round bursts. Definitely not a substitute for a machine gun, but much better than trying to do the same thing with a full auto 7.62x51 rifle standing off hand.
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#72
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I personally picked the M-14 series of Rifles. I have friends who own H&K G3A3, FN FAL and M14E2 rifles. Those friends shoot said rifles at least once a month and a couple of them compete with said rifles in full Auto competitions. Now said rifles can hit targets in FA out to 100 yards when fired in short bursts. The basic cartridge, magazine capacity, and size being the same or roughtly the same. What gives the M14 my vote is the effectivness of the sights. The FN-FAL is very nice with optics but the iron sights are not my cup of tea. The G3 on the other hand has standard sights limited to 400m.
Plus there is personal preferance going on here. |
#73
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Rock, I have to agree. The 14 platform has more things you can to do accurize it. And inherently it has better potential out of the box as well. The advantage is the Garand style sights that allow you to adjust for windage and elevation technicaly while the weapon is still shouldered. Then, toss in some NM sights, trigger group and barrel and well the platform just get better. I own a L1A1 and a M1A1 and well, the L1 is good, a very good battle rifle. But, it just can't do the same precision at a distance my M1A1 can do. At close range the L1 is accurate but the fine adjustments for longer range is nothing compared to the M1A1.
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"God bless America, the land of the free, but only so long as it remains the home of the brave." |
#74
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in order.
G3 (ootb can serve any decent sniper) M14 (the 8 round ding with a box mag) FAL (democracies right arm) M1 garand (the 8 round ding.)
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the best course of action when all is against you is to slow down and think critically about the situation. this way you are not blindly rushing into an ambush and your mind is doing something useful rather than getting you killed. |
#75
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Have shot the M-14 while in the service...an absolute sweetheart of a weapon, very easy to use, ergonomic and surisingly far more accurate than a M-16 on single shot. When kicked over to full auto, he had better have been hitting the barbells at the gem, the recoil would throw you all over the range.
Since getting out, I have purchased an M-1 Garand...and next to my wife and kids, this is the love of my life (at least until the military starts selling off M-14s to civilians). A sweet, sweet rifle.
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The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis. |
#76
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If you can find an older M1A (back when Springfield Armory was basically just assembling USGI M14 parts on their receivers), or get one from a higher end manufacturer than SA today, you can get something that is about as close to the real thing as will ever be available on the commercial market, though. (Well, I'm told there are some transferable Class III M14s out there, but I think I've heard upwards of $15K price tags if you can even find one . . .) |
#77
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But the M-1 is the next best thing, and in spite of the armchair wiz-bangs talking out of their fourth point of contact about the amount of noise that the clip makes...after over three years of shooting it, I'm happy!
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The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis. |
#78
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I'll take the G-3. In Europe, you're likely to find G-3s or FALs, but I'll go with the G-3. There's a greater likelihood of picking one up off a corpse than an M-14. (2nd choice) Given that's probably how replacement weapons and ammo are found, beggars can't be choosers.
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Treat everyone you meet with kindness and respect, but always have a plan to kill them. Old USMC Adage |
#79
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All too true...but I'm willing to bet that a lot of GIs will be toting AKs!
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The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis. |
#80
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I've got to admit that the AK with it's curved mag certainly looks very cool and it's likely to get picked up for this factor if nothing else.
As far as a practical and accurate weapon, there's plenty of better options out there IMHO.
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem |
#81
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The gunner on my first Bradley crew had (as a PFC or so) carried one he picked up on day one of the ground war in the '91 go-round. Chain of command eventually told him to get rid of it, on or about the last day of the ground war.
These days I can't imagine anyone with quality, current-state-of-the-art weapons training reaching for an AK because, as suggested, it's just not a very good gunfighting weapon, but in the Twilight War it'd probably happen even before necessity enters the equation. Big Army didn't get serious about gunfighting until . . . well, okay, they're still not very serious about it, but they started trying to get better only within the last five years or so. |
#82
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That'd be the US military then. Us in the rest of the world have looked upon marksmanship in a positive light for a very long time.
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem |
#83
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Not marksmanship. Gunfighting. Related but very distinct fields of study.
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#84
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It have the accuracy of a Brown Bess, it can get hot enough to burn your hand under sustained fire, say what you will, drop it in sand or mud, take it from the tropics to the artic and back, lose parts and have some 3rd World blacksmith beat out a replacement part, but the AK has one thing going for it...its works under any and all conditions. Something that can't be said for a lot of high tech wonders that the West/NATO issues to its troops.
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The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis. |
#85
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You know, the more I think about it. Im going to go with an SVD as a combo Battle Rifle and DMR. Its kinda limited with the 10 rd mag though. But still its one heck of a rifle, and its sexy to boot.
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#86
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I can't imagine nobody has produced an extended capacity mag for the SVD....
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem |
#87
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- C.
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Clayton A. Oliver • Occasional RPG Freelancer Since 1996 Author of The Pacific Northwest, coauthor of Tara Romaneasca, creator of several other free Twilight: 2000 and Twilight: 2013 resources, and curator of an intermittent gaming blog. It rarely takes more than a page to recognize that you're in the presence of someone who can write, but it only takes a sentence to know you're dealing with someone who can't. - Josh Olson |
#88
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The SLR is a great Battle rifle. It has a good, heavy round and is proven in combat to be a deadly weapon in trained hands.
The Falklands proved something else about the SLR/FAL, it's a blody pile of heavy crap in the hands of half-trained conscripts and is useless as a fully automatic weapon (which is why the British/Commonwealth SLR was semi only). The M14 is lighter, easier to control and arguably a better piece of kit for militias and units with little training, it's almost idiot-proof. The M14 is also a good latform for further conversion and tinkering, which makes it such a great DMR thst is still in use today. We Brits need some tissues and a quiet moment to ourselves when we see the SLR because the British where (and still are) a relatively small and highly tained military with very high standards of marksmanship. A British soldier could make 600m killshots with an SLR because that is what he was trained to do, day in and day out on the ranges come rain or shine. Nations with larger militaries can't put that much effort into the average soldier. America is a good example as they are required to spend less time on individual training compared to the British (with the exception of the USMC who have a similar focus on marksmanship). It comes down to doctrine. The British is geared around the idea of individual, aimed shots to make best use of limited numbers and ammo conservation. The US army is geared around putting serious lead downrange to make the enemy keep their heads down as US troops advance andpush the enemy out. In a way the Bits are more defensive in style as their advances tend to be slow and steady affairs in a tried and tested fashion that has won many battles. The Americans are fast and furious and their choice of weaponry matchs this philosophy of rapid advance under heavy and sustained fire. Heh, this has become something of an essay so I apologise. In short, the SLR and M14 are two different weapons with different tactical doctrines inspiring their development and use.
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Better to reign in hell, than to serve in heaven. |
#89
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While the British in the 20th century (after bad experiences in the Boer Wars) have always prized marksmanship, there are two other reasons that the British prize marksmanship so highly:
1. Northern Ireland had given us an environment when shots had to be carefully placed. 2. Defence cuts never gave us enough ammo! Preference between weapons is highly dependent on what you are trained on/national pride. SLR is still the best though :-) |
#90
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It's funny you've mentioned 600m killshots because on my very first range qualification shoot with an SLR, once I'd zeroed it, I didn't miss a single shot on the 600m pop-up range. I was far from being the perfect infantryman but I'm proud of my marksmanship. Edit: Oops, just realised I said the same thing about accuracy 24 posts above ![]()
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![]() Last edited by Targan; 07-23-2011 at 06:22 AM. |
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