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  #271  
Old 09-09-2020, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDAT View Post
Not sure if that is the base line, or a upgraded one but they were just running around Ft. Lewis so not in a combat zone.
I would assume baseline - you wouldn't think the additional packages would be issued and subject to wear and tear (not to mention the increased fuel usage for the vehicles themselves) without good reason.
On the other hand, if they were actually involved in an exercise it's possible, but general day to day usage? Not so much I'd suggest.
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  #272  
Old 09-10-2020, 12:49 AM
Vespers War Vespers War is offline
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For the JLTV development program, the original requirement called for the A-Kit (permanently installed armor) to resist 7.62mm at 30 meters, along with 155mm HE at 100 meters and 6 to 8 kilogram IEDs and mines. The B-Kit requirements upped that to 7.62mm to 14.5mm (I believe varying by location), 155mm at 30 meters, 10 kilogram mines, and RPGs. How that requirement changed over the course of development, I don't know, but it gives a baseline ideal to work from. I believe the RPG cage is separate from the B-Kit, so one can have A-Kit with or without cage and B-Kit with or without cage.

There was some discussion of the JLTV back in April.
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  #273  
Old 09-30-2020, 03:49 AM
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Paul, how do you calculate the prices? There's quite a bit of variation from the books.
I understand the stats (fuel consumption, ranges, etc) are all based on real world information, but the prices?
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  #274  
Old 10-02-2020, 12:21 PM
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Hey Paul,

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...space-revolver

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  #275  
Old 03-23-2021, 10:53 AM
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I think I have that in Russian Special Weapons -- but I may be wrong.
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  #276  
Old 03-23-2021, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legbreaker View Post
Paul, how do you calculate the prices? There's quite a bit of variation from the books.
I understand the stats (fuel consumption, ranges, etc) are all based on real world information, but the prices?
Just about everything is fudged to some extent or another. Including the prices. On the PDF page I have posted a copy of my "fudge sheets."
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  #277  
Old 03-23-2021, 10:57 AM
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09 Mar 21

British Bombers has been added. (Don't worry, the V-Bombers are coming soon!)

Chinese Bombers has been added.

Russian Bombers has been added.

US Bombers has been heavily expanded, almost totally rewritten.

Indian Tracked EV has been corrected, updated, and to a small extent, expanded.

International Tracked EV has been corrected, updated, and greatly expanded. In addition, the Kodiak has been removed from this page and moved to German Tracked EV.

Israeli Tracked EV has been updated and corrected.

In Russian Assault Rifles, under the Kalashnikov AK-47/AKM, the 44 Bore has been added.

In US Assault Rifles G-L, the Geissele Super Duty has been added.

In US Semiauto Sporting Rifles S-Z, the Wilson Combat Tactical Hunter has been added.

In Austrian Battle Rifles, the entire page has been reworked (which consisted of only the Mannlicher M1895) and rewritten.

In Italian Battle Rifles, under Mannlicher-Carcano M-1891, the TS Carbine M-1891 with MOD.28 Grenade Launcher has been added.

In US Lever-Action Rifles A-H, the Big Horn Armory Model 90 has been separated from the Model 89, and expanded.

In Austrian Pistols, under Glock 9mm Pistols, the Roland Special has been added.

In Italian Grenade Launchers, the Mannlicher-Carcano MOD.28 has been added.

In Grenade Launcher Rounds, the 38.5x55 Brixia round (for the MOD.28) has been added.

In Melee Weapons, the Abraham & Moses Goodman Special Operations Knife and Wilson Combat/Fox EDC-X were added.

