The Royal Army of Scotland

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by James Langham

Thanks for the comments, much appreciated.

No problem. I appreciate that whilst I'm still discussing the RAS I may be drifting away from the intent of your thread, which was to expand on what is in canon...whereas I may be looking at more from the perspective of the flaws in that canon material...as a Scot I can't help but look at it and wonder how realistic some of it is...for example I have doubts about how many RAF / RN personnel will want to throw their lot in with an independent Scotland given that majority of them are going to be English. There probably wont be enough Marines left at Condor to resist if the RAS attacks in strength, but I'm not so sure about the Navy and RAF bases - at best I think some of them would remain neutral, at worst they are going to stay loyal to the Crown. It's probably possible RAS forces could "beseige" them and effectively starve them out, but that's going to take time and manpower. And if the RAF have enough fuel to get a Tornado airborne that could cause the RAS a World of hurt...so apologies if I'm derailing the thread slightly...

That said...looking at it from the point of view of how to expand on canon...

Originally Posted by James Langham

Bear in mind the RAS does not have large numbers to oppose it, the marauder groups are actually quite small and untrained. I will probably expand the militia from the 2001 level. Militia will be armed with a real mix, at best SLRs, often .303s and some shotguns. Ammunition will be in short supply. Uniform will be armband at the start, probably with self-bought military surplus kit. Numbers may well be limited by availability of weapons though.

Fair enough, but there could still be a fair amount of law enforcement to be done...there are a few towns in central Scotland that have areas that are "dodgy" (to put it politely)...there's likely to be a fair amount of friction in some of these places with local strongmen trying to seize power, that sort of thing. That's where I think the manpower quoted in canon is somehwat optimistic to control all of Scotland. What I'd be inclined to do is have the standing force 2000 strong and have another 2,000 (or so) serving as part time Militia. Assuming the sailors come over, control of the Navy base at Rosyth would give a firm grip of the southern half of Fife (and dependent on how much damage you want to inflict may give the Scots control of a dock large enough for an Illustrious Class aircraft carrier or a big ferry (IRL a RO / RO ferry sailed between Rosyth and Zeebrugge for a number of years, whilst cruise liners have also called in). From Kinloss and Lossiemouth you'd have a great base to secure the Highlands (there's also an Army base at Fort George, which is only about ten miles from Inverness - chances are an HSF Company would be based there from whichever of the 51st Highland Battalions affiliated to the Queen's Own Highlanders). Leuchars is in northern Fife, so with Leuchars and Rosyth under control you've probably got Fife. I discussed Glencorse in my last post - with a Battalion in there you're in good shape to control the eastern Borders (and protect against incursions from England). Put at least one Battalion in Stirling and you can reach into the Central Belt (which was home to a lot of hi tech manufacturing sites for companies like Motorola, NEC, and IBM). I think you'd need a Battalion in South West Scotland as well, maybe in somewhere like Dumfries, to control the region and guard against anyone coming into the area from northwest England - you wouldn't want some marauder horde working their way north from what's left of Greater Manchester / Lancs.

Originally Posted by James Langham

RN - I will probably add a note putting many in the Engineering Rgt or the Amphibious Squadron. Most of the RAF will probably gravitate to the RAF Rgt or the Engineering Rgt. The conventional bombing raid could make a good short article in that it's own right. The RM will probably gravitate to the Rapid Action Force.

I may have one base refuse and a firefight break out.

This thread has reminded me that I still have some work to do on my own (non canon) Separatist piece...I intend to have a small number of Condor Marines running around causing general mischief...

Originally Posted by James Langham

I considered as many options as I could for the names, individuals didn't feel right as it is the regiments that tend to have the glory. Any names you can suggest are welcome. If you have a better option please let me know.

Really useful comments, thank you.

I have been racking my brains trying to think of suitable names other than those that you already have such as Bannockburn, Flodden, etc and to be honest I can't think of any. I'm sure if I googled Jacobite Battles or someething similar I could come up with some, but that obviously wouldn't be an option in post apoc Scotland circa Feb 1998, so didn't go down that road.

