OT-People of the World

[Mohoender]

I hesitated some times before writing this thread but finally, I decided to take the risk (Kato as I’m convinced you are watching, lock it if it ever start to go wild). What I’ll say here is in no way an absolute (not talking of the vodka) but simple observations (that disserve critics and corrections) on people in the world. Don’t consider it as granted and don’t consider it as discriminatory. From my experience, you find great people and jerks worldwide (sadly we might be listening too much to jerks while most great people remain silent, their worse crime).

I start with the French (fair I think). In many ways they are a great people but they are turned toward the past and spend most of their time complaining while they should simply be moving forward. Starting a business in this country is hell and needs a lot of courage and stubbornness. The French have a tendency to consider themselves the most intelligent people on the planet but for my parts I consider that France is constantly organizing a national gathering of “slow minded jerks”. I think that the citizens are perfectly aware of that but they learn to live with it and the main French quality is patience. They are also hard workers. When their patience is expended, they go to Paris and cut off some heads (and that could happen again). At war, they fight bravely and should never be underestimated (however, Jerks are often on top of the chain of command). However, they hate fighting wars; don’t ever try to force them into it!! (The bad part for me is that I can live with the French weaknesses, being very French about that, sob!).

Then go for the English (and I’m not talking of Irish, Scots and Welsh). As a Frenchman, I naturally distrust them as we had been opposed for so long. Yes it goes back to Jeanne d’Arc but was repeated over and over again (1776, 1814, 1870, 1914??...). However, as a people I always end up appreciating them and have a good time when I hang up with English men and women. (We officially dislike each other but, truly, it isn’t that true and there are about 10% lobster looking English where I live). Moreover, I have a tendency to count them among the bravest people in the Western world (French complains, British acts). On the downside, they are noisy, drinking too much when abroad and usually surrounded by strange flying kids with coloured hairs and tattoos. Don’t ever go to a restaurant where English people are having dinner (fish and ships becomes a better option). Talking of that you have great food in England (if you have a few millions on your bank account) and they make one of the greatest breakfast (second only to the Scottish) and good beers.

I don’t want to say much on the other people living on the two British islands as I might seem to be praising them. I don’t know the Welsh but hear a lot of good things on them. Irish are simply great people and I have plenty around as I’m writing. They might suffer from a slight inferiority complex, however (and sorry, I find Ireland landscapes as boring as these of Belgium: Flat countries with churches as only mountains). For the Scots, I simply love these people: brave, nice and with a great sense of humor. Most of all, they are living IMO in the most gorgeous country on the planet (also it is cold). I would love to get rich simply to buy a small cottage over there (I fall in love with Scotland several years ago).

About US citizens, it’s trickier as I grew the deepest respect for the people and the most profound distrust of their leaders. When I looked, at the tower going down, I thought that we were on the verge of world war 3 (no kidding). However, on the next day I remember what I think about Americans (naïve, brave, honest and generous while self centered). It did go almost as I thought. We missed WW3 but US invaded Iraq to finally get rid of Bush and may be they voted for Ken or their best president in years (who knows). While more of my friends grew worry, I was growing more confident, convinced that the US citizens I knew would not let things go out of hand (I was not disappointed). The worse part in US for me is the way they raise kids and constantly spend time watching their neighbors. The main reason, I don’t live in US is that there are no ways for me to raise my kids there.

Watching neighbors is also the main activity of the Belgian people. I used to walk naked in my Brussels flat with its 20m² of open window just to chock the old women living across the street and constantly watching (that might have pleased her but as it didn’t cost me much…). In the meantime they are absolutely blind to what those same neighbors do and I spent the nine month in Brussels as an illegally working foreigner (when they finally got that, I was gone, LOL). Else they are a very nice people to hang with, they can be trusted when you have trouble, they are faithful allies (to the point of being blind and stupid) but they are also hot tempered and among the most racist people. I refused the racist part but if you ever touch my kid, I’ll find you and kill you wherever you are. To avenge my kids, I’m willing to nuke the planet (Oops! Too bad, sorry). One last thing, Belgium make the best beers on the planet but they are not for pussys. They also make the best French fries (actually, the French don't know how to make them). The fact that US switched the name to Freedom fries was only a proof of ingorance: should have been renamed Belgian fries (Moreover, as a result, the Belgians would have fought for you right up to Moscow).

