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Old 04-17-2015, 03:25 PM
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Default Contact pack

The "Contact Pack" *contents thanks to Kato13

Hat, Felt, floppy "crusher", white in color 1
Bandana, Neckercheif, Red 1
Jacket, Denim, "Levis" 1
Shirt, Work, Cotton Flannel, Plaid in color 2
Boots, Hiking, Leather, "Kastinger" 1 Pair
Belt, Leather 1
Socks, Wool 4 Pair
Pack, Nylon 1
Pack, Nylon (contents listed)
Candles
Twine
Food, Canned 1 Days ration 3
Underwear
Pack and personal items, assorted
Flask, Hip, containing Scotch 12 oz
Revolver, M-29, Cal. .44 magnum w/ 6 1/2 bbl 1
Holster, Leather 1
Cartridge, .44 Magnum 50

Either
Carbine, Marlin 1894, Cal. 44 Magnum 1
Cartridge, .44 Magnum 30

Shotgun, Remington 870, 12 Guage 1
Shell, 12 Guage 30


I think collectively we can do better.

What do you think?

Third edition....

Fourth edition......

I think some things are missing that a "survivor" of a nuclear holocaust might have acquired.

a zippo, flint and steel, tinder box, geiger counter, potassium iodide, a first aid kit, wool blankets.........
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Old 04-18-2015, 05:56 PM
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Forgive me because I am unfamiliar with the details but...what are these packs used for?

Whats the purpose of a "contact pack" or team?
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Old 04-18-2015, 06:06 PM
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If a team does not want to roll into town fusion packs rumbling and 25mm cannons glinting they might send in a contact specialist into the town to scout things out.

This was extra equipment added to a team to allow for a member to look like a post apoc survivor rather than a highly trained paramilitary.
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Old 04-18-2015, 06:07 PM
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I don't think it was intended as a "survivors walkabout kit" but just a few items to allow the user to blend in better than in full military style kit.

It could be supplemented by stuff from the standard issue that all MP personal have. The sleeping bag, poncho, matches, pocket knife, M1 CBR and KCB-70 come to mind.
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Old 04-18-2015, 06:25 PM
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Understood thank you.

Did these contact people have special skills or guidelines?
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Old 04-18-2015, 06:45 PM
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I just get a kick out of the Marlin. I just bought one a few weeks ago in 30-30. And I keep all my ammo on bandoliers I bought at Cabela's last week.
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:06 PM
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Well in many ways a Contact kit needs to look used and be things that a survivor would generally find or had before a emergency. So Civilian clothes that are warm-Jeans, T-shirt, Flannel Shirt in colder climes, scrounged jacket-most likely leather or military jacket. Sleeping bag like something you would find at Dicks or Bass Pro Shop. Possibly a small tent, and worn shoes or boots. Weight will be key. Too much gear and a contact could get mugged for it all and make people wonder where they come from and how they got good gear.

Weapon wise I would say a single pistol of some type and a bolt action rifle or a shotgun. If a Contact shows up with a repeater or a semi automatic there is once again the possibility they might get mugged for it. Its best to reduce temptation and depend on the rest of the team for back up than have a contact get shot as soon as they show up because someone see's a fancy repeater and decides they want it.
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Old 04-18-2015, 10:47 PM
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In Operation Lucifer its clearly stated that the items look worn but are in perfect working condition.
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Old 04-19-2015, 10:56 AM
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In Operation Lucifer its clearly stated that the items look worn but are in perfect working condition.
Don't you feel that the pack is missing items that would make it a convincing disguise?
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Old 04-19-2015, 04:22 PM
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I took the kits contents from Operation Lucifer but I admit it is a little light.

