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  #31  
Old 03-09-2020, 08:43 AM
pmulcahy11b's Avatar
pmulcahy11b pmulcahy11b is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WallShadow View Post
Swaghauler:
I noted that you included the spectrum of chokes, but charging out of obscurity (my copy of the reproduction of the 1940 Stoeger Arms Catalogue, aka "the Shooter's Bible") are two more muzzle treatments a Cutts Compensator (yes, for a shotgun!) and a shot spreader. The Cutts compensator was popular in the 30s and was original equipment on Thompson Submachine Guns. It acted like an attached Mag-na-port treatment to help keep the muzzle-rise from, well, rising. The shot spreader looks sort of like a funnel that's flattened on two sides which are positioned top and bottom. The shot apparently is allowed to spread laterally but not in the vertical plane.
I thought I put chokes and muzzle devices on my Shotgun Ammo page
https://www.pmulcahy.com/ammunition/shotgun_shells.htm
But I seem to have forgotten to do that. Another thing to fix...

But generally, muzzle brakes have to be designed for a shotgun to allow them to fire buckshot through the muzzle brake without destroying it (or worse, causing a burst barrel). Did they make a Cutts Compensator for shotguns?
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  #32  
Old 03-09-2020, 03:37 PM
Vespers War Vespers War is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b View Post
I thought I put chokes and muzzle devices on my Shotgun Ammo page
https://www.pmulcahy.com/ammunition/shotgun_shells.htm
But I seem to have forgotten to do that. Another thing to fix...

But generally, muzzle brakes have to be designed for a shotgun to allow them to fire buckshot through the muzzle brake without destroying it (or worse, causing a burst barrel). Did they make a Cutts Compensator for shotguns?
Lyman made them in both steel and aluminum. They claimed a 35% reduction in recoil for light (Trap or Skeet) loads and 46% for high-velocity loads. It was recommended that aluminum not be used with high-velocity hunting loads. The pamphlet I've seen mentions the Remington 11-48 being new, so late 1940s or very early 1950s, since that shotgun was introduced in '49.
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  #33  
Old 03-12-2020, 02:49 PM
swaghauler swaghauler is offline
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Lucky Gunner Ammo just uploaded part 2 of their Buckshot series.

https://youtu.be/Jf4i8gRTsJs


Swag
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  #34  
Old 03-12-2020, 03:31 PM
swaghauler swaghauler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WallShadow View Post
Swaghauler:
I noted that you included the spectrum of chokes, but charging out of obscurity (my copy of the reproduction of the 1940 Stoeger Arms Catalogue, aka "the Shooter's Bible") are two more muzzle treatments a Cutts Compensator (yes, for a shotgun!) and a shot spreader. The Cutts compensator was popular in the 30s and was original equipment on Thompson Submachine Guns. It acted like an attached Mag-na-port treatment to help keep the muzzle-rise from, well, rising. The shot spreader looks sort of like a funnel that's flattened on two sides which are positioned top and bottom. The shot apparently is allowed to spread laterally but not in the vertical plane.
I have only posted a quick look at my rules if you will.

I have Barrel Length, Choke, Sights, and other modifications like Extended Forcing Cones and Match-Grade Barrels all affect the weapon's BASE RANGE. This BASE RANGE can also be modified by the shotshell used, but the BASE RANGE is the weapon's game range.

Other modifications like Muzzle Brakes, Porting, Adjustable Stocks, and Customizing a gun's point of balance/swing (common in those expensive custom Doubles) affect the weapons RECOIL and its WEAPON SPEED.

You kind of "design" your shotgun in my system by starting with Barrel Length. You then pick your weapon's Sights and add in any range bonus for them. You then determine such features as Porting, Customizable Stocks, Action Tunning, and any other special features. These can all change the BASE RANGE, RECOIL, and WEAPON SPEED accordingly. Finally, you select your Choke for those guns which can use screw-in or screw-on chokes and adjust your BASE RANGE accordingly. A final "modification" to RECOIL and BASE RANGE comes from the ammunition you use.

IF you look at my posting for the 00 Buck loading, you will see that at MEDIUM RANGE its chance to hit is AVERAGE (the same as for SHORT RANGE). So I use the HIT PROBABILITY, RANGE MODIFICATION, TO HIT BONUSES (mostly seen in Birdshot), and DICE REDUCTION to differentiate types of chokes and loads.

With the above parameters in mind, I give the Shot Spreader (which I have included in my rules) a REDUCTION of -2m in BASE RANGE. This is due to the fact that the Buckshot pattern is squeezed into a fan-shaped blast. This widens the pattern (creating "misses" earlier in the Buckshot's flight). I also give the user a BONUS of 1 on their To Hit roll at MEDIUM RANGE. This is because, at that Range, the Pattern Density is NOT reduced, but rather increased as its shape is changed. The fan-shaped pattern gives a better To Hit Probability even as it widens the shot's pattern (thereby reducing its Range). This bonus is retained at LONG RANGE but lost at EXTREME RANGE (where pellet density is extremely low). So, while you are shortening the range by using the Spreader, it is also giving you a bonus To Hit at half the Ranges you will shoot at.
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  #35  
Old 03-12-2020, 03:34 PM
swaghauler swaghauler is offline
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I'll try to find the time to post my FULL RULES for shotguns. You may find them interesting (or not). At least you'll option of deciding for yourself.
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