In Argentine Tracked APCs, Australian Tracked APCs, and Austrian Tracked APCs have had the Combat Equipment entry added to the stats.
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  #278  
Old 03-23-2021, 11:10 AM
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Out of curiosity under the entry for the Canberra in the British bombers section it mentions Twilight 2035. Is this a future supplement that may be in the pipeline. Thanks
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  #279  
Old 03-23-2021, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewan View Post
Out of curiosity under the entry for the Canberra in the British bombers section it mentions Twilight 2035. Is this a future supplement that may be in the pipeline. Thanks
Some GMs have told me that they start WWIII as far out as 2035, So I put it in. But you may be right; it causes confusion.
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  #280  
Old 03-23-2021, 10:57 PM
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As an aside, the history of the Canberra aircraft includes some remarkable feats. The following video goes into some detail about a 1950s penetration of Soviet airspace to photograph the Kasputin Yar test site (described by some as the Soviet version of Area 51)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM3AEkM-4JY
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  #281  
Old 03-24-2021, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic View Post
As an aside, the history of the Canberra aircraft includes some remarkable feats. The following video goes into some detail about a 1950s penetration of Soviet airspace to photograph the Kasputin Yar test site (described by some as the Soviet version of Area 51)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM3AEkM-4JY
I'm working on the Canberra now. HUGE update.
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  #282  
Old 04-10-2021, 10:34 PM
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I added a post about the prototype Robotic Combat Vehicles currently undergoing testing with the US Army.
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  #283  
Old 04-10-2021, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b View Post
I think I have that in Russian Special Weapons -- but I may be wrong.
I didn't find it (although I'm notoriously bad at locating things within your pages), but I did a write-up of it in the Best That Never Was thread.
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  #284  
Old 08-30-2021, 07:21 PM
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02 Sep 21

http://www.pmulcahy.com/misc_pages/updates_2021.html

In Swiss Assault Rifles, the SIG-Sauer MCX has been added.

In US Pistols M-Q, the MasterPiece Arms DS9 Hybrid has been added.

In US Bolt-Action Rifles - Savage, the Impulse has been added.

In US Semiauto Sporting Rifles A-E, the Big Horn Armory AR500 has been added.

The Avro Vulcan has been added to British Bombers.

In Jordanian Tracked Engineer Vehicles, the newer version of the Monjed, the AB1 P1, has been added to the entry, and the AB1 itself has been updated and corrected.

In Mexican Tracked EV, the M32 Chenca has had some corrections and has had some small bits of details added.

The HIT Al-Hadeed has primarily had some corrections and and some small details added in Pakistani Tracked EV.

In Polish Tracked EV, all the entries have been greatly modified and corrected, as well as more information added. (Note that also thar the M84ABI will probably be moved to another page, while the WZT-3M2 will probably in the future be given its own entry on the page.)
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  #285  
Old 01-13-2022, 05:05 PM
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Sorry I'm late in notification, but...

29 Dec 21

I was going to put more into this update, but this month has been busy, and I wanted to get one more update out before the New Year. Cheers!

In Belgian Pistols, the FN 509 has been added.

In Heavy-Caliber Rifle Rounds, the .470 Capstick and .577 Tyrannosaur were added.

In Melee Weapons, the Yarara Yaara has been added. (It's a little out of alphabetical order; I will fix that in an early next year update.)

In Riflescopes and Other Weapon Scopes, the Leupold VX Freedom has been added.

In Slovakian Tracked Engineer Vehicles, everything has had a great deal information added, including in some cases the equipment carried, and in one case a change to the proper designation.

In South African Tracked Engineer Vehicles, there have primarily been corrections made.

In South Korean Tracked Engineer Vehicles, a large amount of corrections have been made and a lot of new information added.

In Best SP Antiaircraft That Never Were, M48-Based Experimental and Drawing-Board AAA Vehicles has been added.

I have been notified by a fan of my site, Neal Sofge, that a number of links on my site are broken (other than the ones I broke deliberately -- these are noted on the Home Page). I will will be working on this for...however long it takes. (It's probably is something I should consider site maintenance -- shame on me.) Expressions Web has a tool, my web host has a tool, and Neal has given me the web address of the tool he uses.



09 Nov 21

In Russian Tracked Engineer Vehicles, corrections have been made, and most vehicles have had more information added. In addition, under the Omsk MTU-20, the MTU-12 has been added.

In Serbian TEV, corrections have been made and additional information has been added, particularly to the Munja's engineer reconnaissance role.

Singaporean TEV has had some minor corrections made.

In British Bombers, the Handley Page Victor has been added.

In Chinese Assault Rifles, the Chiyou Group ZH-05 has been added.

In US Assault Rifles M-Q, the Maxim Defense MDX Series has been added.

In Austrian BA Sporting Rifles A-Su, the Fuchs-Szecsei Double Barrel Bolt-Action Rifles have been added.

In Russian GL, the GP-30 and GP-25 have been corrected, and in particular the weight of the GP-30 has been corrected and more information added.

A new page, Ukrainian GL, has been added, with the KNR UAG-40.

