Announcement from Free League Publishing

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by comped

My personal issue with that isn't waiting a few month, it's the outright admission that there's years to wait before proper sourcebooks after release. Even if I've seen things in their previous products that make me concerned about their ability to make v4 a success, I'd still prefer new material (or the chance to get it, even fan-made) over none. Wait too long and the fan-base that has backed the core book to the tune of 3 million SEK, might not be there to buy them. At least for specifically fans of the publisher over the setting.

That's a valid concern. Hopefully, Tomas was using "years" as an idiom meaning "not right away" and not speaking literally.

My understanding is that the first adventure modules will be set in Poland and Sweden, but designed so that they could be dropped into other locations as well. Perhaps the assumption is that fans will be occupied with Poland and/or Sweden adventures for a while while sourcebooks for other regions are developed?

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Raellus

That's a valid concern. Hopefully, Tomas was using "years" as an idiom meaning "not right away" and not speaking literally.

My understanding is that the first adventure modules will be set in Poland and Sweden, but designed so that they could be dropped into other locations as well. Perhaps the assumption is that fans will be occupied with Poland and/or Sweden adventures for a while while sourcebooks for other regions are developed?

No he made it quite clear - at least a couple of year before sourcebooks on any other areas in the world

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Raellus

That's a valid concern. Hopefully, Tomas was using "years" as an idiom meaning "not right away" and not speaking literally.

My understanding is that the first adventure modules will be set in Poland and Sweden, but designed so that they could be dropped into other locations as well. Perhaps the assumption is that fans will be occupied with Poland and/or Sweden adventures for a while while sourcebooks for other regions are developed?

It's a pity Tomas hasn't registered here and engaged directly with everyone. At the moment what we're getting is second hand.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

It's a pity Tomas hasn't registered here and engaged directly with everyone. At the moment what we're getting is second hand.

I sent him an invitation, via e-mail, a few weeks ago.

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[StainlessSteelCynic]

In general, we older gamers are going to have to deal with the fact that many games being made these days are not pitched at us - we are not the target audience anymore.
I think this is the same for Free League's games, with the rules system they use, we are not the target audience. Sure if they get some of us, they're happy, we're happy but they are aiming the game at people who have a different attitude towards gaming and the harsh reality is that many of those gamers are from the younger age brackets.

As I've said, I want to see the material they produce for this 4th edition but I have no love for the rules system and after looking at it more closely, I don't believe I will ever run it and I'm unlikely to be a player in a game using those rules (for the same reason that I refuse invites for 4th edition D&D - now those are some rules I actually hate)
While I understand what some people are getting at, an appeal for all of us to support the kickstarter regardless of what our personal interests or feelings are, is actually pretty damned insulting. I should support this version of the game even though I don't want to play it, just because somebody else thinks it's a good idea?

This is the same as telling me I should like a particular brand of clothing just because my friends do, or flavour of icecream, or type of beer or choice of vacation spot, just because someone else likes it/wants it/owns it/etc. etc. For me, these are things I regard as my own likes/dislikes, they're personal, they're subjective. So I will support kickstarters that I have my own personal interest in, but I feel no obligation to support one just because someone else wants it. Whether I support this kickstarter is entirely my decision, pleas to support it "just because" are actually making me less interested, I do want some of this new material but I don't need it so I'm happy to wait for a while and get more information before deciding to support (or not) this version of the game.

[Targan]

Fan-made content can be every bit as good as official publications, but unless there's heavy curating it's going to come down to the culture of the community for any given game. Many here will know I'm a Harnmaster guy, and that community is a prime example of the quality of fan-made content being, on average, top-notch. The T2K community has a some of that too, I'd use our own Paul Mulcahey as a paragon example. It feels a bit weird going on the defence of the new edition like this, but I wouldn't assume that the general quality of fan-made content for the new edition will be "amateur hour".