What I would suggest is trying to tie the Battalions in with their traditional recruiting areas. For example, the Gordon Highlanders recruited from Aberdeen and Angus, the Black Watch recruited from Fife, Perth, and Tayside, etc, so I'd suggest something along the lines of 1st Battalion (Black Watch), Royal Army of Scotland for the Battalion covering the Black Watch recruiting area, 2nd Battalion (Royal Scots), Royal Army of Scotland for the Battalion covering Edinburgh and the Lothians, etc, etc. That way you're taping into the Regimental names (as you say, it's the Regiment that gets the glory). You could follow the British Army order of precedence if you wished, which would make the Royal Scots first in line. But for Companies, I'm stuck with straightforward 1 Company, 2 Company, etc, etc. Or maybe place names, e.g. 1 (Fife) Company, 2 (Perthshire) Company, etc.

Cheers

[simonmark6]

There are several inconsistencies in the UK Survivor's book that are very difficult to reconcile.

The one that gets me is the break down of the population: it says the prewar population was 56 million with 80% English, 9% Scottish, 4% Irish and 2% Welsh with about 5% being of other origins. It then goes on to say that in the post war UK about 25% of people speak Welsh. That either means that casualties in the rest of the UK were about 90%+ with very few Welsh speakers dying, or Plaid Cymru have been involved in a massive re-education policy that has spread the Welsh language well beyond its borders. Or, the writers screwed up their Maths.

In 1996 there were about 700,000 Welsh speakers, if that's 25% of the UK's 2001 population, the UK is rally screwed, down to what, about 2.8 million?

[Canadian Army]

Here are few regiment suggestions:

Infantry:

The Royal Scots
The Royal Scots Fusiliers
The King's Own Scottish Borderers
The Scottish Regiment of Foot Guards
The Cameronian Regiment

Cavalry:

Royal Regiment of Scots Dragoons
4th Troop of Horse Guards

Militia:

Lonach Highlanders
Atholl Highlanders
Manus O'Cahan's Regiment of Foot
Royal Company of Archers
Lovat Scouts
Glasgow Highlanders
Highland Light Infantry

French Advisors:

Garde Écossaise

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Canadian Army

French Advisors:

Garde Écossaise

I like the sound of Français Expéditionnaire Groupe Écosse (which I think is French Expeditionary Group, Scotland).

I don't think the canon material specifically states one way or the other whether there are any French advisors active in Scotland though.

[Canadian Army]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

I like the sound of Français Expéditionnaire Groupe Écosse (which I think is French Expeditionary Group, Scotland).

I don't think the canon material specifically states one way or the other whether there are any French advisors active in Scotland though.

I was referring to man who once said "I think in some areas you could see proxy warfare taking place, with factions armed / equipped by the French fighting factions supported by other countries. One example of that could be in Scotland if French backed Scottish separatists became engaged in combat with British Government troops."

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.p...nt+Europe+2001

[James Langham]

Originally Posted by Canadian Army

I was referring to man who once said "I think in some areas you could see proxy warfare taking place, with factions armed / equipped by the French fighting factions supported by other countries. One example of that could be in Scotland if French backed Scottish separatists became engaged in combat with British Government troops."

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.p...nt+Europe+2001

I can see the practice of dispatching a few officers on "leave" could be the way the French do it. Clandestine arms shipments could be another (mainly of foreign equipment).

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Canadian Army

I was referring to man who once said "I think in some areas you could see proxy warfare taking place, with factions armed / equipped by the French fighting factions supported by other countries. One example of that could be in Scotland if French backed Scottish separatists became engaged in combat with British Government troops."

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.p...nt+Europe+2001

LOL...I was that man.

Personally I've always advocated a covert French presence in Scotland, I was just stressing that is my own view and isn't referenced in the canon UK material (one way or the other).

[Canadian Army]

I found this the other day thought you might want to added it.

One O'Clock Gun
The One O'Clock Gun is a time signal, and is fired every day at precisely 13:00, excepting Sunday, Good Friday and Christmas Day. The gun was established in 1861 as a time signal for ships in the Firth of Forth, and complemented the time ball, which was installed on the Nelson Monument in 1852, but which was useless during foggy weather.

