Oil in T2k

[Targan]

France? Deny the resource to everybody?

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Targan

France? Deny the resource to everybody?

Now that is a very interesting idea. I was so intrigued by it that I jsut double-checked the v1 history to see if the timing would line up. Unfortunately, I don't think it does. The Ploesti oil fields would have been under Soviet control when France enters the war in 1998. A French nuclear strike on Soviet-controlled territory (and Soviet troops in the area) wouldn't be taken too kindly.

Bummer. I wanted it to work.

[Legbreaker]

France wouldn't be about to publicise their involvement, and would anyone else really be in a condition to determine where the strike came from, especially if fired from a sub?
France's move into the middle east and Africa wouldn't have happened on the spur of the moment either. They've clearly had time to observe what's going on around the world and make plans. Very likely any overt move on their part would have been preceded by months of build up and covert action.

That said, I doubt it was them. More likely in my opinion the Soviets used low yield tac nukes on Romanian troop concentrations rather than infrastructure. We know that the Romanians took out at least one Soviet Division (the 280th) by ambush (albeit one wracked by desertions, etc). What better way to neutralise them than by making them glow in the dark? A handful of nukes is also a lot quicker than moving other units into the area for conventional operations and would be able to be carried out before the Romanians could disburse.

Hmm, evil thought - what if the Soviets used the 280th as bait? It was a mobilisation only unit and not exactly effective anyway.... Timeline probably doesn't work too well, but...

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

France wouldn't be about to publicise their involvement, and would anyone else really be in a condition to determine where the strike came from, especially if fired from a sub?
France's move into the middle east and Africa wouldn't have happened on the spur of the moment either. They've clearly had time to observe what's going on around the world and make plans. Very likely any overt move on their part would have been preceded by months of build up and covert action.

That could work. I suppose an SLBM could be impossible to source, unless you had a unit tracking it (and then why would you let it launch, right?). Hm. Maybe it was the French...

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

That said, I doubt it was them. More likely in my opinion the Soviets used low yield tac nukes on Romanian troop concentrations rather than infrastructure. We know that the Romanians took out at least one Soviet Division (the 280th) by ambush (albeit one wracked by desertions, etc). What better way to neutralise them than by making them glow in the dark? A handful of nukes is also a lot quicker than moving other units into the area for conventional operations and would be able to be carried out before the Romanians could disburse.

Yes, the Soviets could have done it, but it seems like the work required to repair the Ploesti refineries and restore them to production after a nuking wouldn't be worth the satisfaction of instantly wiping out the Romanian division defending the facilities. Canon, isn't specific on this point, though, so it's not out of the question. Here's what the v1 history has to say:

In September of 1997, “Limited use of tactical nuclear weapons, the increasing numbers of Soviet reserves, and the withdrawal of the Yugoslavians caused the Romanian front to collapse. As Warsaw Pact columns swept through both countries, isolated military units withdrew into the mountains and began to wage a guerilla war.” V1 Ref’s manual, pp. 25-26

So yeah, the Soviets could have nuked the oil fields, but that still seems really counterproductive, considering the prize. I bet it was the Americans. The SVG mentions that, "the 321st [MRD] was hit by a nuclear strike on its way to Romania," so clearly someone else- probably the Americans- was slinging tac-nukes in Romania too.

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Hmm, evil thought - what if the Soviets used the 280th as bait? It was a mobilisation only unit and not exactly effective anyway.... Timeline probably doesn't work too well, but...

Devious! I think you're right about the timeline not cooperating, though. The SVG says the 280th MRD was destroyed in the spring of 2018, almost a year after the tactical nuclear strikes mentioned in the v1 history quoted above.

[Legbreaker]

Well you've got most of the nukes happening in the second half of 1997 with another weaker exchange around Autumn 1998. Nothing to say there weren't a few small tac nukes used in the meantime though especially since the timelines are primarily referring to strategic level strikes.
We do know the Romanians were reforming regular combat units in early 98 and so would be a very tempting target, especially with NATO attempting to push into Czechoslovakia around this time and forcing the PACT to relocate units to counter them.

Of course there's nothing in canon about any of this, but it is an interesting and plausible idea nonetheless.

[chico20854]

Dragging this zombie thread back to its original topic, I just came across this article on (very!) makeshift oil refineries in Syria. I can certainly see something similar happening in the T2k context for areas that have oil wells, or even a loaded crude oil tanker, pipeline or tank farm to salvage from.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/fr/in-...ries-617075533

And the description in the article of what RL conditions are for the unfortunate folks that are working them would probably be similar in the T2kU.

[castlebravo92]

On a related technical note, given the ubiquitousness of methanol as a transportation fuel in T2K, it's probably worth pointing out that getting ethanes (aka gasoline length hydrocarbons) from methanol to gas conversion is probably less technologically challenging than getting gasoline from sour crude.

https://www.netl.doe.gov/research/co...ol-to-gasoline

Probably not exactly great in terms of net return on energy, but it's one of the processes used to create gasoline from natural gas (which is mostly methane).

Methane -> methanol -> ethanes.

[Green Monkey]

Originally Posted by chico20854

Dragging this zombie thread back to its original topic, I just came across this article on (very!) makeshift oil refineries in Syria. I can certainly see something similar happening in the T2k context for areas that have oil wells, or even a loaded crude oil tanker, pipeline or tank farm to salvage from.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/fr/in-...ries-617075533

And the description in the article of what RL conditions are for the unfortunate folks that are working them would probably be similar in the T2kU.

I've always been interested in these types of improvised refineries in a T2K context. They exist throughout the world ranging from this type of primitive facility in war-torn places like Syria and Chechnya to fairly standardised low complexity "teapot" refineries throughout China.

I think that the availability of basic refined products would be higher than it's presented to be in the world (certainly 1st edition) and I think every faction would be trying to develop this type of thing.