In Small Caliber Rifle Rounds, the .22 Nosler round has been added.

In Heavy Caliber Rifle Rounds, the .500 Auto Max has been added.

In Rimfire Rounds, the .17 Mach 2 Rimfire has been added.
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  #286  
Old 02-16-2022, 09:38 AM
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15 Feb 22



In British Bombers, the Vickers Valiant was added.

Spanish Tracked Engineer Vehicles has seen a dramatic change, from corrected stats to corrected and added technical figures to added material. In addition, the VZCAP Castor and the M60 VLPD 26/70 E have been added.

Swedish Tracked Engineer Vehicles has largely seen corrections and additional info; the exception is the Bgbv-90, which has seen some expansion with new variants of the vehicle.

Swiss Tracked Engineer Vehicles has seen the usual assortment of corrections and additional research and info; however, the primary update to the page is that the vehicles are now divided into the separate MLUs each vehicle had undergone.

In Animals, Feral Pigs have been added. (This one was a suggestion by Olefin from Juhlin's T2K board.)

In Optics (a new page), the SiG Sauer KILO2200 MR and M65 Periscope have been added. (The Optics page will be a more precise counterpart to the Vision Devices page.)

In German Mines, the SM-70 has been added.

In US Antimateriel Rifles M-Z, the Ultimate Arms Warmonger LR25-Magna has been added.

US Assault Rifles R-Z has been broken up into several pages, including US Assault Rifles R, US Assault Rifles S, US Assault Rifles T-V, and US Assault Rifles W-Z. In US Assault Rifles T-V, the Ultimate Arms M4-AR Black Widow has been added.

In US Pistols T-Z, the Uselton Arms 1911 has been added.

In US Bolt-Action Rifles T-V, the Uselton Arms Mountain Lite has been added.

In US AAMs, the AIM-120D-5 has been added.

In US Autocannons, the 20mm Vulcan entry has been greatly expanded.
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  #287  
Old 04-03-2022, 01:19 PM
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Paul, I skimmed your site and maybe I missed it, but have you statted this BMP1A1 "Ost" version of the BMP-1?

I posted an image of a Unified Germany BMP-1 (I can't figure out to post it here) on the FB group and a member responded,

"The BMP-1A1 Ost is even more of an abomination than the standard BMP. The Bundeswehr modified them to be road regulation compliant, took the ATGM off, limited the speed to 50/40 kph (roadd/offroad), ruled the speed in training down to 20 kph to minimize wear and tear, deleted the gas tanks in the back doors and put steps on the side to climb the beast easily and without chances of self-inflicted injuries."

Apparently, unified Germany sold most of its DDR BMP-1s to Sweden, which refurbished them before selling them on to the Czech Republic. In a v1 timeline, they probably stay put in Germany.

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https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
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  #288  
Old 10-04-2022, 09:31 PM
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Didn't realize how long it had been since I posted in this thread!

http://www.pmulcahy.com/misc_pages/updates_2022.html


03 Oct 22

In US Antimateriel Rifles M-Z, the SSK .950 JDJ Gun has been added.

In US Machineguns, under the Browning M2HB entry, the FN Browning M1939 has been added.

In Austrian Pistols, the Glock 44 has been added (the entry is actually called Glock .22 Long Rifle Pistols).

In US Bolt-Action Sporting Rifles - Savage, the Savage Mk II has been expanded.

In US Single/Double-Barreled Rifles R-Z, the Savage 42 has been added.

In US Semiautomatic Shotguns A-L, the Kalashnikov USA Komrad has been added.

In International Single/Double-Barreled Shotguns, the Chiappa Triple Threat has been added.

A new page, Best ASM That Never Were, was added, with the AGM-289 Coral Snake.

A new page, US Trainers, has been added, with the T-33 Shooting Star.

Indian Wheeled Engineer Vehicles, Japanese Wheeled Engineer Vehicles, and Polish Wheeled Engineer Vehicles have been corrected and clarified.

Numerous corrections and clarifications have been made to Best Aircraft That Never Were.





18 Aug 22

In Czech Pistols, the CZ P-10 has been added.

In German Pistols - Heckler & Koch, the HK45 has been added.

In US Pistols C, the Colt Junior has been added.

In German Revolvers K-Z, the Korth NXR has been added.