[cawest]

right now i am going to pass on this. i might pick it up at a FLGS. i wish they would put some of the timeline up in the kickstarter. if they did that i might be more inclined to support. not getting a new book for a year or more? that does not help me move over to the support column. i did look up other products from this company to use as a guide line. They don't seem to be in the support long term kind of company.

[swaghauler]

Well, I've reviewed Mutant: Year Zero, and I see it as a "modernized Shadowrun." I'll abstain from the Twilight2000 Kickstarter, but will most likely buy the game when I can get it in print. Like TW2K13, I'll mine it for cool game mechanics and setting info.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

While I understand what some people are getting at, an appeal for all of us to support the kickstarter regardless of what our personal interests or feelings are, is actually pretty damned insulting. I should support this version of the game even though I don't want to play it, just because somebody else thinks it's a good idea?

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to come across as pushy, or generate peer pressure of any kind. Whether or not to support any given Kickstarter is a personal decision.

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[Legbreaker]

Most of you know I have some strong opinions, well thought out and researched long before I say much about them. I'm also open to having my mind changed.
I've seen the draft material (which is almost everything they've already produced) and of course have some VERY strong opinions of it that I really wish I was allowed to share. That knowledge will change minds. All I can publicly state, which I have also said elsewhere, is that some will hate this version and some will love it. Unfortunately I don't see much room for middle ground.

My suggestion? If you have any doubts whatsoever, sit back and wait. If you're keen on supporting based on what's publicly available, then do that. Not much point trying to force your ideas on others is there? Isn't that what's wrong with the world lately?

Will I support the kickstarter? I've thought long and hard about that question too and feel that answering it will probably give away more than I should.

DAMN it's HARD to be restrained about something I'm so passionate about!

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to come across as pushy, or generate peer pressure of any kind. Whether or not to support any given Kickstarter is a personal decision.

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My ire was not directed at you, so my apologies if it felt as though it was.
I share your opinion, whether to back the kickstarter is a personal decision and I never felt as though your interest in the kickstarter was generating any push at me to support it.

The following is not an apology for my post but an explanation to why I made that particular post.
My post was to express my irritation at the way in which one poster was encouraging us to support the kickstarter.
At best the method used was simple peer group pressure, at worst it comes across as very near to emotional blackmail. I tend to have a negative reaction to people who try that trick due to having to deal with people in the past who tried emotional blackmail to get what they wanted.

You can trust that the last person I would expect to advance the cause of anything is someone who styles themselves 'StainlessSteelCynic.' Sorry I didn't provide that disclaimer before, but please know that you are off the hook for now and forevermore.

I'd ask that in the future, you refer to what I'm calling Olefin's rule - "And if people dont like what I post - then they are free to read something else ..."

Now if you will excuse me, I need to update my Ignore List.

[sellanraa]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

My ire was not directed at you, so my apologies if it felt as though it was.
I share your opinion, whether to back the kickstarter is a personal decision and I never felt as though your interest in the kickstarter was generating any push at me to support it.

Echoing Rae, I know my post was to express my enthusiasm that this game is getting any fresh attention. I really have no stake in whether anyone supports or doesn't support the new edition. So if my post was a part of this feeling of being pressured to support, I also apologize.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

My ire was not directed at you, so my apologies if it felt as though it was.
I share your opinion, whether to back the kickstarter is a personal decision and I never felt as though your interest in the kickstarter was generating any push at me to support it.

My post was intended to suggest that people give Free League a chance rather than prejudging something before it's been released. Giving them a chance means just that - don't dismiss something out of hand if you haven't even seen it yet and you only have three pages of the product to go on. There was no suggestion that support should be financial. That's quite obviously a decision for each individual to make for themselves.

[Hybris]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

It's a pity Tomas hasn't registered here and engaged directly with everyone. At the moment what we're getting is second hand.

I have informed Tomas about this Forum, BUT for the moment everyone wants a piece of the Tomas Pie everywhere. So far the best answers from FL comes from the kickstarter.

