Where else do you hang out at?

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Used to enjoy SFB until Task Force started to get more than a little stupid with all of the new races, got to the point where you couldn't keep buying the modules!

Starfire is still a kickass game!!!! Don't know about the latest edition!

I agree whole heartedly. I gave up on SFB after module 7. I think they are up to 10 or 11 now.

Starfire, however, got nuts. Task Force sold the rights to an independant developer, David Weber had a falling out with the new designers, and the game has exploded from a 20-30 page marvel of brevity to a 50 page mess (IMHO). So many rules that were NOT needed (Again, IMHO). Starfire used to be a game you could set up and play a scenario in 10-20 minutes. Now it seems to take forever.

Mike

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

Starfire, however, got nuts. Task Force sold the rights to an independant developer, David Weber had a falling out with the new designers, and the game has exploded from a 20-30 page marvel of brevity to a 50 page mess (IMHO). So many rules that were NOT needed (Again, IMHO). Starfire used to be a game you could set up and play a scenario in 10-20 minutes. Now it seems to take forever.

I playtested one of the editions where it went from moderately bug to Huge. It nearly killed my poor printer when I downloaded the rules. That was about 1996, and I haven't touched it since.

OTOH, I'm still a Star Fleet Battles addict. The pace of supplements seems manageable to me.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

I agree whole heartedly. I gave up on SFB after module 7. I think they are up to 10 or 11 now.

Starfire, however, got nuts. Task Force sold the rights to an independant developer, David Weber had a falling out with the new designers, and the game has exploded from a 20-30 page marvel of brevity to a 50 page mess (IMHO). So many rules that were NOT needed (Again, IMHO). Starfire used to be a game you could set up and play a scenario in 10-20 minutes. Now it seems to take forever.

Mike

Loved to play the Klingons, but it was just the sheer mass that came down, here's a new race and by the way, the have a listing for everyting from battleships to shuttles and here are another 5 pages of rules and 25 pages of rewritten rules and on and on and on. SFB grew from a great little game into this mess.

Would love to get the 4th Interstellar War rules for Starfire, but looking over the mess, just don't know any more. Death of another great game system because somebody new has to "improve" it I guess.

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Loved to play the Klingons, but it was just the sheer mass that came down, here's a new race and by the way, the have a listing for everyting from battleships to shuttles and here are another 5 pages of rules and 25 pages of rewritten rules and on and on and on. SFB grew from a great little game into this mess.

Would love to get the 4th Interstellar War rules for Starfire, but looking over the mess, just don't know any more. Death of another great game system because somebody new has to "improve" it I guess.

I usually played Romulans. I agree with the HUGE influx of races. THen they added races in the Meglenanic Galaxy/ Then there were races found half way around the Milky Way galaxy. Then there are races that don't "exist" as the Feds and Klingons "exist". Etc. Etc. Sigh.

I, too, would like to get a copy of the ISW4 rules for Starfire.

Mike

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

I usually played Romulans. I agree with the HUGE influx of races. THen they added races in the Meglenanic Galaxy/ Then there were races found half way around the Milky Way galaxy. Then there are races that don't "exist" as the Feds and Klingons "exist". Etc. Etc. Sigh.

I, too, would like to get a copy of the ISW4 rules for Starfire.

Mike

SFB started out with everybody using phasers...ok, cannon with the tv series

And each race then got a special weapon;

Federation got photon torpedoes; Klingons got disruptors; Romulans got plasma torpedoes; Kzintis got drones and so forth...ok

But then the modules started to release Federation destroyers with plasma torpedoes and Romulans with drones...and by the time module 4-5 came out, SFB had lost its focus and became one of the worst examples of "rules wars" I can think of.

ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

SFB started out with everybody using phasers...ok, cannon with the tv series

And each race then got a special weapon;

Federation got photon torpedoes; Klingons got disruptors; Romulans got plasma torpedoes; Kzintis got drones and so forth...ok

But then the modules started to release Federation destroyers with plasma torpedoes and Romulans with drones...and by the time module 4-5 came out, SFB had lost its focus and became one of the worst examples of "rules wars" I can think of.

ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!

SFB did one thing right. They FINALLY removed the Romulans and Gorn with drones. Left them the plasma torpedo. (That is canon for the Romulans at least.)

At last count (and I will admit I do not have all of the modules) THere were over 1000 !!!! pages of rules, ship lay out forms, and etc.... This isn't rules war...this is rules EXPLOSION!!

Mike

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

At last count (and I will admit I do not have all of the modules) THere were over 1000 !!!! pages of rules, ship lay out forms, and etc.... This isn't rules war...this is rules EXPLOSION!!

Yes, but... you don't have to use all of the rules at once, just like you don't have to use or buy all of the ships. I and my group ignore big chunks of the stuff produced, and we still have fun with it. Heck, two of those guys would be happy with the 20-odd tournament cruisers and no more. Yes, they keep cranking out ships to buy-- they gotta eat, you know!

ADB has stopped adding rules & weapons to the 'base' game, and the core rules are frozen-- they have not been revised in almost 20 years. Nearly all recent additions are to variants or alternate locations, like the Omega or Magellanic Sectors, which do not interface with the 'canon' part of the galaxy.

BTW, I will suggest the Federation Commander game, also from ADB, which is a simplified and stripped-down Star Fleet Battles. A lot of what people call rules bloat is gone.