In US Bolt-Action Sporting Rifles - Savage 10/110, the Model 110 Scout has been added.

In US SAMs, the FIM-92 Stinger has been expanded and slightly corrected.

Chinese Wheeled Engineer Vehicles has been corrected and the GDG130 HSEV has been added.

French Wheeled Engineer Vehicles and German Wheeled Engineer Vehicles have been updated and corrected.

In Iraqi Tanks, the T-55 Enigma has been added.

In Russian Tanks, the T-54/55 has been corrected and the entry expanded with additional versions.

US Fighters has received numerous updates and corrections, and the Lockheed P-80/F-80 has been added.



17 Jul 22

In Small-Caliber Rifle Rounds the 6.8mm Fury has been added.

In US Assault Rifles S the SIG USA XM5 has been added.

In US Pistols St-Sz Staccato Pistols have been added.

In Russian ATGMs, the AT-11 has been expanded with new versions.

In Melee Weapons the CKRT KUK/Clever Girl have been added.

In Russian Tanks, the T-90 and T-72 have been expanded and corrected, and other corrections have been applied. This is in response to suggestions from posters on the Twilight 2000 forum.

British Wheeled Engineer Vehicles and Canadian Wheeled Engineer Vehicles have been corrected and updated.


09 May 22

Stats have been corrected in Turkish Tracked Engineer Vehicles, and the ACV-300 ARV with RWS, the Kunduz AZMIM, M48A5E5 Tamay, and M48A5E5 AVLB were added.

In Ukranian Tracked Engineer Vehicles, other versions of the BREM-84 Atlet have been included, including the Thai version.

In US Tracked Engineer Vehicles, general corrections have made. The version of the Assault Breacher Vehicle with the RWS has been added. The Bradley E-BFV has been added. The M9A1, A2, and A3 version of the M9 ACE have been added. The M58A1 and A2 versions of the M58 Wolf Smoke-Layer have been added. The M88A3 has been added to the M88 entry. The M728A1 and A2 have been added to the M728 CEV entry. The M1059A1 and A2 have been added to the M1059 entry. The M1074 JABS has been added.

In International Tracked APCs, the ASCOD entry has been more fleshed out (though it needs more work). More work has been done on the Pizarro and Ulan, and the possible Czech version has been added.

In Best Tanks That Never Were, the M60-2000 has been removed; it is already, in its later form, the 120S, in US tanks (M60 section). Other corrections were also made to this page.

In Brazilian Revolvers - Taurus. the Taurus Model 380 UL has been added.

I have broken up the Swiss Pistols into Swiss Pistols - SIG and Swiss Pistols. In Swiss Pistols - SIG, the Legion series has been added.

In US SA Sporting Rifles - Rp-Rz, the Ruger PC-4/9 has been expanded.

In Weapon House Rules, rules for use of arm braces with pistols made from assault rifles. use of such arm braces as stocks, and the attachment of stocks to such assault rifle/pistols to make them into short-barrelled rifles, have been added.
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  #289  
Old 10-04-2022, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raellus View Post
Paul, I skimmed your site and maybe I missed it, but have you statted this BMP1A1 "Ost" version of the BMP-1?
-
Too long since I looked at this thread! I'll get back to you.
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  #290  
Old 03-22-2023, 02:06 PM
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http://www.pmulcahy.com/misc_pages/updates_2023.html

07 Jan 23

In Melee Weapons, the Angel Fire Knives Mini Guard Dog, Cold Steel Ti-Lite Kris Blade, CSSD/SC Sister Christian, Delta2Alpha Savannah Slim, Kizer Lan G-10, Spyderco Shabaria, and TOPS Tanimboca Pukka have been added.

In US Rocket Launchers, the FGR17 Viper has been added.

In Russian SAMs, the SA-8, SA-9, and SA-19 have been updated and added to.

A new page, Iranian Fighters, has been added, with the HESA Kowsar.

Romanian Wheeled Engineer Vehicles, Russian Wheeled Engineer Vehicles, Slovakian Wheeled Engineer Vehicles, South African Wheeled Engineer Vehicles, Spanish Wheeled Engineer Vehicles, and Turkish Wheeled Engineer Vehicles have been updated and corrected.

