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Old 09-14-2015, 01:05 PM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is offline
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One of the things that always bugged me is that the original idea of TMP required that members leave their entire life behind - not just all the people (which is largely unavoidable) but also their possessions. That seemed to be a correctable problem, and since my characters were always legally dead, I told one group of players that Morrow arranged for a long-term cemetery plot in a location of their choosing, and that when they were declared dead a coffin would be filled with whatever they chose, charged with nitrogen, sealed, and buried. This gave them a roughly 2'x3'x6' box that they could put anything into, and that they could plan to recover once the more dangerous phases of the Project were completed.

This was not an ideal solution, however. Many players wanted to put not just personal effects, but also practical items in there as well - a favorite gun or clothes or trade items or whatever - and in many cases the chosen burial plot was thousands of miles from their bolthole. So the next group I gave an extra cache, specially designated, that held 2'x3'x6' boxes for each of them. That way, it was near to them and easily obtainable whenever they as a team thought it worthwhile. Of course, the cache doesn't re-hide itself, so once opened it is a good idea to get everything out to a secure location.

Anyway, how reasonable does that sound to everyone? Does anyone have a better idea? I just don't like the idea that these guys have to live out of their rucks for the rest of their lives...
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Old 09-14-2015, 01:18 PM
.45cultist .45cultist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
One of the things that always bugged me is that the original idea of TMP required that members leave their entire life behind - not just all the people (which is largely unavoidable) but also their possessions. That seemed to be a correctable problem, and since my characters were always legally dead, I told one group of players that Morrow arranged for a long-term cemetery plot in a location of their choosing, and that when they were declared dead a coffin would be filled with whatever they chose, charged with nitrogen, sealed, and buried. This gave them a roughly 2'x3'x6' box that they could put anything into, and that they could plan to recover once the more dangerous phases of the Project were completed.

This was not an ideal solution, however. Many players wanted to put not just personal effects, but also practical items in there as well - a favorite gun or clothes or trade items or whatever - and in many cases the chosen burial plot was thousands of miles from their bolthole. So the next group I gave an extra cache, specially designated, that held 2'x3'x6' boxes for each of them. That way, it was near to them and easily obtainable whenever they as a team thought it worthwhile. Of course, the cache doesn't re-hide itself, so once opened it is a good idea to get everything out to a secure location.

Anyway, how reasonable does that sound to everyone? Does anyone have a better idea? I just don't like the idea that these guys have to live out of their rucks for the rest of their lives...
More common idea than you think by the way.
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Old 09-14-2015, 03:24 PM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is offline
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More common idea than you think by the way.
I am not nearly so arrogant to think that I was the only one who saw this issue. I am just curious how people are addressing it.
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Old 09-14-2015, 03:55 PM
.45cultist .45cultist is offline
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I am not nearly so arrogant to think that I was the only one who saw this issue. I am just curious how people are addressing it.
I'm sorry cosmicfish for a poorly worded reply, no arrogance assumed! Usually a box "X" size and/ or a footlocker stashed in a depot. The coffin one would be interesting if a community plowed the graveyard up for farming like in the 3rd ed Chicago module.
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Old 09-14-2015, 04:38 PM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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In my games, the players get a carry-all bag that can roughly hold about 5pounds of gear, any books that they want to bring gets downloaded to cd-rom, ditto with music and photos. I've had to be tough with the players on what the bring, no bars of gold, uncut gemstones, weapons and ammunition, you get the idea. In addition, the players get to choose a small footlocker of personnel gear that goes into the cache, and I add goodies like a couple of cases of beer/soda, candy, coffee/tea that goes into each cache, along with "good luck" note from the update team.
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Old 09-14-2015, 05:20 PM
mikeo80 mikeo80 is offline
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In most of my games, the players had a shoebox. You would be surprised as to what some folks put into the shoe box.

I had one character that had the following.

2 well used personal pipes
2 boxes of light anywhere matches
1 pound of Dunhill 221b Baker Street Tobacco
1 pipe cleaner tool
1 pack pipe cleaners
1 pint Glenmorangie Scotch (Medicinal use ONLY)

my $0.02

Mike

Last edited by mikeo80; 09-14-2015 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 09-14-2015, 07:25 PM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is offline
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Originally Posted by dragoon500ly View Post
In my games, the players get a carry-all bag that can roughly hold about 5pounds of gear, any books that they want to bring gets downloaded to cd-rom, ditto with music and photos. I've had to be tough with the players on what the bring, no bars of gold, uncut gemstones, weapons and ammunition, you get the idea. In addition, the players get to choose a small footlocker of personnel gear that goes into the cache, and I add goodies like a couple of cases of beer/soda, candy, coffee/tea that goes into each cache, along with "good luck" note from the update team.
I like all of this.
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Old 09-14-2015, 09:28 PM
.45cultist .45cultist is offline
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One of the reasons a facility job is good, lots of stowage.
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Old 09-15-2015, 03:57 PM
mikeo80 mikeo80 is offline
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One other thing to think about when plotting "extras" for your team members. Everything your character brings with him/her has to be carried somehow! There is only SO much room on your V-150. The bolt hole is designed to be abandoned. (Do NOT get me started on that subject. I will RANT for a long time.)

