Machineguns fire mode.

[Marc]

Bona nit!

In the v2.2 rulebook, in the chapter where the authors explain the meaning of parameters listed in the weapon data charts, they state that when a number appears in the ROF column, all the corresponding weapons are able to fire in SA mode or in automatic mode.

I'm quite ignorant about machineguns but I suspect that the above statement doesn't work for all of them them. For Paul's site I've seen that, for example, the Browning M-2HB has a dial that allows semiautomatic fire. Is this a common characteristic? Or,most normaly, the such a selector allows only to put the weapon to a "safe" position? I have the same doubt about the automatic rifles listed in the rulebook.

Thanks in advance!

[Legbreaker]

Many automatic weapons have only two settings - safe and burst.
The M60 for example, a weapon I am intimately familar with, is one of the above. However, even though it fires at 550 rounds per minute, or 9 per second, it is possible to fire single shots after just a few minutes practice. Don't count on the shots being as accurate as a rifle though as it was designed to spread the rounds about a little (not enough that you'd notice normally, but enough that you're not going to want to snipe with it).

The Bren gun was a little different. Although classified as a machinegun despite it's rather inadequate ammunition supply (magazines on a fully automatic weapon?), one of the greatest complaints I've heard about it was not the mags, nor the weight (it's a bit of a beast for an LMG) but the accuracy - it tends to actually put rounds from a burst in the same place!

[headquarters]

many HMGs and LMGs have only safe and fire mode .Full burst or nothing .Clipping bursts is possible ,but hard if you try to do it quickly and aim at the same time.

MG-3 has this set up .

Automatic rifles have safe-single-burst setting ,some also a 3-burst setting .

Some SMG like MP-40 have only safe and burst .

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

The M60 for example, a weapon I am intimately familar with, is one of the above. However, even though it fires at 550 rounds per minute, or 9 per second, it is possible to fire single shots after just a few minutes practice. Don't count on the shots being as accurate as a rifle though as it was designed to spread the rounds about a little (not enough that you'd notice normally, but enough that you're not going to want to snipe with it).

I actually have used it as a sniper rifle -- albeit with MILES gear and against hapless ROTC cadets...

[Mahatatain]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

The Bren gun was a little different. Although classified as a machinegun despite it's rather inadequate ammunition supply (magazines on a fully automatic weapon?), one of the greatest complaints I've heard about it was not the mags, nor the weight (it's a bit of a beast for an LMG) but the accuracy - it tends to actually put rounds from a burst in the same place!

According to my father (who I must stress is not a military expert of any kind) to make the Bren gun spray the rounds in a burst and not just put them all through the same hole the designers had to loosen the fixing where the bipod attaches to the gun to make it move around a little, essentially making the Bren gun rock slightly on its bipod.

I have no idea whether this story is true or not however.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Mahatatain

According to my father (who I must stress is not a military expert of any kind) to make the Bren gun spray the rounds in a burst and not just put them all through the same hole the designers had to loosen the fixing where the bipod attaches to the gun to make it move around a little, essentially making the Bren gun rock slightly on its bipod.

I've heard a similar anecdote. I think your dad might've been on the money, or close to it.

[Rockwolf66]

Originally Posted by Targan

I've heard a similar anecdote. I think your dad might've been on the money, or close to it.

I've heard the same from British family members with time in service.

PS: Ohio Ordanace Works has created a select fire triger group for the FN MAG M-240.

[B.T.]

Originally Posted by Rockwolf66

Ohio Ordanace Works has created a select fire triger group for the FN MAG M-240.

Is this device in service with US forces? And do you know, since when it was produced? Could it be encountered in 2000 (I use the ver2.2 timeline)?

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Mahatatain

According to my father (who I must stress is not a military expert of any kind) to make the Bren gun spray the rounds in a burst and not just put them all through the same hole the designers had to loosen the fixing where the bipod attaches to the gun to make it move around a little, essentially making the Bren gun rock slightly on its bipod.

I have no idea whether this story is true or not however.

While the story may be apocryphal, the Bren Gun was exceedingly accurate. The Stoner 63 LMG was also very accurate and needed to have this 'loosened up a little'.
My father was the gunner in an Infantry Section at the start of his Australian Army career and he carried the Bren Gun until it was replaced by the M60. He was quite proud of the fact that he could put all rounds through a door or window with the Bren.

He stated that he and some of the other gunners disliked the M60 because it sprayed the rounds "all over the place". They latter came to accept that the idea of the machinegun was to but as many rounds into an area as possible rather than put them all through the same hole.

[perardua]

The L7A2 GPMG (FN MAG/M240 to heathens from other nations) has sort of a selective rate of fire, in that unless you adjust the gas regulator to the correct position for that particular barrel on that particular gun (known as balancing), your rate of fire will be either too high or too low.

This is quite a good description of how and why we do this: http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Balancing_the_GPMG

Also, the .50 cal HMGs we use (which have a quick change barrel) can still be set to semi-automatic. It has been suggested that this is to be used for ranging shots, but a burst does the job just as well.

[Medic]

Both the Finnish 7.62 KvKK 62 (the now mostly retired light machinegun in 7.62x39) and PKM are, in skilled hands, capable of squeezing off single rounds. The KvKK is the easier one, though it has a very high rate of fire on cyclic. The PKM requires even lighter squeeze for single shots, but it's still feasible.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

He stated that he and some of the other gunners disliked the M60 because it sprayed the rounds "all over the place". They latter came to accept that the idea of the machinegun was to but as many rounds into an area as possible rather than put them all through the same hole.