Talking of racism, almost no one can challenge the Portuguese. However, they are generous to the point of giving you their water when they have it in very limited supplies (true life experience). I love them also as they are the best horsemen on Earth (IMO), patient and sweet. As long as you don’t watch a Portuguese bull fight, just don’t talk about it (sorry never went to a Spanish ones). However, they are hot tempered, very hot tempered. Among the 30 people working from my mother, you could find no less than 3 murderers, a dozen men who had spent time in jail for violence and the remaining ones had simply not been caught (one biting off the nose of his opponent in a fight). On the other hand, when some people threatened my mother with rifles, these thirty men all showed up fully armed and ready to fight. By the way, if you ever come to listen to Fado, lock out your weapons as you might feel like terminating your life right away (equally true for Corsican traditional music). Portuguese are among the saddest people I ever met, and they are slow and fatalist.

In all this, they are very similar to Russians. I have met many and spent a lot of time with them as Russians are a lot of fun (Vodka, Vodka…Ochin arachô). They are also a strange mix between genius and totally insane people (The Russian roulette could not have been invented by any one else). However, there is much more subtlety to a Russian that what you see in the first place and I grew a lot of respect for them (as much as for Americans). Strangely, Americans and Russians have much more in common that what they both think (Russians are fascinated by Americans and I suspect Americans to feel the same way). On the downside, Russians are lazy (especially the men who are usually the family shame). They are as fatalist as the Portuguese but in a different way (They talk of their leaders as “Ani”: them, these aliens, whatever…). Finally, you won’t get a Russian to fight for a political idea (not even communism. A French, however, can do that even if he doesn’t understand the concept) but he will fight to death for Mother Russia (No other people on this planet could have sacrificed 25 millions of their kinds to achieve victory: this is 1/3 of the entire victims of WW2).

I don’t know well Spanish people, however, but traveled enough through Spain to know that they are much to them that what you might see in the first place. Sadly no one taught those working along the roads to smile (over a hundred stops and I count the smiles with only one hand). However, there are some gorgeous cities in that realm. As I really apreciate our Catalan's friends intervention, I'm convinced they are nice.

Ok, now that I took that risk, don’t feel insulted, there are no insults here. I’m more interested in your opinions but try not to insult anyone. No people on this planet disserve insults. Might be interest to have several opinions on people and it might be helpful to get some ideas from which we can draw characters that are foreign to us.

[Kellhound]

Oh, we have a little from everything :P

We have an old saying:
Oyendo hablar a un hombre, fácil es
acertar dónde vio la luz del sol;
si os alaba Inglaterra, será inglés,
si os habla mal de Prusia, es un francés,
y si habla mal de España, es español.

Translation going something like:
Listening how a man speaks, it's easy to know where he was born
if he compliments England, he's English
if speaks badly about Prussia, he's French
if speaks badly about Spain, he's Spanish

What else can I say? I'm Spanish

[Targan]

Well I'm Australian so what can I say? We're all keen of eye and wit, strong of limb, fine featured and effusively gregarious. Am I right? Huh?

Where'd everyone go?

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Kellhound

Oh, we have a little from everything :P

We have an old saying:
Oyendo hablar a un hombre, fácil es
acertar dónde vio la luz del sol;
si os alaba Inglaterra, será inglés,
si os habla mal de Prusia, es un francés,
y si habla mal de España, es español.

Translation going something like:
Listening how a man speaks, it's easy to know where he was born
if he compliments England, he's English
if speaks badly about Prussia, he's French
if speaks badly about Spain, he's Spanish

What else can I say? I'm Spanish

Nice one Kellhound

I will add "¡Oh Dios, qué buen vasallo si tuviese buen Señor! ". Mmmmmm... the translation may be... What a good vassal If he had a good lord... When I read about the history of Spain after the Middle Age, the shame and frustration hidden in this sentence seems to be a constant presence. I think it is specially true in our military history and I had the same feeling while in the army.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Targan

Well I'm Australian so what can I say? We're all keen of eye and wit, strong of limb, fine featured and effusively gregarious. Am I right? Huh?

