T2K Today

[Graebarde]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

Please, to all Americans, couldn't you hurry things a bit (change that transition period dating back to the civil war may be?). I'm not Obamaniak but at least it will distract the world a bit and I'll be happy to see a new face on TV. After all, there is a 50/50 chance that he may be good, and at least he will be new. Moreover, he is good looking and doesn't look like a mix between Frankenstein and an Hungarian frog.

Careful what you wish for there. 50/50? I make it more like 10/90. The unkown factor.

Grae
end of political discussion

[Mohoender]

I maintain my 50/50 for several reasons.

First, I don't know that much about him (except for about 1 ton of articles from various newspapers and as much film from TV).
Second, I distrust whatever generate some kind of frenzy (especially in France where it's dum and pointless).
Third, he is not my president, he is yours (That explains why the Obamania from the French is dum and pointless).
Fourth, what may be good for US is not always good for people outside US (and that's fine like this).
Fifth, I expect US citizens to have chosen a president they trust to be good for them. You have enough problems on your own right now and I don't think you are there to solve the world's problems.
Sixth and last, I'm not living in US anymore, I'm not voting there and I don't think that he will oppose some of the security devices that are entering service.

By devices, I'm thinking of the new type of scanner (x-ray scanner, I think it is called). From what I have seen I'll be a pain if I ever get to an airport. No way, a man will look at my wife through that thing. Moreover, if either a man or even a woman dare looking at my kids through this I might quickly get violent and I'm not sure that any human or divine law can stop me (and that is an understatement as that thing my cause the twilight war to come true ).

Therefore my 50/50 was in no way a political discussion.

[jester]

Alot of what I have heard with debates is he is a socialist, alot of his ideas are even marxist. I had a course of e-debates on a Discussion forum with a soon to be Lt about how great he was and how he can walk on water.

Love his ideas but in the end they are so much talk with no way to be implimented. Unless the state controls those industries to include the labor of specialists which would never fly, and from what I am seeing, he is rounding up some of the usual suspects for his yes men, nothing like using the same old people and ideas to bring change.

So, in the end, we all shall have hope and change, or more like, we will be

HOPING FOR CHANGE left in our pockets.

[ChalkLine]

Originally Posted by jester

Alot of what I have heard with debates is he is a socialist, alot of his ideas are even marxist. I had a course of e-debates on a Discussion forum with a soon to be Lt about how great he was and how he can walk on water.

Love his ideas but in the end they are so much talk with no way to be implimented. Unless the state controls those industries to include the labor of specialists which would never fly, and from what I am seeing, he is rounding up some of the usual suspects for his yes men, nothing like using the same old people and ideas to bring change.

So, in the end, we all shall have hope and change, or more like, we will be

HOPING FOR CHANGE left in our pockets.

Guys, I'm a Socialist. Many of my friends are Marxists.

He's so much a capitalist it's not funny, don't even go there.

Honestly, they're using 'Socialist' and 'Marxist' as scare-words. In Oz he'd be considered 'too right-wing'.

Anyway, what's President-elect Obama got to do with WW3?

[Targan]

Gee I'm glad that you post here Chalkline. Its nice to have someone writing things very much like what I think, but writing them better than I could.

I'm a socialist too. I think it is really important for our American friends to realise that just because someone is a socialist doesn't mean they are not a patriot or are in some way evil or dangerous. And just because I'm left-leaning doesn't mean I'm anti military or anti-war. If anything I'm pro-military and I'm quite happy to support wars that are started for good reasons. I was/am against the war in Iraq but I wholeheartedly support the war in Afghanistan.

[LAW0306]

Well I just love all the NON-T2K talk here. Please can we keep the bashing of my Commander and Chief down to a min . I dont bash yours so dont bash mine. also his failed policys? I dont see any from my point of view. and I support all of our wars! I love them! The only time I'm at peace is after I smoke some godless ass from some crap hole country.(Its my way to keep global warming down and keep the world clean) I leave this spring so i will be at peace again.


So please lets keep this civil get back to twilight and stay friends.

[kato13]

I have to say I agree with LAW.

A few points.

A word can mean meany things depending on culture and context. I am sure "spicy" means different things in Ireland compared to India. I am pretty sure "socialist" could also been seen the same way.