I think we could add some the following as many are pretty small (these are items in my personal equipment packs as well)

Canteen 1 Liter Colapasable
Canteen 1 Liter Cover
Canteen 2 Liter
Canteen 2 Liter Cover
Canteen Cup & stand
Bath Tissue 2-Ply 550sheet, Roll
Mess Kit (Stainless KFS,pan,tray)
Knfie fork spoon
Mess Kit Bag
Can Opener (P-38) x 2
Bungee Cord x 2
Shelter Half
Wool Blanket
Single Edged Razor Blade x 10
Boot Knife
Swiss Army Knife
Leather Man tool (Pliers)
Leatherman Micra (Scissors)
Cigarette Lighter (Multifuel)
Magnesium Fire Starter
Lensatic Sighting Compass
Small Arms Cleaning Kit
Deck of Cards (Paper Box)
Die x2
Pencil x 3
Tactical Memo Book (3.5" x 6" / 60 pages)
Super Glue, Tube 3g .10 oz
Personal Defense Spray
Small Sewing Kit
Pacer Beads
Mini Binoculars

You might even add a few coins or other items from the trade packs depending on the situation.
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Old 04-19-2015, 05:15 PM
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Don't you feel that the pack is missing items that would make it a convincing disguise?
That depends both on the nature of the disguise and how long it is supposed to hold up. Neither are made clear in the books, but my best guess is "hobo" and "not tremendously long". If you don't first answer the questions "why am I here" and "who am I supposed to be, anyway" you can't really make a disguise that is going to do anything more than disguise Morrow affiliation... which I am pretty sure was the point anyway.

Personally, I would say that the designated contact people should have assembled their own pack so that the contents were unique but sensible to the individuals. Remember, they don't need to survive on this stuff more than a day or so, and they can always say that they just lost <insert vital gear here> a few days ago due to river/bandits/throwing-it-off-a-cliff!
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Old 04-19-2015, 05:26 PM
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I look at it that to well equipped the contact person leaves themselves open to harassment. Not everyone will have access to a canteen for instance. In fact that's a pretty rare piece of equipment unless you go out and look for one. Not everyone goes camping or has a army navy store nearby.
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Old 04-19-2015, 06:01 PM
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I think it all depends on the situation.

If you have a trading post type town having more might be ok.

The more im thinking about it the more I like the concept of pretending to be a refugee. Seeing how they treat someone who is helpless might be a good indicator of the general vibe of the town.
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Old 04-19-2015, 10:23 PM
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I did a test recently. Mostly because I was putting together a new Get Home Bag and I asked several of my friends if they had things I would consider essentials. Things like canteens and backpacks or sleeping bags and what not. Out of them all only two had any kind of preparations or gear. One is a avid camper so of course she was well equipped and the other had a backpack and that was it. Everyone is a refugee when the world ends these days. But very few are equipped to handle it. I like to think that a contact person needs to blend in, and in a world of refugee's then its time to dress like one.
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Old 04-20-2015, 11:11 PM
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I would expect a Contact Specialist from either Recon or Specialist Psy Ops to spend a few days with any group. Any judgements made in a few hours would be little more than snap judgements.

In this way, I feel the equipment has to fill the expectations. I, totally, agree that the Contact Specialist would have built the kit from thrift store purchases pre-War. This way the clothes would fit, the boots broken in, and the equipment would be familiar. Wouldn't want to be trying to use a flint & steel for the first time in front of new contacts.
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:47 PM
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I kind of wonder if the Project actually would set up training scenario's using a fake town and civilians and send in teams to train in contact scenario's and defensive ones. Possible even combat scenario's. Easier in earlier editions of course as satellite surveillance and all the tracking that happens in todays world wouldn't exist. Or would everything be classroom and hope for the best.
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:50 PM
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I kind of wonder if the Project actually would set up training scenario's using a fake town and civilians and send in teams to train in contact scenario's and defensive ones. Possible even combat scenario's. Easier in earlier editions of course as satellite surveillance and all the tracking that happens in todays world wouldn't exist. Or would everything be classroom and hope for the best.
Human Intelligence is best intelligence. You could do it pre-War.... Have a specialist minus long arms attempt infiltration of something like an art commune or logging camp.
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Old 04-21-2015, 09:10 PM
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I kind of wonder if the Project actually would set up training scenario's using a fake town and civilians and send in teams to train in contact scenario's and defensive ones. Possible even combat scenario's. Easier in earlier editions of course as satellite surveillance and all the tracking that happens in todays world wouldn't exist. Or would everything be classroom and hope for the best.
Read p22 through p23 of 4th edition. Start in right column p22 at "The Basic Course takes three months." until middle of left column p23 ending with "Once the team has reached this phase,...."
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Old 04-21-2015, 09:47 PM
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Don't you feel that the pack is missing items that would make it a convincing disguise?
Keep in mind it was intended for 5 years after the war. For that time frame and for a short term disguise its ok, not great but ok. It sure is better than nothing.