My $0.02

Mike
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Old 09-15-2015, 05:09 PM
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Essentially my group went with, 'if it fits into your pack with the rest of your gear you can bring it' solution. The teams then got rid of there smaller packs and went looking for larger ones with more storage room or even added buttpacks strapped on for even more gear. Pain in the neck if they have to hump that gear across bad terrain but it allows a team to bring a small number of personnel possessions.

Surprisingly enough the last team I was with, books took up the excess space mostly with the occasional family pistol or such.
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Old 09-15-2015, 05:10 PM
tsofian tsofian is offline
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I give everyone a 25 kilogram limit of stuff. This is in the bolt hole with them

I also add candy and other such things in caches. I always wondered if any of the characters would catch the different colors of M & Ms available at different times!
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Old 09-15-2015, 07:08 PM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is offline
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Originally Posted by tsofian View Post
I give everyone a 25 kilogram limit of stuff. This is in the bolt hole with them
I hate to say that their ALL their personal gear is in their bolthole - the place was meant to be abandoned, and I don't think it realistic to say that they are going to have all their worldly possession in the MPV with them at all times.
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Old 09-15-2015, 09:53 PM
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I am with the crowd that states if it fits in a .50 BMG ammo can it can go, but everything has to fit in that one .50 BMG ammo can.

As for money, gold, diamonds, sapphires, rubies.... etc.

The PCs are for all intents and purposes......Legally dead. So I would explain to them that they cannot have $100,000 in gold coins. That wealth went to their heirs.
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Old 09-26-2015, 02:19 PM
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I'm a ham radio operator so most of my effects would be skewed to that so most likely I'd bring along things like a shortwave radio and handheld police scanner, perhaps a small laptop and a BeoFeng VHF/UHF HT. I have a Grundig G6 shortwave radio that goes from longwave to 30 Mc and can tune in SSB and that is the size of cigarettes. Who knows but I guess I'd be speding my spare and rec time tuning is AM stations from the KFS and so forth.
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Old 09-27-2015, 10:31 AM
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Usually PC want some weapon they think is cool or some survival equipment they think will give them an edge. Sometime they want books or CD ROMs of books that they think will help them rebuild.

I let them. These little choices are the spice that makes a PC different and relatable. Like the cowboy hat or the 72oz megagulp thermal mug, the .45LC Colt Peacemaker, or SOG tomahawk... It is their affectations and as a PD not insurmountable obstacles.

I don't allow gold, silver, gems....... above $100.... They are legally dead and their estate went to their heirs.

Now I did allow some PCs their own personal stash....... They pooled their money and resources.... Pre-War and built a bolthole of their own... Cars, furnishings, tractors, etc..... Cached in the desert outside Pahrump, NV...... The team awakened outside Riverton.........
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Old 09-27-2015, 10:44 AM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is offline
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The only limitations I've put on what they could keep were those of accessibility (i.e., could an average team member get this?) and safety (i.e., would the Project allow it!). These people knew that they were being buried and would likely lose everything and everyone, it is not unreasonable that they would put some thought into what they got to keep. The fact that they became legally dead doesn't mean that they couldn't have done some "irresponsible spending" in their final years! Maybe they invested in gold coins that they buried in their back yards. Maybe they got a little paranoid and bought a bunch of guns that they hid from the government... and everyone else! Heck, as far as anyone knows they blew all their (solidly middle class) money at strip clubs!

But when I talk to players about this, I point out to them that most practical items would already by provided and supported by the Project, so these caches should really be about personal effects and things they might want whenever (and IF ever) they retire from the Project. If they play that well, I am a little more lenient about letting them "discover" useful things that they had packed and forgotten about...
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Old 10-11-2015, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
One of the things that always bugged me is that the original idea of TMP required that members leave their entire life behind - not just all the people (which is largely unavoidable) but also their possessions. That seemed to be a correctable problem, and since my characters were always legally dead, I told one group of players that Morrow arranged for a long-term cemetery plot in a location of their choosing, and that when they were declared dead a coffin would be filled with whatever they chose, charged with nitrogen, sealed, and buried. This gave them a roughly 2'x3'x6' box that they could put anything into, and that they could plan to recover once the more dangerous phases of the Project were completed.

This was not an ideal solution, however. Many players wanted to put not just personal effects, but also practical items in there as well - a favorite gun or clothes or trade items or whatever - and in many cases the chosen burial plot was thousands of miles from their bolthole. So the next group I gave an extra cache, specially designated, that held 2'x3'x6' boxes for each of them. That way, it was near to them and easily obtainable whenever they as a team thought it worthwhile. Of course, the cache doesn't re-hide itself, so once opened it is a good idea to get everything out to a secure location.

