4th Economics 101

[kalos72]

I LOVE what you guys are trying to do here but...and this is a question on their numbers not your efforts.

Am I reading that between cows and chickens you will need almost 40000 hectares of land? Thats like 150 square miles...thats not possible. Is it?

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by kalos72

I LOVE what you guys are trying to do here but...and this is a question on their numbers not your efforts.

Am I reading that between cows and chickens you will need almost 40000 hectares of land? Thats like 150 square miles...thats not possible. Is it?

That is grazing land..... there are ranches it takes a whole day to drive across out here in the West.

[kalos72]

I get that, but it seem feasible for 36 LE/Military personnel to be able to secure 155 square miles alone?

Just seems like an awful lot of land to feed 5000 people. I wonder how that same community would fair with a more advance tech level...

[mmartin798]

The economics rules do not change the amount of land needed based on tech level. Only the number of workers needed to tend them. Plus you have to remember the purpose of the exercise was to build according to the rules, and some of them are broken.

To give an idea, the number of cattle Sommerset has can be calculated. The beef operation generates 50,000 kg of beef for the population. That is only 10% of the total herd. So multiply by 10 and you get 500,000 kg if you slaughtered the entire herd. An average 454 kg steer will yield about 340 kg of meat. Dividing 500,000 by 340 gives around 1465 head of cattle. The USDA recommendations for land per animal is about 0.8 Ha per head. So in the real world you should be able to get away with 1200 Ha. The rules say 2-10 Ha per head, so 3000 Ha on the low end and 15000 Ha on the high end. The rules are a little broken if we try to bend real world absolutes into it. This section of the rules could use an edit to make it better. But for now, it is what we have.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by mmartin798

The economics rules do not change the amount of land needed based on tech level. Only the number of workers needed to tend them. Plus you have to remember the purpose of the exercise was to build according to the rules, and some of them are broken.

To give an idea, the number of cattle Sommerset has can be calculated. The beef operation generates 50,000 kg of beef for the population. That is only 10% of the total herd. So multiply by 10 and you get 500,000 kg if you slaughtered the entire herd. An average 454 kg steer will yield about 340 kg of meat. Dividing 500,000 by 340 gives around 1465 head of cattle. The USDA recommendations for land per animal is about 0.8 Ha per head. So in the real world you should be able to get away with 1200 Ha. The rules say 2-10 Ha per head, so 3000 Ha on the low end and 15000 Ha on the high end. The rules are a little broken if we try to bend real world absolutes into it. This section of the rules could use an edit to make it better. But for now, it is what we have.

Thinking on this........ Maybe the authors data accounts for rather dry low country like Texas or Australia. If so that raises the land necessary for graze substantially higher.... In a temperate environment or a wetter one like coastal low lands were the foliage is thick and returns faster alot less territory is necessary.

So the hectares section really should have a geographical or environmental modifier associated with it.

Given the wide variable of 2-10 hectares, it is probably meant too.

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Thinking on this........ Maybe the authors data accounts for rather dry low country like Texas or Australia. If so that raises the land necessary for graze substantially higher.... In a temperate environment or a wetter one like coastal low lands were the foliage is thick and returns faster alot less territory is necessary.

So the hectares section really should have a geographical or environmental modifier associated with it.

Given the wide variable of 2-10 hectares, it is probably meant too.

That would also explain in part the need for additional feed with the low quality foraging available that climate too.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by mmartin798

That would also explain in part the need for additional feed with the low quality foraging available that climate too.

Feed lots are a staple in wet or dry climates.... so I take it that the feed lot.... the last effort to fatten up livestock before slaughter is why corn is prevalent for animals that graze for most of their fodder.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by kalos72

I get that, but it seem feasible for 36 LE/Military personnel to be able to secure 155 square miles alone?

Just seems like an awful lot of land to feed 5000 people. I wonder how that same community would fair with a more advance tech level...

One Riot, One Ranger.

The Texas Rangers comes to mind.

Actually, you only have to secure key points of land. The water, water crossings, the herd itself.

You don't have to be on every part of it all the time.