[Hybris]

Free league has been doing kickstarters for a number of years now and it appears to be doing well for them. They always (it appears so) has things sorted out before the kickstarter launches.So that never over promise on content that are not EASILY added to the game /book.That means no or little delivery delays and its of course helps when the printing is don in the EU instead of china.


https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fria_Ligan

As you can see they rotate somewhat among their product line so i think its quite possible that when the remake of the original game are done ( the vistula campaign etc) and maybe some small swedish things added to spice things up we will see a hiatus when they prepare the next round before a new launch takes place (probably on kickstarter) . In the "downtime" we will see other FL games and supplements so when next round comes around for T2K more and newer backers will arrive and wonder what's all the hubba is all about.I only guessing here but that's the way it been so far and i don't think this will change. Its already a success for this small niche of a game and by the kickstarter comments its clear that i'm not the focus group for this game. But i would gladly take the art the clear nice Twilight 2K feeling and enjoy the reading. I haven't played any of the FL rules for any of their games so im on for all the fluff we will get. Im mean its a rpg after all so i will wing it to my taste.That said, ofcourse i will help them if a can and They want it. Its a FL game and they will try to do their best they can with this IP. I'm quite sure it NEVER can be as good as i want it but that the way it is. There is an huge amount with sources these days about the cold war and beyond. like the most of you (i presume) i have information to create a whole ww3 gaming world on my own but i'm happy that someone else its doing it. That's how i managed to keep playing for the last 10 years or so and if this game doesn't suit me i can continue.But i wish the the best because its good to see so many younger gamers out there starting to appraise military history. To be continued....

[Olefin]

Just got this -
All goals achieved - Now, we do have a few more stretch goals up our sleeve, but we need a little more time to finalize them.

I sent Tomas an email with some suggestions for more stretch goals - this is what I sent - what would others want to see?

US Army, Soviet Army, NATO Army Sourcebooks - use the V2 books and update them to V4 - would be a very quick and inexpensive way to immediately get new material and have them be official - this is a good quick win

A Swedish Army Sourcebook with specific Swedish military equipment - wouldnt have to be a full sourcebook but instead a supplement - Paul Mulcahy has a lot of Swedish equipment already on his site with V2.2. specs - you could use them, update to V4 and get that issued with the base game - www.pmulcahy.com

The first full length adventure module as part of the initial kickstarter effort so that you get that as well

[comped]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Just got this -
All goals achieved - Now, we do have a few more stretch goals up our sleeve, but we need a little more time to finalize them.

I sent Tomas an email with some suggestions for more stretch goals - this is what I sent - what would others want to see?

US Army, Soviet Army, NATO Army Sourcebooks - use the V2 books and update them to V4 - would be a very quick and inexpensive way to immediately get new material and have them be official - this is a good quick win

A Swedish Army Sourcebook with specific Swedish military equipment - wouldnt have to be a full sourcebook but instead a supplement - Paul Mulcahy has a lot of Swedish equipment already on his site with V2.2. specs - you could use them, update to V4 and get that issued with the base game - www.pmulcahy.com

The first full length adventure module as part of the initial kickstarter effort so that you get that as well

Sourcebook goals in general would be great. Either updates or wholly new ones - which, surely, they can contract out to people while working on the main edition... They have the resources and the knowledge base (here and elsewhere) to do so.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by comped

Sourcebook goals in general would be great. Either updates or wholly new ones - which, surely, they can contract out to people while working on the main edition... They have the resources and the knowledge base (here and elsewhere) to do so.

I agree on the sourcebooks - or at the least an order of battle that shows what units are in the area depicted in the game's maps

Also US/Soviet/NATO sourcebooks would help those doing the fan canon releases - i.e. thats the base info we would need to make it as accurate as possible for encounters and scenarios

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Olefin

I sent Tomas an email with some suggestions for more stretch goals - this is what I sent - what would others want to see?

I think I feel a poll coming on...

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[Olefin]

go for it Raellus - definitely need that poll for Tomas