I never used the 60 in combat, but used correctly, it makes a decent ad hoc sniper rifle, when used with MILES. It's a good way to wake up sleepy or less-then-alert National Guardsmen and ROTC Cadets, since a MILES laser beam doesn't have a drop in it like bullets, you can tap someone at 700 meters with the right optics.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I never used the 60 in combat, but used correctly, it makes a decent ad hoc sniper rifle, when used with MILES. It's a good way to wake up sleepy or less-then-alert National Guardsmen and ROTC Cadets, since a MILES laser beam doesn't have a drop in it like bullets, you can tap someone at 700 meters with the right optics.

Can just about do that with iron sights and a steady hand.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Marc

I'm quite ignorant about machineguns but I suspect that the above statement doesn't work for all of them them. For Paul's site I've seen that, for example, the Browning M-2HB has a dial that allows semiautomatic fire. Is this a common characteristic? Or,most normaly, the such a selector allows only to put the weapon to a "safe" position? I have the same doubt about the automatic rifles listed in the rulebook.

Thanks in advance!

The M-2HB is weird in having that dial for safe or semiautomatic -- most machineguns and and a lot of SAW-type weapons offer only safe or fire. (BTW, correct me if I'm wrong -- the new QCB kit for the M-2HB that the US is fielding also eliminates that selective capability?)

[Marc]

Thanks for your quick answers, guys.

BTW: Any idea to produce a generic "House Rule" to establish when the barrel of an MG would must be changed and about the consecuences not to do it?

[copeab]

There was a recent episode of Lock And Load with R. Lee Ermey where he fired off a bunch of machine guns. A a couple of relevant observations.

1) He fired off 100 continuous rounds from a water-cooled and an air-cooled MG (but US WWII models, .30-cal). The water-cooled barrel went up 10-15 degrees F; the air-cooled barrel went up over 100 F. He showed the proper way to use the air-cooled MG -- tap of a short burst (3-4 rounds), then wait a second, then repeat the cycle. The barrel still got hotter than the water-cooled, but much less than it had under continuous fire.

2) He also fired a Bren and BAR. He considered the BAR more accurate (of it's two automatic settings, one is 2/3 the Bren, so it can be controlled better) but found he still had to change magazines more often (20 rnd for the BAR).

[Targan]

Originally Posted by copeab

He showed the proper way to use the air-cooled MG -- tap of a short burst (304 rounds), then wait a second, then repeat the cycle.

You are truly hard core Copeab. If 304 rounds is your idea of a short burst I'd love to see what you consider to be rock n roll mode!

I kid, I kid. I know you meant to type 3-4 rounds. But it made me laugh.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Marc

Thanks for your quick answers, guys.

BTW: Any idea to produce a generic "House Rule" to establish when the barrel of an MG would must be changed and about the consecuences not to do it?

These things vary with air temperature and actual rate of fire .

For the MG-3 you can shoot until it glows red or white , but jams or involuntary discharge is then a definitive possibility.We are talking a lot of rounds - maybe 500 - 1000 in a short time .

For peace time purposes we always changed barrels after 100 rounds -to train the drill and to lessen wear on the barrel.
maybe a rule could be that if fired continously for more than 6 phases ( shots in every phase ) a jam roll is made to see if teh barrel has overheated and jams ..?)

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Marc

Thanks for your quick answers, guys.

BTW: Any idea to produce a generic "House Rule" to establish when the barrel of an MG would must be changed and about the consecuences not to do it?

The consequences are that you will "shoot out" your barrel -- the barrel is weakened so that it is warped and the rifling screwed up and the weapon can no longer produce accurate fire. The bore will also foul quicker, and the breech can also be damaged leading to an increasing amount of stoppages. If the barrel is warped enough, it can literally burst, possibly injuring and even killing the gunner. If it gets hot enough, you may not have to even hold the trigger down anymore -- it's hot enough that the gun fires until it the belt is gone, then jams tight, and even 3rd-echelon maintenance will throw it away as unsalvageable.

As an aside, I was taught in Basic that when firing an FPL (Final Protective Line -- a continuous stream of fire across the front of your position to prevent being overrun), you will shoot out your barrel, because you don't stop firing until the enemy withdraws, you are ordered to stop or withdraw, or your weapon is mechanically unable to fire any more. In such a circumstance, having to take the time to change a barrel is hazardous to your health.

[Marc]

Understood, thanks. How much time (more or less) to change the barrel?

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Marc

Understood, thanks. How much time (more or less) to change the barrel?

For your average light or medium machinegun, 5 seconds or less. (The testing standard for the M-60 when I was in was 8 seconds -- most guys I know could do it a lot faster - my personal best was just under 4 seconds.) The M-2HB and other really old designs is another matter - you have to set the headspace and timing when you change a barrel or you risk a stoppage, and that takes 20-30 seconds at a minimum.

If the barrel is really hot, changing the barrel on some guns, (like the M-60) takes longer, because the weapon's carrying handle is not on the barrel, but on the receiver or handguard. In a hard fight, it may not matter, but changing the barrel on such a gun could give you serious burns on your hands -- figure 5 seconds more to put on heavy-duty gloves or the silly asbestos gloves that come with the gun's kit. If the handle is on the barrel, no difference.

Good M-60 gunners also know a trick -- you shove the bipod into the dirt, release the barrel, then give it very quick twist and pull the gun sharply back. Usually, the barrel will fall out, and you can knock it aside with the gun and put the new barrel in. That won't work with a very hot gun, and sometimes doesn't work at all. But figure 2 more seconds. It works better if you have an assistant gunner to hold the barrel down -- no additional time.