When discussion politics I would really rather opinions be kept to a minimum. Even facts can be a gray area as political spin masters can come up with facts to support almost any position.

When discussing any political figure people should remember that between 25-75% of the readers on this board may support the policies of that figure. We are a very varied group in terms of backgrounds and political affiliations, please try to keep verbal assaults against anyone (even political figures) to a minimum.

This thread has not spun out of control yet and I am proud of you guys for that but we are getting dangerously close. Remember guys this is a T2k board.



Edit;

Paul I appreciate you bringing Carla Bruni into this thread.

I am now going to try to shamelessly derail this thread by getting us all to agree she has wonderful legs.

[Targan]

Yum. Could someone let her know that she is welcome to stay at my place if she ever visits Australia. I have a couple of things I'd like to show her.

[Snake Eyes]

Originally Posted by ChalkLine

Anyway, what's President-elect Obama got to do with WW3?

Well, nothing really. Unless he actually does bear the mark of The Beast - in which case we are probably in for some very nasty weather.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by kato13

I have to say I agree with LAW.


Paul I appreciate you bringing Carla Bruni into this thread.

I am now going to try to shamelessly derail this thread by getting us all to agree she has wonderful legs.

Kato I'm not going to help you on that one . My wife legs are ten times more beautiful, also they are only for me to see.

Carla is definitely too skiny and lack whatever is needed for a woman, in my opinion of course. She looks somewhat like a tank with no ammo and empty gas tank (See we are getting back to T2K ). So guys if you want to take her at home be my guest, I'll be sleeping in the bathroom. Make her sing so I'll enjoy the silence . Anyway, if you really intend to do so, you better have a life style or social situation similar to that of those guys (those being the official ones only):

Mike Jagger
Eric Clapton
Jean-Jacques Goldman
Arno Klarsfeld
Laurent Fabius
Vincent Perez
Enthoven (Raphaël) father and, then, son (she jumped from one to the other with no consideration for the son's wife of course).
Louis Bertignac,
……
Nicolas Sarkozy

Last attempt to get back to the thread subject : does any of you know what is going on in India/Pakistan? The situation seems to ease a bit but things seems to be going on in Tribal region.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

Kato I'm not going to help you on that one . My wife legs are ten times more beautiful, also they are only for me to see.

You are a very lucky man then.

As your thoughts have proved there is no single opinion in which everyone on this board is going to agree. On something subjective there is really no reason to expect it or to be bothered by that fact.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

Anyway, if you really intend to do so, you better have a life style or social situation similar to that of those guys...

I'm quite confident that the only reason Carla Bruni hasn't slept with me is that she hasn't met me yet

[headquarters]

I agree - now thats a first "lady"

Who cares if she is a powerhungry .... ( insert bad word for woman who sleeps with powerful men to get what she wants ...ahhhrgh..if I only had alittle more power..) .. well,at least she is honest about it . And in that way you have to admit she fits in rather well with her new hubby and his circle.


AS FOR T2K today thread :

did we use to discuss as edgy on the last forum ? I dont remember

but FOR ONCE I actually have to agree with ..LAW ??

The nonT2k talk sort of piles up.Yeah , I now I am part of it and take sides too.

Please lets get of the politics -clearly the "timeline" discussions always spark some exchanges that are not game-constructive.

I have read somewhere that fringe groups always split up .People - I think it is safe to say we are a fringe group - to put it in T2K terms -maybe the last group of active players and T2K-diehards ON THE PLANET!!

[kato13]

Originally Posted by headquarters

I have read somewhere that fringe groups always split up .People - I think it is safe to say we are a fringe group - to put it in T2K terms -maybe the last group of active players and T2K-diehards ON THE PLANET!!

I have to say, I know for a fact that unpleasantness drives people away. I try to allow open and honest discussions as censorship is a slippery slope, but of course there will always be limits.This thread has teetered on the edge of being more useful than being disruptive so I have not put any clamps on yet.

I know many people are tempted to use this forum to vent frustrations or anger (which may have nothing to do with this board), but if you do that whatever you say is likely to piss someone else off. If it happens too much we WILL lose valuable input, that is an undeniable truth.

Just another bit for everyone to digest.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by headquarters

People - I think it is safe to say we are a fringe group - to put it in T2K terms -maybe the last group of active players and T2K-diehards ON THE PLANET!!