Anyway, how reasonable does that sound to everyone? Does anyone have a better idea? I just don't like the idea that these guys have to live out of their rucks for the rest of their lives...
Why not a false wall and behind reinforced concrete in the Bolthole? Come back with some sledges and hacksaws and make an opening, get your stuff.

It is one less thing to hide for the location and adds little expense to the Bolthole build.
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Old 10-11-2015, 08:21 PM
.45cultist .45cultist is offline
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Why not a false wall and behind reinforced concrete in the Bolthole? Come back with some sledges and hacksaws and make an opening, get your stuff.

It is one less thing to hide for the location and adds little expense to the Bolthole build.
Boltholes are uninhabitable, but can be excellent storage. The vehicle bay might be the only place to do heavy maintenance on the MPV's. an I beam and put a hoist in the closest cache. A closet sized area for personal effects dry boxes isn't out of the question, but Lonestar would make it annoying if they dally too long.....
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Old 10-11-2015, 10:10 PM
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Boltholes are habitable. A bolthole may be considered a big underground concrete tent for two to four weeks of camping with the team sleeping in the bags on the pads.
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Originally Posted by Rulebook, 4th ed.
While it has lights and power, the bolt-hole has no facilities for extended occupation; most importantly, they do not have sleeping accommodation, running water or toilet and cooking facilities. Added to the fact that bolt-holes are intentionally located in remote areas for security reasons, they would not make good permanent bases, and are not designed to.
Probably do not have the best ventilation system. Just not intended to be used for operations during long periods of time. The ideas of having an I beam set across the vehicle bay for field repairs (the designed plan was to have regional bases handle repair facilities and parts) or erecting large personal effects lockers hidden behind a false wall do not really fit the 'frozen for five years' plan for the Morrow Project. A two liter sized personal effects box for each member is not too big (think of it as the size of a two liter cola bottle). Five liters of volume is what I consider the maximum size for a personal effects locker.

Last edited by RandyT0001; 10-12-2015 at 07:14 AM.
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Old 10-12-2015, 07:02 PM
mmartin798 mmartin798 is offline
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Boltholes are habitable. A bolthole may be considered a big underground concrete tent for two to four weeks of camping with the team sleeping in the bags on the pads.

Probably do not have the best ventilation system. Just not intended to be used for operations during long periods of time.
I will start by saying I am in the abandon the bolt hole camp. But this ventilation system "problem" is easily solvable. Open the emergency escape, put a vented cap on the surface, make a vehicle door with a vent and put a fan in the escape shaft. All of this should be relatively easy to fabricate from part salvaged from cry tubes and materials scavenged or manufactured from the materials at the site.
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:42 PM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is offline
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I am also in the "abandon the bolt hole" camp - simply put, I just don't see any real advantage to staying there. What does it really offer that the team doesn't already have... a table? It is hard to defend, and the typical team lacks the manpower to defend it or even use it in any real manner while executing their travel-heavy mission. Three guys manning the radio in a bunker would be more useful backing up their buddies 30 miles away in an under-manned MPV.

After some pre-emergence planning and preparation, I would expect SOP to call for the team to emerge, re-bury the entrance, and move on. You can hope that no one notices the scar on the landscape so that you can recover anything left there, but realistically the site is likely to be looted and/or become an ambush site.
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Old 10-13-2015, 03:37 PM
.45cultist .45cultist is offline
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I was for storage, not habitation, then the airtight seal is an asset. Even if its just next year's crop seed. Or if a cache site is in a lake or river.
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Old 10-13-2015, 05:15 PM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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It all depends on the team; a recon team has no need for a fixed base, their job is to get out of the hole and start surveying the countryside, making contact with the locals. A fixed base ties the team to a certain locality, this defeats the primary purpose of a recon team.

A science team would have more need of a fixed base, their task would require lab space, larger amounts of equipment/supplies, ditto for a speciality team.

MARS teams are the odd balls, arguments can be made for large teams, complete with aviation assets to allow them to cover large area, or small teams covering a smaller area, supporting recon teams.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:02 PM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is offline
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I was for storage, not habitation, then the airtight seal is an asset. Even if its just next year's crop seed. Or if a cache site is in a lake or river.
If it is going to be unmanned and without Starnaman-style automated defenses then you cannot leave anything of value there. You might be able to store seed and other community supplies if you can arrange for the community to guard the site, but anything more is pretty optimistic.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:11 PM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragoon500ly View Post
It all depends on the team; a recon team has no need for a fixed base, their job is to get out of the hole and start surveying the countryside, making contact with the locals. A fixed base ties the team to a certain locality, this defeats the primary purpose of a recon team.
Agreed.

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A science team would have more need of a fixed base, their task would require lab space, larger amounts of equipment/supplies, ditto for a speciality team.
That kind of ignores the purpose of the Science-One vehicles, and also ignores the distinction between field teams and permanent facilities. The field teams are supposed to be fully mobile, needing only supply caches to do their basic jobs. More advanced jobs are why there are permanently staffed facilities.

Last edited by cosmicfish; 10-14-2015 at 04:38 PM.
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