Sure its missing stuff, but a wanderer or traveller 5 years after WWIII would not have a complete kit, just what s/he could scrounge.
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Old 04-21-2015, 10:18 PM
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Keep in mind it was intended for 5 years after the war. For that time frame and for a short term disguise its ok, not great but ok. It sure is better than nothing.

Sure its missing stuff, but a wanderer or traveller 5 years after WWIII would not have a complete kit, just what s/he could scrounge.
Precisely! Most wanderers or travelers would never have any military gear but only civvie stuff and well worn stuff at that. Every sleep in a civvie tent for more than two weeks? They get torn up unless your careful.
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Old 04-21-2015, 10:45 PM
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Whether they have civilian gear or military is irrelevant - there will certainly be surplus military gear around, so a given traveler could easily have either. If it exists as an item of non-Morrow equipment, there is a plausible reason why a given traveler could have it or not have it.

The biggest problem for the contact person is not their gear, it is (at least the first time around) coming up with a reason why they are travelling in the first place, and explaining their inexplicable lack of knowledge about certain subjects. Remember, the contact person is not an emissary to some newly discovered aboriginal tribe, they are a distant cousin of that very same tribe, expected to share a certain degree of communal knowledge and experience.
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Old 04-21-2015, 10:47 PM
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Sure its missing stuff, but a wanderer or traveller 5 years after WWIII would not have a complete kit, just what s/he could scrounge.
Any traveler would either have a complete kit, be trying to settle down and avoid further travel, or be working to complete that kit. Post-apocalyptic travel is too slow, onerous, and dangerous for anyone to willingly try it without adequate gear.
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Old 04-22-2015, 08:48 PM
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Military or Civilian wouldn't bother anyone..... 95% of the people on the planet died. National Guard armories would be looted (no ammunition in State armories). Any soldiers, guardsmen, or reservists homes would turn up anything issued currently and surplus from the past.

What I think screams "FAKE!" is that the kit has nothing to cook with or eat with. There isn't even a can opener for the canned goods. There isn't anything to sleep under like a wool blanket. If you can't live out of the kit, then you look like your weren't meant to; this means spy.

Any survivors community would be suspicious just on account of raiders and thieves.
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Old 04-23-2015, 10:29 AM
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I think the pack should have well used equipment but have lots of options. It could have 300 items, but the specialist might only carry 20 of them if that is what the situation calls for.

I can see the specialist posing as
  • A refugee
  • A victim of local banditry
  • A wandering tradesman
  • A "bard"
  • A messenger
  • A beggar
  • A person looking for lost loved ones
  • A merchant (this makes more sense if the party has a horse)

Heck if they have good acting skills they might even portray a simpleton.

I always try to remember that the project expected contact to be five years after and had literally no idea what they would find, so I like flexibility.

Even though we had a 95% death rate there could still be a town with 10,000 people. That requires a different interaction plan than if you are dealing with the standard two street town as seen in so many westerns, where everyone knows everyone and a new face would draw much attention.
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:37 AM
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Me and some friends were talking about prepping and it was noted that walled towns would become a thing again. So fences and wrecked cars and the like would quickly go up around towns and such. With visitors being screened as they came in or allowed only outside a town in a designated trade area.
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Old 04-23-2015, 03:15 PM
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I agree that borders would be as solid as people could make them for a central secure area, but people could not stay in those areas all the time. They simply could not create borders large enough to enclose an area that would feed them. In many situations you end up with a mid-evil castle or western territory fort type situation IMO.

That was always my problem with the Road Warrior. Where is their food coming from?

If areas are producing surplus agriculture you could end up with a highly fortified section like found in the movie. Where those around the area trade food for "Juice", but your first interaction would probably be with someone in the farms surrounding any central secured point.