The gun; a Ordnance QF 25 pounder; is fired from Mill's Mount Battery, on the north face of the castle, by the District Gunner from 105th Regiment Royal Artillery (Volunteers). The original gun was an 18-pound muzzle-loading cannon, which needed four men to load, and was fired from the Half Moon Battery. This was replaced in 1913 by a 32-pound breech-loader, and in May 1952 by a 25-pound Howitzer

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by simonmark6

...then goes on to say that in the post war UK about 25% of people speak Welsh.

My guess is there is a decimal point that needs shifting one place. Should work at 2.5%.
Just a typo - they happen....

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

My guess is there is a decimal point that needs shifting one place. Should work at 2.5%.
Just a typo - they happen....

Either that or the Welsh National Voluntary Army is about to overrun England and the English are making preparations to be able to communicate with their new Welsh Overlords.

Cymru Am Byth...

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Either that or the Welsh National Voluntary Army is about to overrun England and the English are making preparations to be able to communicate with their new Welsh Overlords.

That works for me too.

[simonmark6]

Da iawn

2.5% works almost perfectly.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

What I would suggest is trying to tie the Battalions in with their traditional recruiting areas. For example, the Gordon Highlanders recruited from Aberdeen and Angus, the Black Watch recruited from Fife, Perth, and Tayside, etc, so I'd suggest something along the lines of 1st Battalion (Black Watch), Royal Army of Scotland for the Battalion covering the Black Watch recruiting area, 2nd Battalion (Royal Scots), Royal Army of Scotland for the Battalion covering Edinburgh and the Lothians, etc, etc. That way you're taping into the Regimental names (as you say, it's the Regiment that gets the glory). You could follow the British Army order of precedence if you wished, which would make the Royal Scots first in line. But for Companies, I'm stuck with straightforward 1 Company, 2 Company, etc, etc. Or maybe place names, e.g. 1 (Fife) Company, 2 (Perthshire) Company, etc.

Cheers

Elaborating slightly on my earlier suggestion...

The Scottish Horse (Armoured)
HQ Stirling Castle
Area of Operations: Deployed in support of other Battalions as necessary
AFV’s: 4 Chieftain MBT’s, 5 Scorpion CVR(T)’s

Rapid Action Force
HQ Stirling Castle
Area of Operations: Deployed in support of other Battalions as necessary

1st Infantry Battalion, Royal Army of Scotland (Royal Scots)
HQ Stirling Castle
Area of Operations: Central Scotland

Formed from elements of the 2nd Battalion, 52nd Lowland Volunteers (TA).

2nd Infantry Battalion, Royal Army of Scotland (Royal Highland Fusiliers)
HQ: Dumfries
Area of Operations: Ayrshire, Dumfries and Galloway

3rd Infantry Battalion, Royal Army of Scotland (King’s Own Scottish Borderers)
HQ Glencorse Barracks, Penicuik.
Area of Operations: Lothian and Borders

Formed from elements of the 2nd Battalion, 52nd Lowland Volunteers (TA). Includes a large number of recruits who were undergoing basic training at Glencorse at the time of the nuclear strikes

4th Infantry Battalion, Royal Army of Scotland (Black Watch)
HQ: RAF Leuchars
Area of Operations: Fife, Perthshire

5th Infantry Battalion, Royal Army of Scotland (Highlanders)
HQ: Fort George, Inverness
Area of Operations: Highlands

6th Infantry Battalion, Royal Army of Scotland (Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders)
HQ Stirling Castle
Area of Operations: Central Scotland

Formed from elements of the 3rd Battalion, 51st Highland Volunteers (TA)

1st Support Battalion, Royal Army of Scotland
HQ Stirling Castle
Includes elements of the RLC and REME. Heavily augmented by civilian volunteers

This does set up a scenario where the British and Scottish Armies are both fielding similarly named formations.

I'd personally be inclined to have Rosyth subjected to such heavy conventional bombing that the RN have pulled out completely. (I seem to recall having read somewhere a theory that HMG pull all forces out of Scotland at some point in time, thus removing the RAF and RN from the equation. I can't find a reference to it in the SGUK, so think it may have been on the etranger site somewhere. It does seem to be to be a more likely option than having large numbers of English airmen and sailors joining a Separatist Scottish Army).