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Old 04-12-2009, 12:05 PM
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Default Magazine Springs

Here's a random thought I just had: How many loaded magazines will the PCs find that will jam their weapons or fail to feed because the magazine spring's been compressed too long?
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Old 04-12-2009, 01:10 PM
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From my reading, the duration of compression doesn't have much or anything to do with it. Repetition of compression/decompression cycles is the culprit in making magazine (and recoil and main) springs fail.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...7/ai_99130369/

However, the basic question of magazine failures is a sound one - and one that I don't think any game system addresses. Ammo, yes. Magazines and similar ancillary items that aren't really consumable, no.

- C.
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Old 04-12-2009, 01:11 PM
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The consensus on ar-15.com (a true gun-nut site if there ever was one) was that leaving springs compressed has NO effect on their reliability. They have documented untold instances of magazines found loaded for decades functioning perfectly. The leaving mags loaded causes malfunctioning is an old wive's tail! What does cause magazine springs to wear out is repeated cycling - loading and unloading. That and cracked feed lips are the major causes of unreliability in old magazines!

(and I typed my reply as Legbreaker was doing his, so we repeat!)
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Old 04-12-2009, 01:15 PM
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It's purely anecdotal, but my longest-running test cases have been in a constant loaded state (excluding time between reloads at the range) since 2002. Still feeding 100%.

- C.
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:48 PM
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I have used magazines <military issue, guard mount> that were from the 1940s. The way my mags worked, I figured I coukld get the round in the chamber off, and maybe two from the magazine it was that bad. I was hopping the shotgun would work

And also lets not forget the spread or deformed feedlips of the magazines which also cause jams and malfunctions, usualy double feeds and stove pipes.
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Old 04-12-2009, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jester
And also lets not forget the spread or deformed feedlips of the magazines which also cause jams and malfunctions, usualy double feeds and stove pipes.
I actually had a triple feed in an M-16 once. It was the malfunction that saved my life, because I was trying the suicide attempt that ended my career.
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Old 04-13-2009, 05:30 PM
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In Afghanstian I changed out my mags once a week, reloaded another five and gave five a rest, I did forgot to do this once but being a REMF I had call to test the spring
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:57 AM
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For real?
How to see this incident; the jam saved you, or was faith over eager to "help" you?

Good thing you are here now!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b
I actually had a triple feed in an M-16 once. It was the malfunction that saved my life, because I was trying the suicide attempt that ended my career.
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Old 04-14-2009, 05:35 AM
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That's got to be a one in a million!

Double feeds are rare in my experience, triple feeds unheard of! Glad you saw it as a sign rather than carrying out the stoppage drill.

Mind you, it was an M16 which in my experience are less than quality equipment...
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:08 AM
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Double feeds aren't that uncommon and tripple feeds weren't either back in the 80s/90s with some weapons and mags. When I coached on the range I saw it at least once a week sometimes more often.
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legbreaker
That's got to be a one in a million!

Double feeds are rare in my experience, triple feeds unheard of! Glad you saw it as a sign rather than carrying out the stoppage drill.

Mind you, it was an M16 which in my experience are less than quality equipment...
Actually, I did shake them all out of the chamber and tried several times to chamber another round. Then I changed magazines, chambered a round, looked down the barrel with my right eye (it was set on burst), and -- my CO tackled me.

A lot of people have asked me how I can still be an atheist after that chain of events, but I am.
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Old 04-14-2009, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jester
Double feeds aren't that uncommon and tripple feeds weren't either back in the 80s/90s with some weapons and mags. When I coached on the range I saw it at least once a week sometimes more often.
Less than quality equipment...



Now that would just never happen on a good L1A1 SLR, but then I am just a tinsy bit biased.

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Old 04-14-2009, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legbreaker
Less than quality equipment...



Now that would just never happen on a good L1A1 SLR, but then I am just a tinsy bit biased.

And I'll bet you never heard the words "Bang, Bang, Jam" either.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legbreaker
Now that would just never happen on a good L1A1 SLR, but then I am just a tinsy bit biased.
You read my mind. I was going to post exactly the same thing but you beat me to it. I never had any SLRs misfire or jam on me, not one.
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:44 PM
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Never happened to me either and only saw it when the gas system was fouled (because of poor cleaning by the user).

The M60 on the other hand had it's issues, right up until we had a decent armourer from another unit look at them. Our battalion armourer had been recycling old worn out parts for years and almost every last gun in the battalion was unservicable!

One private in my plattoon was put on on a charge for a UD - unauthorised discharge. The weapon was so worn out that the safety sear slipped and roughly 50 rounds fired before it could be stopped by breaking the link (belt).

Six months later after he'd served his punishment the problem was found and the weapon repaired by somebody actually compentant...

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Old 04-14-2009, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legbreaker
One private in my plattoon was put on on a charge for a UD - unauthorised discharge. The weapon was so worn out that the safety sear slipped and roughly 50 rounds fired before it could be stopped by breaking the link (belt).

Six months later after he'd served his punishment the problem was found and the weapon repaired by somebody actually compentant...

That sucks. A guy in my ARES unit was discharged for a UD with an SLR. He was a moron though. Of course a UD with an SLR involves a single round. Much less frightening than ripping off 50 rounds!
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Old 04-15-2009, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legbreaker
Less than quality equipment...



Now that would just never happen on a good L1A1 SLR, but then I am just a tinsy bit biased.


When I coached I used to say,

"Its not the dope on the weapon, its the dope ON the weapon."

Remember, alot of the equipment is used and abused, and then turned in and reissued. This of course is with the weapons, but also with cleaning gear, slings and magazines. I would often go through my mags and see what ones were damaged and these would be cleaned and left in a hefty bag in the locker and used for inspection and accountability purposes only unless I had a hookup in the armory to get me good ones. One time I had all of 3 servicible magazines, but they were reliable! Then I took two and made them semi servicible with some bending of the body and lips they worked good enough for blanks and field use.
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chico20854
The consensus on ar-15.com (a true gun-nut site if there ever was one) was that leaving springs compressed has NO effect on their reliability. They have documented untold instances of magazines found loaded for decades functioning perfectly. The leaving mags loaded causes malfunctioning is an old wive's tail! What does cause magazine springs to wear out is repeated cycling - loading and unloading. That and cracked feed lips are the major causes of unreliability in old magazines!

(and I typed my reply as Legbreaker was doing his, so we repeat!)


wether or not keeping spring and thereby mag lips under tension over time causes failure to chamber /malfunction depends totally on type of magazine and weapon it is designed for .Many mags made for other weapons than the ar 15 will have problems .I can mention the Ruger Mini 14 and 30 ,Ruger 10/22etc .weapons made in copious amounts.also for the ar 15 platform there are a good deal of crappy mags out there -like there are for most any magazine fed weapon..some producers make what amounts to paperweight in a 30 round format .

Last edited by headquarters; 04-16-2009 at 05:26 AM.
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:28 PM
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I would also say the treatment of the magazines as well, mags on your chest pouch and you crawling on them or just dropping one them will hurt, but they will also dent the magazines, how many times do they get kicked or dropped?

And the whole hitting them on the side like in the movies isn't good for them either. Or the hitting them to seat them in the weapon like they do in the movies. I always loved that, so when the person who does that tries to remove the magazine it is stuck.
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