Romanian Wheeled SPAA, Russian Wheeled SPAA, South African Wheeled SPAA, Turkish Wheeled SPAA, US Wheeled SPAA, and Yugoslavian Wheeled SPAA have been updated, corrected, and in some cases, new variants have been added. (See especially the US entry for the Avenger.)



05 Mar 23



Acuras, Alfa Romeos, Aston Martins, and Audis have been updated and corrected.

US Wheeled Engineer Vehicles have been updated and corrected.

Belgian ATGM Vehicles, British ATGM Vehicles, Canadian ATGM Vehicles, and Chinese ATGM Vehicles have been updated and corrected.

The Stryker-Launched Assault Bridge has been added to Best Engineer Vehicles that Never Were.

In Melee Weapons, the Arkansas Toothpick has been added.

Finnish Battle Rifles has been updated with the M/28, M/91-35 and M/56.

In Russian Battle Rifles, the Estonian M1935, the Bulgarian M1891/59, the Remington M1891 in .30-06 Springfield, the Vostok competition rifle, and the Mosin Obrez have been added to the Mosin-Nagant M1891 Series entry.

In US Battle Rifles M-Z, the Type 5 "Japanese Garand" has been added to the Springfield M1 Garand entry.

In German Machineguns, the MG/42 was added to the Rheinmetall MG42 entry.

In Austrian Pistols, the M1912 Machine Pistol has been added to the Steyr M1912 entry.

In Italian Pistols C-S, the Lercker has been added.

In Mexican Pistols, the Trejo entry has been replaced with an updated one.

In Russian Pistols, a note about magazine loading has been added to the TSKIB-14 APS Stechkin has been added.

In South African Pistols, the Viper Manufacturing Mamba has been added.

In US Submachineguns A-I, the 9mm M1 has been added to the Auto-Ordnance Thompson entry.

Fixed a slew of hyperlink errors on the PDF Page. These errors were found due to the diligence of Terry Reynolds. The spreadsheet download errors were fixed by putting the sheets into ZIP files. The rest were poor formatting and error checking by yours truly.
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  #291  
Old 03-22-2023, 09:47 PM
Vespers War Vespers War is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b View Post
In US Rocket Launchers, the FGR17 Viper has been added.
Its stat table calls it an M27A1 instead of FGR-17 in the purple Weapon field. The only stat I have a minor quibble with is that range of 256 when it's said to be no more accurate than a LAW that has a range of 55-70 at the time the Viper was developed. Looking at a couple of the other rocket launcher pages, that's a very long direct-fire range for a rocket.
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  #292  
Old 03-23-2023, 06:03 PM
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pmulcahy11b pmulcahy11b is offline
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Originally Posted by Vespers War View Post
Its stat table calls it an M27A1 instead of FGR-17 in the purple Weapon field. The only stat I have a minor quibble with is that range of 256 when it's said to be no more accurate than a LAW that has a range of 55-70 at the time the Viper was developed. Looking at a couple of the other rocket launcher pages, that's a very long direct-fire range for a rocket.
The M27A1 is a mistake, from copying and pasting tables. The Range should be 56 -- fumbly typing fingers coupled to inadequate proofreading. I'll have to remember to fix those.
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  #293  
Old 03-24-2023, 09:41 AM
Ursus Maior Ursus Maior is offline
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Enjoying your site, as always and happy to see it continues growing.

However, I noticed something about the Leopard 1 in your PDF I just opened.

The entry for the Leopard 1A4 states:

"The Leopard 1A4 was the last version of the Leopard 1 used by the German Army (the German Army switched completely to the Leopard 2 series soon thereafter), but many other countries used and are still using the 1A4."

Under the A5 it is written:

"In 1980, though no longer being used by Germany, Krauss-Maffei felt the Leopard 1 design still had some life in it, and began a large set of modifications that would lead to the Leopard 1A5."

Both of these statements are contrary to what I read and experienced myself. First of all, the A4 was not the last variant used by Germany. In fact, Germany used hundreds of 1A5 from 1987 onward, with 737 of them remaining in service after the (historical) army reforms of 1994. The last battalions of Leopard 1A5 were deactivated or transferred to the Leopard 2 in 2003 (likely most just deactivated).

The Bundeswehr concentrated all Leopard 1A5 in the brigades of I (GE/NL) and IV (GE) Corps, while II (GE/US) corps was exclusively equipped with Leopard 2A4 in 1994. So, when I travelled to the "new federal states" for my training as a gunner on the Marder 1A3, I could see Leopard 1A5s of our sister brigade serving in what some years ago had been communist barracks of the NVA.