Well, I must recognize that I feel myself invested with the holy mission to evangelize all the poor souls that remain unaware about the existence of the roleplaying way of life. All those lost lambs that are still waiting in the darkness without knowing such important theological concepts like initiative step, outstanding success, to hit roll... I teach all of them that there's a roleplaying path suitable for everyone, no matter the number of sides of the dice (mmmm...sorry, the Omnipresent Multiform Dice) they would be rolling. And following this evangelization task, one of my groups (that I'm proud to say it has been growing in numbers these last months ) is quite young (20-24 years) and is about to play its third T2K adventure next week. So, please, try to spread the word!!! For the moment I will try to avoid to tell them that, in the cold Norwegian lands, a group of T2K players try to bomb their enemies with latrines. After all they are only tender beginners.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Marc

Well, I must recognize that I feel myself invested with the holy mission to evangelize all the poor souls that remain unaware about the existence of the roleplaying way of life. All those lost lambs that are still waiting in the darkness without knowing such important theological concepts like initiative step, outstanding success, to hit roll... I teach all of them that there's a roleplaying path suitable for everyone, no matter the number of sides of the dice (mmmm...sorry, the Omnipresent Multiform Dice) they would be rolling. And following this evangelization task, one of my groups (that I'm proud to say it has been growing in numbers these last months ) is quite young (20-24 years) and is about to play its third T2K adventure next week. So, please, try to spread the word!!! For the moment I will try to avoid to tell them that, in the cold Norwegian lands, a group of T2K players try to bomb their enemies with latrines. After all they are only tender beginners.

I guess to you people on the continent us Scandinavians have always been unwashed,heathen barbarians - a view supported by the horde sof our people that lay panting sunburned red and drunk as F**k on the beaches of the mediterranean -the tourists.

The shitbombing is not a new idea though - many siege engineers have used cadavers and manure in their techniques to breach a fortification in the course of history .

As a GM I have learned never to say NO - just give penalties .

But you know what they say - play rpgs using regular tactics for years and nobody says nothing -but use homemade biological latrine weapons on a large scale ONCE...the talk never ends..

Congrats on recruiting a gaming group and doing important missionary work .

We need more dedicated men like you .

[General Pain]

Originally Posted by headquarters

I guess to you people on the continent us Scandinavians have always been unwashed,heathen barbarians - a view supported by the horde sof our people that lay panting sunburned red and drunk as F**k on the beaches of the mediterranean -the tourists.

The shitbombing is not a new idea though - many siege engineers have used cadavers and manure in their techniques to breach a fortification in the course of history .

As a GM I have learned never to say NO - just give penalties .

But you know what they say - play rpgs using regular tactics for years and nobody says nothing -but use homemade biological latrine weapons on a large scale ONCE...the talk never ends..

Congrats on recruiting a gaming group and doing important missionary work .

We need more dedicated men like you .

Strange I never got any comments when I sendt political enemies and POWs in the Asbestos mines....maybe because I never had any use for the asbestos they made haha

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by General Pain

Strange I never got any comments when I sendt political enemies and POWs in the Asbestos mines....maybe because I never had any use for the asbestos they made haha

well the NPCs started a coup that toppled your regime as soon as they saw it was weakend enough ..thats a statement I guess..

[Graebarde]

Originally Posted by ChalkLine

Anyway, what's President-elect Obama got to do with WW3?

Chalk, this thread IS T2K Today. Hopefully BO will have NOTHING to do with a third world war, but from a Yank, and an INDEPENDENT rather than any party follower, there's is SOMETHING about him that rubs me wrong. But then he's like all politicians... you know they're lying because their lips are moving.

Now how about them Russian's? Or Chineese? Perhaps it's the NK or pirates of Africa? I'm reading a very well written fiction by a amature author on WW3. Stolen nukes and terrorism in the US, with the aftermath. OF course it might not be WW3 but it is post-apoc.

Grae

[ChalkLine]

To bounce of what Grae just said, China is looking really, really dodgy and it doesn't seem to be getting much attention.

China has fuelled its ridiculous growth by its totalitarian economy restricting aspects of free markets, but in a bad way. I'm all for regulation, but the Chinese really, really got it arse-about.