I should add the caveat that my thoughts are for a group of 5 year survivors. Over 150 years it would be possible to cover a significant border with protection, but then it still would be very difficult to have the manpower to patrol it all.
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Old 04-23-2015, 07:23 PM
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Actually we figured on a redoubt area. A mid sized reinforced area people could fall back to in a emergency and sleep and live in while agriculture remained outside as would merchants and the such. Most raiders are going to look for the easy to get stuff. Food, fuel. There not going to dig lima beans out of the ground or pick apples but go for the already picked stuff and the hoarded supplies.

We considered metal shipping containers filled with engine blocks and rocks and dirt for walls stacked two high for the walls. The bottom full of junk and weight and the top one full of murder holes and sleeping areas for guards.

These stacked across roads and in between buildings with a towns buildings being the bulk of the fortifications. A population could remain safe inside and counterattack and leave when its quiet for commerce and agriculture.
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Old 05-02-2015, 12:43 PM
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I look at it that to well equipped the contact person leaves themselves open to harassment. Not everyone will have access to a canteen for instance. In fact that's a pretty rare piece of equipment unless you go out and look for one. Not everyone goes camping or has a army navy store nearby.
I take a nalgene water bottle everywhere, but I have used 1 liter Mt. Dew bottles as canteens because they are disposable.

Might be my location...... Colorado is definitely and outdoor enthusiast state.

You can buy a nalgene bottle at just about any gas station/convenience store here..... These are even routine swag at expo booths.
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Old 05-02-2015, 06:42 PM
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I take a nalgene water bottle everywhere, but I have used 1 liter Mt. Dew bottles as canteens because they are disposable.

Might be my location...... Colorado is definitely and outdoor enthusiast state.

You can buy a nalgene bottle at just about any gas station/convenience store here..... These are even routine swag at expo booths.
Not here on the East Coast or at least South Jersey. People who enjoy the outdoors are a minority and those equipped for it even more so. I have friends who have a ton of gear, but none of it is suitable for backpacking or hiking but drive in stuff and there idea of bringing water is a small bottle of Poland Springs. I have a camping trip with some friends set for next week. My gear is packed and ready and fits on my back and except for an axe everything fits inside of the pack.
My friends on the other hand have several hundred pounds of gear, and expect to split it between the three of them in three packs. Quite a bit of it they don't need. I mean one girl has a eight man tent! It weighs thirty pounds and when I asked if she was bringing water I got told she has a few small bottles and would drink from the stream or the pump if she got thirsty. She's not the brightest bulb at the best of times but I expected her to be smarter than that.
People here expect to be able to drive in most of the time and the few walk in sites are usually empty except for one or two campers at a time. The drive in ones are always full.
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Old 05-02-2015, 08:28 PM
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Not here on the East Coast or at least South Jersey. People who enjoy the outdoors are a minority and those equipped for it even more so. I have friends who have a ton of gear, but none of it is suitable for backpacking or hiking but drive in stuff and there idea of bringing water is a small bottle of Poland Springs. I have a camping trip with some friends set for next week. My gear is packed and ready and fits on my back and except for an axe everything fits inside of the pack.
My friends on the other hand have several hundred pounds of gear, and expect to split it between the three of them in three packs. Quite a bit of it they don't need. I mean one girl has a eight man tent! It weighs thirty pounds and when I asked if she was bringing water I got told she has a few small bottles and would drink from the stream or the pump if she got thirsty. She's not the brightest bulb at the best of times but I expected her to be smarter than that.
People here expect to be able to drive in most of the time and the few walk in sites are usually empty except for one or two campers at a time. The drive in ones are always full.
Might in fact be regional.... Things can be a long drive here just to go shopping.... Denver Metro, you can have anything or get anything....live out on the Plains or in the Mountains and you can expect to drive hours to get it.

A blizzard here can mean empty shelves in grocery stores for seven to fourteen days on some items. It can also mean getting stuck because roads are closed.

Really, though outdoor activities ranks highly on most peoples reasons for living in Colorado... typically skiing, snowboarding, camping, hiking, and climbing with a lot of runners and cyclists too.
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