Additionally, the Leopard 1A4 never served, to my knowledge, in foreign armies. The A4 was the last lot delivered to the Bundeswehr, exclusively, and included better optics than its direct predecessor the A3. All 250 A4s were taken out of service in 1989 - so 2 years after the A5 entered service - and most of them were sold. But those 235 A4 sold were downgraded to the A3 model before that. The remainder were used for target practice, went into museums or were destroyed as part of CFE compliance.

One addition to the Leopard 1A5 and the A6 program: Historically, two A6 were built as research projects. Both received the 120 mm gun, a modification that was made possible for all A5 models as part of the general A5 upgrade plan. So during the Twilight War, we might see regular A5 models with a gun upgrade, likely named Leopard 1A5A2, since the Leopard 1A5A1 was a distinct subvariant of the A5 equipped with the new SEM 80/90 radios that had already been installed into the Leopard 1A1A4 and 1A1A3 (which differs from the 1A1A4 in not having the passive thermal imaging device "PZB200").

Both Leopard 1A6 prototypes also received a fire extinguishing system for the crew area, but differed otherwise. The first, VT-2, had improved turret roof armor installed, infrared signature reduction of the undercarriage and likely its chassis and improved frontal hull armor. The second prototype, VT-5, received none of these upgrades, but instead received an improved commander's sight. This was meant to improve hunter-killer capabilities of the A6 model, which was likely to be used to support infantry units in defensive operations: essentially the Leopard 1A6 would have been the successor to the Jagdpanzer Kanone, the tank destroyer armed with a 90 mm that was still in service back in 1987, when the A6 research project was going on.

Okay, that went to become a longer post than intended. But I did research on the Leopard 1 recently and it's such an interesting piece of tech.
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Old 03-24-2023, 03:56 PM
Vespers War Vespers War is offline
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Additionally, the Leopard 1A4 never served, to my knowledge, in foreign armies. The A4 was the last lot delivered to the Bundeswehr, exclusively, and included better optics than its direct predecessor the A3. All 250 A4s were taken out of service in 1989 - so 2 years after the A5 entered service - and most of them were sold. But those 235 A4 sold were downgraded to the A3 model before that. The remainder were used for target practice, went into museums or were destroyed as part of CFE compliance.
While the 1A4 wasn't exported, the Greek 1A3 GR was arguably closer to a German 1A4 than a German 1A3. The 1A3 GR had the same computerized FCS as the 1A4, with an EMES 12A3 sighting system instead of the 1A4's 12A1. The only thing the 1A4 might have had that the 1A3 GR didn't was an independent night sight for the commander (I'm not sure whether the 1A3 GR had one or not).

Reading the Leopard 1 description on Paul's site a little more deeply, the Dutch Leopard 1V isn't a Leopard 1A3 with an EMES 12A3. It's a Leopard 1A1A4 with an EMES 12A3, so less armored than the presented stats. In addition to 170 Leopard 1V transferred to Greece, they also sent 2 prototype upgraded Leopard 1V with the EMES 18 system from the Leopard 1A5. I don't believe it was in exchange for anything, it was part of complying with the CFE's requirement that the Netherlands cut their MBT forces from 913 tanks to 743 and the tanks to either be destroyed or given to another NATO member.
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  #295  
Old 03-26-2023, 02:53 PM
Ursus Maior Ursus Maior is offline
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Thanks for the info on the 1A3 GR, didn't know that. The Danish 1A3 seems to be slightly different, too.

Yeah, Leopard 1 variants is its own science. The German baseline variants are still fairly easy, thought the subvariants have their own charme already. But the mixmatching of various variants by other customers, who often then added their own tech, really makes this completely bonkers.

The Dutch are, in particular, a prime example for this. They always had great electronics, which they liked to add to German bought hardware. The Belgians were similar, but bought less advanced and/or in smaller quantity.

After 1990 and with alle the CFE compliance sales, some countries acquired interesting mixes of weapon systems. The Greeks used different Leopard 1s, M48s, BMP-1s, their own IFV development plus later Leopard 2s and other stuff all in parallel. Logistical nightmare anyone? On the other hand, Ukraine seems to manage the plethora of models they were delivered, too. So, why not?
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Old 03-26-2023, 08:52 PM
Vespers War Vespers War is offline
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Thanks for the info on the 1A3 GR, didn't know that. The Danish 1A3 seems to be slightly different, too.