In essence, foreign currency is contraband in China. It has to be turned into a central bureau and exchanged for vouchers, which massively constricts the system but does make some of the elites very, very wealthy. Because such huge amounts of cash clog one area, the Chinese simply invest these funds in other economies that they want access to at very poor returns. It's been estimated that the one way flow of money from China has been as if everyone in the west got a $4000US gift from the Chinese government in living standards for the last ten years.

Now, this isn't how even rabid democratic socialists such as myself see investment being used. Because the money comes in normally and then shoots out in one direction it means that someone has to lose out. In this case it has been the Chinese lower class and thier social environment. The Chinese live in filthy, smoggy cities with deteriorating infrastructure and a huge gulf between the classes. A new generation of Chinese are growing up who look at what they make for export and then compare it with what they have domestically. And they don't like what they see.

It should be noted; you don't get revolutions when you hit rock bottom, everyone is too flat out simply surviving. You get revolutions after a period of prosperity followed by a downturn so the people can make comparisons. Someone has to suffer from the recent slowing of the Chinese economy, and it won't be the people who are benefiting from the massive recent growth who get shafted first, it will be those lower down in the food chain.

What isn't widely known about China is that there's a lot of tension between the seaboard areas that are wealthy and the rural interior which is not. There's been a drift of people from the interior into the the seaboard areas for work, and they're going to be sent home as they get laid off and returned to even worse poverty.

This is rife T2K country. China has a huge military and the commands could easily splinter apart, as they did in the 1920s during The Warlord Era. The rural areas against the coastal industrial make for a good mix, but it's a feature of the warfare that divisional commanders 'on the same side' don't really cooperate. They manoeuvre against the enemy, but also politically against their own side to see if the can climb command ladders.

Players not wishing to play Chinese PCs would be either military or civilians in the border areas. Wild card Chinese divisions could tip North Korea over the edge while other Chinese divisions try and stop it happening and cooperate with international forces.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by ChalkLine

To bounce of what Grae just said, China is looking really, really dodgy and it doesn't seem to be getting much attention.

China has fuelled its ridiculous growth by its totalitarian economy restricting aspects of free markets, but in a bad way. I'm all for regulation, but the Chinese really, really got it arse-about.

In essence, foreign currency is contraband in China. It has to be turned into a central bureau and exchanged for vouchers, which massively constricts the system but does make some of the elites very, very wealthy. Because such huge amounts of cash clog one area, the Chinese simply invest these funds in other economies that they want access to at very poor returns. It's been estimated that the one way flow of money from China has been as if everyone in the west got a $4000US gift from the Chinese government in living standards for the last ten years.

Now, this isn't how even rabid democratic socialists such as myself see investment being used. Because the money comes in normally and then shoots out in one direction it means that someone has to lose out. In this case it has been the Chinese lower class and thier social environment. The Chinese live in filthy, smoggy cities with deteriorating infrastructure and a huge gulf between the classes. A new generation of Chinese are growing up who look at what they make for export and then compare it with what they have domestically. And they don't like what they see.

It should be noted; you don't get revolutions when you hit rock bottom, everyone is too flat out simply surviving. You get revolutions after a period of prosperity followed by a downturn so the people can make comparisons. Someone has to suffer from the recent slowing of the Chinese economy, and it won't be the people who are benefiting from the massive recent growth who get shafted first, it will be those lower down in the food chain.

What isn't widely known about China is that there's a lot of tension between the seaboard areas that are wealthy and the rural interior which is not. There's been a drift of people from the interior into the the seaboard areas for work, and they're going to be sent home as they get laid off and returned to even worse poverty.

This is rife T2K country. China has a huge military and the commands could easily splinter apart, as they did in the 1920s during The Warlord Era. The rural areas against the coastal industrial make for a good mix, but it's a feature of the warfare that divisional commanders 'on the same side' don't really cooperate. They manoeuvre against the enemy, but also politically against their own side to see if the can climb command ladders.

Players not wishing to play Chinese PCs would be either military or civilians in the border areas. Wild card Chinese divisions could tip North Korea over the edge while other Chinese divisions try and stop it happening and cooperate with international forces.

I like the analyzis. It sounds credible-maybe too credible for comfort -but you gotta admit -it would be a hell of a campaign to play ? I would love a T2K /Merc or mix set in those parameters.