Where'd everyone go?

Well, you seem quite gregarious...

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Targan left out that we Australians can be lazy, slow witted at times, too fanatical about sport, too quick to tear down people who are high achievers (i.e. tall poppy syndrome), too parochial and far too quick to get drunk or to bet on anything at all (e.g. betting on two flies walking up a wall, deciding to have a few drinks because... well we Australians don't actually care too much about reasons for drinking, we just do it - although not as much as many Eastern European countries).
We're very isolated and thus protected from the rest of the world due to our island continent status, this tends to make us willfully ignorant of anything outside our own realm simply because "it can't really affect us". This then tends to make us too full of our own security and self importance.
We also take far too much pride in the notion that our ancestors were convicts.
We have some very good scientists but we never encourage them (the government controlled & funded CSIRO is woefully underfunded) and we steadfastly refuse to invest in our own scientific discoveries.
Our trade unions can be as militant, lazy, deceitful, law-breaking and troublesome as any British trade union.
And lastly, we have a very bad tendency to encourage free speech except when you criticize something Australian (then you are evil, unAustralian or a bloody foreign troublemaker).

However, don't attack our friends/allies because we are usually very quick to jump into the fight (although that can be both good and bad).
Don't ever think that just because our military is small we won't fight hard or put up with hardship.
We make sparkling wine that is so good it annoys the French vintners!
Don't underestimate our ability to do hard work because we seem lazy or spend too much time at the beach. We would usually like to work at full throttle to get something finished so that we can then spend the maximum time relaxing after the job is done. If that means a lot of grimy or hard work or finishing the job at 3AM to make sure it is done, then so be it.
And finally, just because the British colonized this country do not ever think that we simply follow everything the British do and we model ourselves after them, we take great pride in reminding the British that we are not British!

Besides, we have the best beaches in the world, why wouldn't we want to be lazy beachbums? Except in Sydney, the beaches in Sydney are crap

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

We make sparkling wine that is so good it annoys the French vintners!

I didn't know about the sparkling wine but I love your beers and your regular wines. At least, when I was in US I had something good and not too expensive to drink. At the time for the sparkling wine I was mostly drinking cava made in Catalunya.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

I didn't know about the sparkling wine but I love your beers and your regular wines. At least, when I was in US I had something good and not too expensive to drink. At the time for the sparkling wine I was mostly drinking cava made in Catalunya.

And probably produced in my own Village, Sant SadurnÃ*. I'm happy to read it, Mo. Nearly everyone in my village earns their live (direcly or indirectly) with the Cava. My mother works in a winery, my faher is an enologist (and a very good one, IMHO), my father-in-law produce his own cava, my uncle transport wine in his truck...Even the electrical diagrams that I'm about to finish are for an important cava producer (Freixenet). Now that the grape harvest is nearly finished everything will go back to normality for a time. It's always a happy period of hard work and intense activity. My region in all its fullness and vitality.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Marc

And probably produced in my own Village, Sant SadurnÃ*. I'm happy to read it, Mo. Nearly everyone in my village earns their live (direcly or indirectly) with the Cava. My mother works in a winery, my faher is an enologist (and a very good one, IMHO), my father-in-law produce his own cava, my uncle transport wine in his truck...Even the electrical diagrams that I'm about to finish are for an important cava producer (Freixenet). Now that the grape harvest is nearly finished everything will go back to normality for a time. It's always a happy period of hard work and intense activity. My region in all its fullness and vitality.

I know everything about what you are talking about but I'm supposed to be the opposing force: my family is involved in champagne business. I had my own business about ten years ago before I walked away from all that (I was buying wines and grapes to producers and selling it to big businesses). Nevertheless, I'll be selling my mother's champagne again this winter. Harvest has always been the best of times and a lot of fun since i was a kid.

