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Old 12-01-2008, 04:48 PM
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Default Rules about tracers.

A post in the Firing Ports thread (the use of tracers in the M231's) has awoken my curiosity.

Is anyone using any houserule / rule covering the use of tracers?
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Old 12-01-2008, 06:56 PM
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In what way for directing fire or damage? Because a tracer should do as much damage as a ball round except with the possibility of catching dry materials on fire.

As for directing fire every 5th round in a belt of machine gun ammo is supposed to be a tracer. The draw back to tracers is people can see where you are shooting from as well.

The 231 uses straight tracers as that is the only way to direct fire for it when its in the firing port. It's really cool to remove from the vehicle and use with beta C mags

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Old 12-02-2008, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother in Arms
In what way for directing fire or damage? Because a tracer should do as much damage as a ball round except with the possibility of catching dry materials on fire.

As for directing fire every 5th round in a belt of machine gun ammo is supposed to be a tracer. The draw back to tracers is people can see where you are shooting from as well.

The 231 uses straight tracers as that is the only way to direct fire for it when its in the firing port. It's really cool to remove from the vehicle and use with beta C mags

Brother in Arms
I was not thinking about the damage, but about the possibility of the firing character make corrections to his/her own fire. May be (I'm only know v2.2 rules) lowering one level in the automatic fire task (losing less bullets in a burst, the number depending of size of the burst). Or allowing the character to add a bonus to the "to hit" number in the following shot just after a tracer, in a SA weapon.

As you've said, the major drawback could be lowering one level any observation attempt against the firing character. Or turn it to an automatic task depending of the visibility conditions.
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Old 12-02-2008, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc
As you've said, the major drawback could be lowering one level any observation attempt against the firing character. Or turn it to an automatic task depending of the visibility conditions.
In Gunmaster if you are firing multiple rounds (whether it is autofire or other) and you can see the fall of shot the bonuses you get effectively help to negate the effects of recoil. Tracer rounds make that even easier.
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Old 12-02-2008, 07:16 AM
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It seems to me a good and reasonable solution. For Twilight v2.2 automatic fire rules, the completely negation of all the recoil effect seems to me a little to much, but a partial negation of these effects will work. Thanks for the suggestion, Targan!
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Old 12-02-2008, 09:55 AM
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FYI - I'll be the Targan to Twilight 2013 here


So far what i've seen in the Twilight 2013 rules is tracer ammo:

Increases 'threat level' for those that you are shooting at if you're trying to suppress an area. Seeing the bullets overhead as well as being shot at.

This comes into play for the CUF (coolness under fire) and you can supress the enemy and the enemy can suppress you - causing inaction or 'breaking'.

Also....

Using tracer ammo in consecutive attacks increases the chance of sucess by a little bit for each round you shoot at the same target using tracer ammo.

I think they are both Stage III rules
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:02 AM
leonpoi leonpoi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc View Post
I was not thinking about the damage, but about the possibility of the firing character make corrections to his/her own fire. May be (I'm only know v2.2 rules) lowering one level in the automatic fire task (losing less bullets in a burst, the number depending of size of the burst). Or allowing the character to add a bonus to the "to hit" number in the following shot just after a tracer, in a SA weapon.

As you've said, the major drawback could be lowering one level any observation attempt against the firing character. Or turn it to an automatic task depending of the visibility conditions.
I use v2.2 rules. For tracers I give +1 to hit with automatic fire after the first action of shooting. I find +1 is fine and given that automatic fire is 1/4 skill it adds a bonus without being overpowering.
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:05 PM
Abbott Shaull Abbott Shaull is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother in Arms View Post
In what way for directing fire or damage? Because a tracer should do as much damage as a ball round except with the possibility of catching dry materials on fire.

As for directing fire every 5th round in a belt of machine gun ammo is supposed to be a tracer. The draw back to tracers is people can see where you are shooting from as well.

The 231 uses straight tracers as that is the only way to direct fire for it when its in the firing port. It's really cool to remove from the vehicle and use with beta C mags

Brother in Arms
Oh, NO. Not remove the M231 from the vehicle to use as weapon. Runs and hide before that debates starts...lol
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:56 PM
HorseSoldier HorseSoldier is offline
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Tracer ammo is, I would think, exceedingly scarce by 2000. Probably to the point that most units just don't have any available at all or maybe keep some (and other pre-nuke small arms ammo) set aside for major conventional combat ops and use lower quality reloads for marauder suppression and small scale raids and such.

Machine gun sights are mostly pretty crappy if you're free gunning and not working a T&E on a tripod. MGs overcome this by using tracers -- so I wouldn't give a bonus for tracer use, I'd give a penalty for it's absence. The solution would be a spotter with optics calling fall off the shots and making adjustments.
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by HorseSoldier View Post
Machine gun sights are mostly pretty crappy if you're free gunning and not working a T&E on a tripod. MGs overcome this by using tracers -- so I wouldn't give a bonus for tracer use, I'd give a penalty for it's absence. The solution would be a spotter with optics calling fall off the shots and making adjustments.
Machineguns aren't really meant to be accurate in the conventional sense so the sights don't have to be as good as an individual rifle, their purpose after all is to throw a whole lot of lead into an area in a short space of time.

As for tracers, with the chance that an area being gunned up is also kicking up a lot of dust, tracers can help you walk onto target. The Viet Cong and NVA used to have shooters with magazines of 1:1 tracer on either flank of an attack group and then shoot into the target so night attacks could be coordinated.

Tracer ammunition can also be made in your own toolshed if you have the right chemicals and tools. There's an article here about making your own tracers.
Keep in mind that I mention this strictly for educational purposes
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Old 03-30-2011, 06:41 AM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic View Post
Machineguns aren't really meant to be accurate in the conventional sense so the sights don't have to be as good as an individual rifle, their purpose after all is to throw a whole lot of lead into an area in a short space of time.

As for tracers, with the chance that an area being gunned up is also kicking up a lot of dust, tracers can help you walk onto target. The Viet Cong and NVA used to have shooters with magazines of 1:1 tracer on either flank of an attack group and then shoot into the target so night attacks could be coordinated.

Tracer ammunition can also be made in your own toolshed if you have the right chemicals and tools. There's an article here about making your own tracers.
Keep in mind that I mention this strictly for educational purposes
Never really had that many problems with dust kicking up on the target, we always had it hammered into our semi-thick heads to fire short bursts of 2-3 seconds duration, then reacquire the target with the sights and let fly again. At the time I was in there were a lot of Vietnam vets still in service and almost to a man, they loathed tracers. "Sure they let you track in on the target, they also let the target track in on you." was a common comment on the ole firing range.

Boils down to what the gunner wanted to use, if there was time to prepare the belts, then tracers would be pulled. The real question is just how much time a unit reloading its own brass would spend in making tracers.
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Old 03-29-2011, 02:04 PM
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Oh, NO. Not remove the M231 from the vehicle to use as weapon. Runs and hide before that debates starts...lol
Sound of hatch slamming shut and a paniced scream of "NOT THE DISMOUNTED 231 AGAIN!!!!!!"

The horror, the inhumanity!!!

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Old 03-29-2011, 10:03 PM
Abbott Shaull Abbott Shaull is offline
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Sound of hatch slamming shut and a paniced scream of "NOT THE DISMOUNTED 231 AGAIN!!!!!!"

The horror, the inhumanity!!!

Yeah but it seems that GDW loved the idea. Strangely enough I would think many of these weapons that had survived would be stripped of anything that might be useful to keeping the M16s around operational.
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