I guess a lot of guys in here could make enough for their bread and butter by going on the networks and make statements just as good or probably a lot better than most of them .Lots of security politics and international relations insights here -various perspectives.Kato -are you relaying this to any of the agencies ? It could make cash.
hehe

[jester]

Hey, lets not forget the current Russian situation. They're again manipulating the gas and oil flow into Western Europe.

Now, how is this for a scenario:

This Winter becomes one of the coldest in memory. Peoples gas are being rationed, hundreds die from cold, or cold related illness. Mostly the very young, the old and the infirm. But it catches up to the younger people too.

The cost of natural gas goes high and sparks inflation, making people desperate.

And then investigations find that the Russians have been manipulating the gas market in Europe, not just by cutting off the supply, but through manipulation on the futures market and insider trading.

And then "terrorists" start to hit the shipments of fuel from abroad. One terrorist cell is engaged and its survivors are found to be working for the Russian government or they are outright Spietnaz personel, or GRU.

And then diplomacy falls and the tanks begin to roll. Who rolls them, Western Europe for the direct attacks on its assets and the overall attack on every many woman or child? Or Russia to save face, or to just taker over a now weakened Europe and gain a position of control for the entire continent.

[Mohoender]

Nice scenario Jest.

I'll change just one thing. I would imagine the terrorists to be, for exemple Pro-Russian Ukrainian (why not Crimean independentists) with strong but no direct ties with Moscow (There are several other possible choices).

Then, with the already numerous dead in the former Pact countries of the EU, the situation might quickly become tense. European countries might roll the tank first in support of Ukraine (trying to crush these terrorists) and it might extend its support to Georgia again. It would also offer membership to these countries in the EU. As a result, Russia would have to respond.

Then, the Russian can roll the tanks in response to Ukrainian military operation in Crimea. In the meantime, they would establish a free Crimea, reinforce their position in the Caucasus (why not even moving against Azerbaijan). At last they might also attempt to establish a puppet government in Ukraine. As a result, EU, fearing for its energy supply will take that opportunity to declare war.

[Targan]

Wow. Looks like the natural gas situation in Europe will be benefitting my local economy. The state where I live exports enormous volumes of natural gas. I would expect the international LNG price to soar.

[ChalkLine]

Originally Posted by Targan

Wow. Looks like the natural gas situation in Europe will be benefitting my local economy. The state where I live exports enormous volumes of natural gas. I would expect the international LNG price to soar.

I worked on LNG pipelines for a while, and I know the following;

- The Moombah gas fields are officially tapped out.
- The North West Shelf gas fields are past peak.

The only LNG fields available to us now are half owned by Timor Leste.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by ChalkLine

I worked on LNG pipelines for a while, and I know the following;

- The Moombah gas fields are officially tapped out.
- The North West Shelf gas fields are past peak.

The only LNG fields available to us now are half owned by Timor Leste.

I've heard in many places that oil has reached the "tipping point" -- over half of the oil originally in the world has already been pumped out of the ground (61% is the figure I hear most often for oil). Natural gas has also reached the tipping point -- a bit less than 51% has already been tapped.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by ChalkLine

I worked on LNG pipelines for a while, and I know the following;

- The Moombah gas fields are officially tapped out.
- The North West Shelf gas fields are past peak.

The only LNG fields available to us now are half owned by Timor Leste.

Do you mean the only entirely untapped gas fields available to us are half-owned by Timor Leste? Even if that were the case (and from the reports I monitor at work on a weekly basis I don't think it is) its not a 50-50 split with Timor Leste anyway. IIRC its more like 80-20 in our favour. In any case the Greater Sunrise and Browse Basin gas fields have amazingly large reserves of gas in them. Australia will be exporting huge amounts of gas for decades yet to come.

[weswood]

Originally Posted by kato13

I am now going to try to shamelessly derail this thread by getting us all to agree she has wonderful legs.

Legs? I didn't notice any legs!

[Graebarde]

LNG carriers are BEAUTIFUL targets for Ts. They are virtual floating bombs. Think of the FAE mother of all bombs the USAF used in ODS and reported as a nucdet by some folks initally. That would be a drop in the bucket to what kind of explosion one of those carriers would make. I realize they are 'industry safe' for transport and stringetly maintained etc, but sabotage and such has been known to happen. Imagine one in a port going up. I infact used one in the sidebar news of GT. And as for 'it can never happen', only the end of eternity will be the judge of that.

Grae