However, unlike most people involved with champagne I'm not always saying that champagne is the best, there are terrible ones (my mother's is the best and I'm being serious).

The best present the champagne region made to the Cava region (and to every other sparkling wine regions) was to forbid everyone to refer to a "methode champenoise". Since that time, every one else has grown and improved qualities.

[Jason]

Cool Thread. I will add my personal U.S. opinion. I have never been overseas, but I have worked with many foriegn-born people.

U.S. I do not have children myself, but the OP has a point about the way we raise our kids. Of course, the majority of American children enjoy loving households, but far too many grow up extemely poor, hungry, homeless, or abused. Our education system is meh. Our public schools do graduate some exceptionally well educated youngsters, while again failing those on the margins. American foriegn policy is...kind of...hmmm. But, hold on, Americans are also some the the most charitable people in the world. When other countries suffer natural catastrophies, American rescue teams and relief organizations are some of the first to offer their aid. Not really sure about the watching the neighbors comment however. I have only lived in the West/Midwest, but out here we give our nieghbors plenty of privacy. There is actually some criticism that we are too clanish at times. We do have some good food, thanks to people settling here from around the world. Speaking of food, we export alot of corn, wheat, etc. to feed the world.

France! I like the French. They are some of the bravest fighters in history. In WWI, French soldiers mutinied only for better conditions, and despite the horrific losses, those soldiers still went over the top. I have not met many French people, but I know some people who have lived and studied in France. I am told that the French are nice to my visitiing American friends and family. I don't really drink wine. *ducks*

Brits. Where would we be without them? I have met and spent time with a few English, and always found them to be engaging and intielligent. And good drinkers. One of my favorite quotes was shouted at me by a British guy who was carrying two cases of Budwiser into a party, "American beer is piss!". Yeah. High culture and punks. The Queen and soccer riots.

Poles. I have worked with some Poles, they are super nice, and inquisitive. They were always improving their English, reading newspapers, and making freinds. Proud of their Nationality and culture. Good food.

Russians/former U.S.S.R. Well, to be fair, as with all my other interactions with foriegn-born friends, I have met and interacted with people who have traveled to the U.S. to work and/or study. So, most of the Russian and Kazak's I know are in the U.S. to avoid mandatory military service. If they stay long enough, they age out. Super nice guys who love to help out. They do like the ladies and flirt very overtly. Nazim is a friend of mine, and came over for Thanksgiving once. Not afraid to point out the good and bad of their homecountries.

Africans. The African men I have worked closely with are among the nicest people I have ever met. They have real interest in my life and affairs, and always wish me prosperity, good health, etc. I saw a guy I worked with two years ago, and he inquired after my mother's health in a wonderful way.

That is about it from Omaha.

[mikeo80]

I live near and work at Fort Bragg, NC, USA. Home of the 82nd Airborn.

In the course of a week I probably run across a little bit of everything from soldiers training at Fort Bragg to husbands and wives of soldiers who are from other countries.

It is a very learning experience!!! Most people I have had dealings with are just that, people. No better, no worse that any one else. There are exceptions, however the majority are people who need to do their job as they see it, and my job is to help them as best I can.

Mike

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Jason

Of course, the majority of American children enjoy loving households, but far too many grow up extemely poor, hungry, homeless, or abused.

I realize that i wasn't clear on that one. What I said was not directed at american's habilty to raise children. They are doing as well as everyone else IMO. However, I can't accept the risk to have the old lady next door sending child care in my house because she thinks I'm too hard on them. Intervening on the side of children being abused is fine but there should be some limits. We are taking the same path but we have not gone so far yet.

For everything else nothing is perfect. And I wish to send my daughters to US universities (I'll simply keep warning them about rape and football teams)

Originally Posted by Jason

Poles. I have worked with some Poles, they are super nice, and inquisitive. They were always improving their English, reading newspapers, and making freinds. Proud of their Nationality and culture. Good food.

Forget about those I married one and ask for divorce after a few years. Still don't understand why anyone wants to control Poland, they are simply a pain. Actually, I'm not sure to understand why I married one. I'll answer that in a couple centuries.

