Really bad weapons...

[Mahatatain]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

The first time I fired the L98A1, the cadet version of the SA-80/L85, the cocking handle came off in my hand. This was a brand new rifle, fresh out of the box Never really had any faith in the rifle after that, something that ws further borne out by my experience with the L85.

How ever, as a quantifier to that I have heard much better things about the A2, although I've never used it.

The L85A2 is reputed to be a much more reliable and better weapon after H&K got involved and sorted out the mess that was the L85A1:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L85A2#S...d_modification

I've never fired one myself however so I can't speak from personal experience.

I have read on the T2013 forums however that the L85A1 has an "unreliable" flaw on it (in terms of game mechanics) that the L85A2 doesn't and the guys there working out the game mechanics of different weapons certainly seem to know their stuff.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Mahatatain

The L85A2 is reputed to be a much more reliable and better weapon after H&K got involved and sorted out the mess that was the L85A1:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L85A2#S...d_modification

I've never fired one myself however so I can't speak from personal experience.

I have read on the T2013 forums however that the L85A1 has an "unreliable" flaw on it (in terms of game mechanics) that the L85A2 doesn't and the guys there working out the game mechanics of different weapons certainly seem to know their stuff.

They aren't quite as wise as it would appear, the problem with their ruling is that the L85A1 was reliable until it was used in sandy and/or very dusty conditions. In a typical European setting (and in jungles) it was as reliable as any other average rifle.
The worst faults of the weapon aren't addressed at all by any game system as far as I'm aware - magazine catch releasing at inopportune times (until they put a guard around the catch), plastic parts breaking, the issue insect repellent melting the plastic parts, the takedown pins coming completely free from the weapon and thereby being easy to lose and finally, the working parts literally fly out the reciever when you disassemble the weapon (unless you're ready for it and keep your hand over the opening.

[Legbreaker]

The issue insect repellent for the Australian army back in the late 80's and 90's also had the reputation of melting plastic used in the F88 Steyr AUG. It was also said to be carcinogenic (causes cancer).
Mind you, two drops were more than sufficient to keep mosquitoes at bay even in the thickest of jungles or the wetest of swamps.

[perardua]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

They aren't quite as wise as it would appear, the problem with their ruling is that the L85A1 was reliable until it was used in sandy and/or very dusty conditions. In a typical European setting (and in jungles) it was as reliable as any other average rifle.
The worst faults of the weapon aren't addressed at all by any game system as far as I'm aware - magazine catch releasing at inopportune times (until they put a guard around the catch), plastic parts breaking, the issue insect repellent melting the plastic parts, the takedown pins coming completely free from the weapon and thereby being easy to lose and finally, the working parts literally fly out the reciever when you disassemble the weapon (unless you're ready for it and keep your hand over the opening.

Having used both the L85A1 (as a cadet), and the L85A2 (as a soldier on ops in Afghanistan), I feel pretty confident in saying that the difference between the two is enormous. The one experience I had with the A1 was pretty awful, whereas the only stoppages I've ever had with an A2 have been down to damaged magazines, which are pretty rare thanks to the more durable metal HK ones that replaced the old plastic Radway Green ones.

All of the above faults have been fixed, as far as I am aware. To my mind, the recoil rod and spring assembly 'flying out the receiver when you disassemble the weapon' is not an issue. Anyone correctly trained to strip and disassemble it won't find it a problem, and I'd have rather have a spring that pushes the bolt forward effectively and avoids the A1's problem of being a bit anemic with chambering a new round.

Anyway, if you want to see bits of weapon flying around, try watching some strip a cocked GPMG. Tis hilariously dangerous.

Several USAF Security Forces personnel on a recent exercise with us also felt the L85A2 was more reliable than our M4s, though comparing their cleaning regime with ours led me to suspect that the frequency with which we cleaned our weapons may have had something to do with it.

The L85A2's biggest problem is that memories of the A1 pretty much ruined it's reputation outside of the British forces, hence a lot of servicemen I know have had to try and defend the weapon to concerned civvies who come up to us at public displays and things and tell us our weapon's crap. It's really not any more.

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by perardua

The L85A2's biggest problem is that memories of the A1 pretty much ruined it's reputation outside of the British forces, hence a lot of servicemen I know have had to try and defend the weapon to concerned civvies who come up to us at public displays and things and tell us our weapon's crap. It's really not any more.

Perardua,

It's a bit like the bad rep the M16 earned in Vietnam. Not undeserved but a thing of the past. It would be nice if there was some kind of snappy comeback for twits slagging the L85A2!

Tony

[Canadian Army]

A bad weapon and, yet, at the same time good one is a Punt Gun.

"A punt gun is a type of extremely large shotgun used in the 19th and early 20th centuries for shooting large numbers of waterfowl for commercial harvesting operations and private sport; A single shot could kill over 50 waterfowl resting on the water's surface. Punt guns were usually custom-designed and so varied widely, but could have bore diameters exceeding 2 inches (51 mm) and fire over a pound (0.5 kilos) of shot at a time. They were too big to hold and the recoil so large that they were mounted directly on the punts; a type of boat; used for hunting, hence their name." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punt_gun

[TiggerCCW UK]

There's a 4 Gauge punt gun in the museum in Ayscoughfee Hall in Spalding Lincolnshire, where my sister lives. I have a look at it every time I'm in the museum and just have this urge to try it out.......

Its the sort of thing that could be pretty devastating on a pintle mount for defending a village or similar in T2K.

[Canadian Army]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

There's a 4 Gauge punt gun in the museum in Ayscoughfee Hall in Spalding Lincolnshire, where my sister lives. I have a look at it every time I'm in the museum and just have this urge to try it out.......

Its the sort of thing that could be pretty devastating on a pintle mount for defending a village or similar in T2K.

A 1995 survey done in the United Kingdom, showed fewer than 50 active punt guns still in use.

[LBraden]

The Royal Armouries up my end has one on display, as well as a few extra weapons, if any needs a few snaps, message me, I will see what I can do (as its about 4 quid for the train to get there)

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Canadian Army

A bad weapon and, yet, at the same time good one is a Punt Gun.

"A punt gun is a type of extremely large shotgun used in the 19th and early 20th centuries for shooting large numbers of waterfowl for commercial harvesting operations and private sport; A single shot could kill over 50 waterfowl resting on the water's surface.

The first thought that popped into mind, is where can I get one...and if I loaded it with a solid round instead of shot, just how much armor could it penetrate? The second thought that popped up was if i every fired this, just how many sheriff's deputys would show up...wanting to borrow it?

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

They aren't quite as wise as it would appear, the problem with their ruling is that the L85A1 was reliable until it was used in sandy and/or very dusty conditions. In a typical European setting (and in jungles) it was as reliable as any other average rifle.
The worst faults of the weapon aren't addressed at all by any game system as far as I'm aware - magazine catch releasing at inopportune times (until they put a guard around the catch), plastic parts breaking, the issue insect repellent melting the plastic parts, the takedown pins coming completely free from the weapon and thereby being easy to lose and finally, the working parts literally fly out the reciever when you disassemble the weapon (unless you're ready for it and keep your hand over the opening.

And this replaced the L1A1?!?! Somebody, somewhere has to love the procurement problem...just can't think of anyone!