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Old 12-02-2020, 08:13 AM
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chico20854 chico20854 is offline
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Default New America after the TDM

One thing that I've been wondering about lately I'd like to hear opinions on:

How does New America keep its cells hidden between the nuclear strikes and the initiation of the Eagle papers, a period of several years?

From the description of rural areas in Howling Wilderness and Allegheny Uprising (among others), it seems that a horde of displaced urban/suburban residents sweeps across the countryside, seeking food, heat and shelter. Moving on foot after the gas in their cars run out, I would think that they would have time (and motivation) to see what is at the end of every driveway. And if a group of a couple families went up a dirt road and were turned away by a strange armed force (a NA cell's security force) that eventually word would reach back to the authorities. And those must be some truly amazing stockpiles of food, fuel and weapons that NA is able to keep those cells going for three years and still have reserves available to perform their tasks assigned under the Eagle Papers. (A side issue is where in the heck they found 106mm recoilless rifles and ammo, let alone in quantities sufficient to export them to Grenada, per Spanish Main).

And that timing also makes the description of the NA forces in Tampa in Urban Guerrilla also seem odd... the esprit de corps and institutional reputation of the various regiments (especially the regiment of thirds) aren't the sort of thing that develop in a few weeks or months.

What are your thoughts? How does NA pull it off without the remnants of the authorities noticing?
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Old 12-02-2020, 09:25 AM
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Mix of taking advantage of the chaos and suborning the surviving authorities. If the NA cell leader is smart, he's already "shaped the battlefield" by ingratiating himself with the powers that be in the locality. All sorts of ways that can go down, from bringing in the "new town industry or big box store" to just buying the town up outright. All of these ways can explain away a lot of bodies after TDM ("Oh, they were rioters. Nothing to see here.") Especially if you keep the majority of your firepower and capabilities close to the vest.

As for the Tampa/St. Pete Cell? Well, I got the impression these were former State Guard units that were reorganized after the New Americans took over. Or at least the 1st was. The rest read like they had been recently formed and were rather little more than armed mobs.
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Old 12-02-2020, 09:55 AM
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You can buy practice rounds for the 106mm recoilless rifle on line today - now the internet in 1997 is not what it is today but it did exist and thus they would have been able to buy the practice rounds which is what they gave the pirates on Grenada. Actual working weapons are harder but if you have the right people you can take a demilitarized weapon and make it able to fire again.

Same with inert rounds - i.e. you need the right skill set which I bet they found and the right materials - but if you know what you are doing they can be used.

And they may have had contacts with the local National Guard to be able to get working 106mm weapons and ammo for them.

FYI one thing people forget is how many weapons are in circulation in this country that you dont find anywhere else - like the fact that there are over 180,000 fully functional machine guns of various makes that are registered in the US.

Also an interesting table that shows weapons unaccounted for by the Marines in the last few years - you could see that happening a lot to account for where NA got its weapons.

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/filea...apter-8-EN.pdf
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Old 12-02-2020, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olefin View Post
FYI one thing people forget is how many weapons are in circulation in this country that you dont find anywhere else - like the fact that there are over 180,000 fully functional machine guns of various makes that are registered in the US.
And there are way more than 180,000 machineguns in civilian hands. I read a news article in the early 80s where ATF conservatively estimated there were over 500,000. I've seen several unregistered guns over the last 25 years.
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Old 12-02-2020, 12:53 PM
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And there are way more than 180,000 machineguns in civilian hands. I read a news article in the early 80s where ATF conservatively estimated there were over 500,000. I've seen several unregistered guns over the last 25 years.
Keep in mind too that in reality they banned importation of guns like the Chinese AK version that could be turned into an automatic rifle easily and other weapons in 1994 - if that didnt happen in V1 you could have a hell of a lot more of those guns in the US

And I could see NA raiding museums and tank collections and other places to get weapons and vehicles - i.e. like the tank that was pulled out of a Ukrainian museum a few years ago by rebels

As to how they werent detected - with communications breaking down, people looking out for themselves, and with the remoteness of the areas they were in (with the very big exceptions of the HQ and the Florida branch) it might not have been as hard as you think

Last edited by Olefin; 12-02-2020 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 12-02-2020, 01:18 PM
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Default Same Old New America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Weiser View Post
Mix of taking advantage of the chaos and suborning the surviving authorities. If the NA cell leader is smart, he's already "shaped the battlefield" by ingratiating himself with the powers that be in the locality. All sorts of ways that can go down, from bringing in the "new town industry or big box store" to just buying the town up outright. All of these ways can explain away a lot of bodies after TDM ("Oh, they were rioters. Nothing to see here.") Especially if you keep the majority of your firepower and capabilities close to the vest.
+1 to this.