Originally Posted by Jason

Africans. The African men I have worked closely with are among the nicest people I have ever met. They have real interest in my life and affairs, and always wish me prosperity, good health, etc. I saw a guy I worked with two years ago, and he inquired after my mother's health in a wonderful way.

I agree with you. My cousin's wife is great. However, they are often poluted by their own family and their strongest point is often their weakest. However, in T2K, they should be doing fine in the end. I agree about ethnic wars but after a while they would stop and they are the most inventive people I ever met. They get TV working in the middle of nowhere. They keep cars running that would be scrapped anywhere else in the world. System D is their moto (Our president had his bank account robbed by people from senegal, LOL). Anyway, the Twilight War wouldn't change much for them. I'm not even sure that ethnic war would last very long.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

Most people I have had dealings with are just that, people. No better, no worse that any one else. T

Mike

Well said! That's also why I have started that thread. I know some nationalities well but I'll be very ignorant of others. A part of my job is also to help people and I'm bored by the so-call powerful of the world. Any citizen of any country is more interesting to me that the most powerful or the smallest president on Earth. (IMO of course)

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Targan

Well I'm Australian so what can I say? We're all keen of eye and wit, strong of limb, fine featured and effusively gregarious. Am I right? Huh?

Where'd everyone go?

I'm still here.....I think....

I have met a few from "Down Under". Good people as far as I was concerned.

BTW... I love a good, cold Fosters!!!!!

Mike

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

Well said! That's also why I have started that thread. I know some nationalities well but I'll be very ignorant of others. A part of my job is also to help people and I'm bored by the so-call powerful of the world. Any citizen of any country is more interesting to me that the most powerful or the smallest president on Earth. (IMO of course)

I agree 100%!! Have had to deal with a few American style politicians...

I would much rather spend hours getting to know a real person vs. a "professional politician" for two minutes.

Mike

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

Well said! That's also why I have started that thread. I know some nationalities well but I'll be very ignorant of others. A part of my job is also to help people and I'm bored by the so-call powerful of the world. Any citizen of any country is more interesting to me that the most powerful or the smallest president on Earth. (IMO of course)

I must admit that I time ago, I had the same idea about to initiate a thread like this. This forum, besides the Twilight:2000, is a good way to know people from all around the world. For example, I’d never talked with an Australian, a Norwegian or an American before… And a lot of questions emerge in my mind while reading the posts of people from countries I’ve never been. I love to ask questions and sometimes I’m too enthusiastic (GURPS disadvantage: Curiosity), but sometimes one realizes that some questions, though asked in an innocent, sincere and disinterested way, can cause rough answers. The same could be said about stereotypes and myths commonly assigned to a country by the foreigners and any personal opinions about the matter.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

BTW... I love a good, cold Fosters!!!!!

Oh you poor, poor misguided fool!
Fosters is the rubbish we ship overseas because it's just not good enough for Australians to drink.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Oh you poor, poor misguided fool!
Fosters is the rubbish we ship overseas because it's just not good enough for Australians to drink.

Yes but don't forget it's much but really much better than budweiser. If you have bud in Australia, they still get the best part of the deal.

By the way, how did we get from people to beers????

[Cdnwolf]

You forgot us poor Canadians... imagine have Americans as YOUR neighbors!!

[Mohoender]

Hey they are not that bad and they are largely contributing to Canada's incom.

At least in Montreal that US students from Vermont visit weekly to drink alcohol and for commercial sex (nice St Catherine street you have there).

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Oh you poor, poor misguided fool!
Fosters is the rubbish we ship overseas because it's just not good enough for Australians to drink.

Well, Legbreaker, send us poor sots some of your best!

On the other hand you may not want to do that. Just think of the illegal immigrants you will have trying to crash into Aussie land to drink your GOOD beer.

Mike

[Kellhound]

I think Belgians win us all on beer quality.

On a trip I made to Brussels and the Bastogne area a couple years ago I tasted a lot of different types and brands of beer, and all were good.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Kellhound

I think Belgians win us all on beer quality.

I definitely agree to that. So I'll be singing the Brabançone today instead of the Marseillaise.