Yeah, Leopard 1 variants is its own science. The German baseline variants are still fairly easy, thought the subvariants have their own charme already. But the mixmatching of various variants by other customers, who often then added their own tech, really makes this completely bonkers.

The Dutch are, in particular, a prime example for this. They always had great electronics, which they liked to add to German bought hardware. The Belgians were similar, but bought less advanced and/or in smaller quantity.

After 1990 and with alle the CFE compliance sales, some countries acquired interesting mixes of weapon systems. The Greeks used different Leopard 1s, M48s, BMP-1s, their own IFV development plus later Leopard 2s and other stuff all in parallel. Logistical nightmare anyone? On the other hand, Ukraine seems to manage the plethora of models they were delivered, too. So, why not?
The Danish 1A3 was originally a fairly mild modification. It had a periscope wiper, was fitted for (but not equipped with when delivered) the electronic fire control system, and got rid of the close defense weapon blanking plate on top of the turret. Between original orders and CFE transfers they received a total of 120 1A3 DK, 100 1A3 from Germany, and 10 1A4 from Germany.

All of those (AFAIK) were upgraded to 1A5 DK standard by installing the electronic FCS, a laser rangefinder, and the EMES 18 sight from the 1A5, so they were a 1A3 (or rarely 1A4) hull and turret with basically 1A5 electronics, plus a thermal sleeve for the gun barrel and some tweaks to the periscopes so they could see over newly installed equipment. The 35 1A5 DK used for UNPROFOR/SFOR operations also got air conditioning, a GPS receiver, the searchlights from their old M41 tanks, a generator, and a fire-suppression system and were designated DK-1.

For current peacetime logistical nightmares just in armored units (i.e. excluding the current Ukraine/Russia duo since those are wartime exigencies), I'd put Egypt at least somewhere near the top. In active service they have Ramses (upgraded T-55), a couple different types of upgraded T-62 (with different main gun calibers), M60, and M1 Abrams, with an order to begin license-building T-90MS. Meanwhile Turkey has M48, 2 models of M60, 2 models of Leopard 1, 2 models of Leopard 2, and is introducing Altay. I think they're slightly less bad off than Egypt because they're entirely NATO-caliber units, while Egypt is using 105mm (Ramses, some T-62, M60), 115mm (some T-62), and 120mm (some T-62, M1) and will be introducing 125mm (T-90). At least they don't have any 100mm T-55 still in service, I guess?
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Old 03-27-2023, 12:49 PM
Ursus Maior Ursus Maior is offline
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I raise you one regarding Egypt: While they have gotten rid of the venerable 100 mm cannon of the T-54/T-55 series, they still got T-55s running. They started their Ramses II program in 1984, with first deliveries running of the production lines in 2004/5. But the Ramses II is a T-54 upgrade. Their T-55s were upgraded already during the 1990s under a different program leading to the T-55E MK I and II. The "E" stands for Egypt. While the MK I retained the original 100 mm gun, it's been out of service for some time now. The MK II fields the same M68 (aka "L7") the Ramses II fields and retains the other upgrades, i. e. a German 800 hp engine and some electronics. There is also an Italian FCS and stabilization the MK I seems never to have gotten.

So, they actually got their T-54 upgrades and their T-55 upgrades still in service. But hey, it's almost the same tank, right?
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Old 03-27-2023, 12:52 PM
Ursus Maior Ursus Maior is offline
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By the way, IISS "Military Balance" of 2022 lists these exact tanks for Egypt:

"MBT 2,480: 1,130 M1A1 Abrams; 300 M60A1; 850 M60A3; 200 T-62 (840 T-54/T-55; 300 T-62 all in store)".

Who knows, if they upgraded all 840 T-54 and T-55 they got?
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Old 03-31-2023, 10:01 PM
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According to Wikipedia....425 of the t54/55 have been upgraded, with plans for another 140-160 planned.
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Old 04-07-2023, 03:58 AM
Ursus Maior Ursus Maior is offline
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Ah, nice. They might come in handy on the donations market, if the Ukraine-Russia war lasts a bit longer.
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