The militia movement was big in the early 1990s. A lot of them were either anti-gov't or white nationalist (many were both).

A racist/nativist sheriff or whatever would likely either look the other way or actively support New America cells in his jurisdiction.

So yeah, New America seems very plausible to me.

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Last edited by Raellus; 12-02-2020 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 12-02-2020, 07:23 PM
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Isn't it mentioned in Howling Wilderness that in the years before the war NA were quietly buying up entire towns and businesses in out of the way locations?
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Old 12-02-2020, 08:25 PM
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All of the NA modules mentioned that. It was a preferred method of establishing a cell pre-war.
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Old 12-02-2020, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Weiser View Post
All of the NA modules mentioned that. It was a preferred method of establishing a cell pre-war.
I knew it was in there somewhere, just couldn't be bothered to look for it.
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Old 12-03-2020, 12:20 AM
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Which once you have bought up the whole town and put your own people in charge. It becomes easier to win over regions as the mass of people interested in the NA grows. In bigger cities if they bought up businesses and put hide outs. Then they could be used to wrest control of neighborhoods that might then be used to build base of operations for taking over the whole city.

I could hazard, if you were to game it out, that the NA approach to the displaced persons in every region was winning the hearts and minds. Sort them with the idea of food, a place to live and a chance to be productive. Then have them attend some social gathering (say church or even a town meeting) with the push by the higher citizens start with the easy cult swaying by laying waste to the old government ("Those politicos in Capital City got us here with...) and start to talk about the wonders of what NA was doing to make things right ("We are giving folks like yourself good jobs right. Feeding you and your family? You feel safe from gangs and crime?"). Then depending on whether said person fits within the alignment of the structure. Sending them off back to work. Keep hammering home the old ways brought the world to this and that the NA has a new way to make it better. Folks will be swayed and they were start to spread the word themselves to others.

You might not even have NA operatives do dirty wet work on the new town's government, like what was alluded to in Airlords of the Ozarks and Allegheny Uprising. With the right charismatic citizen, one could say that even with the town doing right, the old government was part of the system that destroyed the sitcom and Friday night beers. That NA was offering a new way a way that would end war, stop crime, and put a chicken in every pot.
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Now all that said, how NA might get some heavy equipment might be interesting.

The number of incidents in real life where military equipment is sold on the grey or even black market by soldiers looking for some side cash is amazing. Similarly, seeing some things like armored cars that were supposed to be demilitarized and sent to storage yards. The shipments get mixed up or the trucks get stolen. Which yea its only an old V-150 or similar vehicle. That gets stored in some business bunker for later use by NA cells, against civilians, can give the NA an air of authority or even the superior hand to those that don't see the NA way as the new way.
I could also see some heavier crew served weapons like machine guns that are "damaged" getting misplaced on the wrong truck to head to the depot for overhaul and repair. Again end up in the local cell inventory.
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Last edited by Southernap; 12-03-2020 at 12:32 AM. Reason: added some thoughts on how NA might get some heavy equipment
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Old 12-16-2020, 11:00 PM
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New America would just use front companies to acquire military ordnance. Imagine NA purchasing a company like the defunct Military Armament Corporation, best known for the MAC-10. There is a company called Battlefield Vegas (battlefieldvegas.com), with a fleet of working armoured vehicles (including an M60A1, a Leopard 1A5 and M113s) and a large armoury with former weapons of the Wehrmacht, Soviet Army and NATO armies. Customers can fire an M134 minigun, 82mm mortar, D-30 122mm artillery gun and the tank's 105mm guns (due to insurance purposes you pull a lanyard from the rear of the tank attached to the gunner's trigger). New America could easily buy that kind of heavy ordnance using any number of front companies.
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