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Old 02-13-2020, 02:20 AM
Lurken Lurken is offline
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Default Northern Europe / Scandinavia Sourcebook

Hi

A fellow T2k:er and me have talked about that it would be fun to write up more information about the theater in Northern Europe beyond what is stated already. The reasoning is that what happens in Scandinavia will cause ripples down to Germany, Poland and the Baltics.

So we will start laying out the basics of what happened in the years leading up to the Twilight War, and during the war.

The main focuses will be the Nordic countries, together with Kola peninsula, Karelia region in Soviet Union and potentially Iceland.

If people would like to contribute, they are welcome to do so. Any and all help is always greatly appreciated.
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Old 02-13-2020, 03:08 AM
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Various regions and their assumed state, going by the descriptions that I have read and surmised.

Norway: Is divided and ravaged by ongoing war. Southern parts are held by NATO/Norwegian forces led by the norwegian king. There was a failed offensive against Narvik(?) that was beaten back by remaining WP-forces.

Finland: Defended fiercely against both NATO and WP. The finnish Lapland region in the north is likely devastated. The border area against soviet Karelia and Leningrad is likely also damaged. Unknown status on the state of Finland.

Denmark: Likely devastated by conventional means early in the war to slow deployment of NATO forces into the Baltic sea. Copenhagen most likely a heap of rubble. Bridges to Germany likely blown up, either by danes, germans or by soviet means. The state of Denmark is likely nominal in name only. Possibly failed state at the end of the war.

Sweden: Saw heavy fighting in the north due to spill over from Norway and Finland when dealing with NATO, WP and marauder forces. The mining industry in north does not exist at the moment. Southern and middle Sweden is likely swamped by refugees from Norway and Denmark, and possibly Finland and other nations at the Baltic Sea. Wartime coalition government. Stable state at the moment, but in a bad position. Possibly sending limited forces to the Baltic states and Poland to secure influence and resources. Possibly having geopolitical struggle against France in Northern Europe.

Kola and soviet Karelia: Likely under formal control of USSR, but may harbor separatists.

Iceland: No idea. Possibly forgotten over the war, except for the total reduction of Keflavik and strategic harbours.
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Old 02-13-2020, 05:45 AM
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That summary sounds about right. I'm thinking Iceland has probably suffered a significant population reduction after being cut off from the outside world and the trade goods that's usually required to support people in that climate.
Those left have likely reverted to old practices to survive, the skills and memories of elders proving absolutely vital to a settlements viability.

I wonder how many of the members of the Swedish expeditionary forces call or compare themselves to Vikings?
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Old 02-13-2020, 09:04 AM
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"Norway: Is divided and ravaged by ongoing war. Southern parts are held by NATO/Norwegian forces led by the norwegian king. There was a failed offensive against Narvik(?) that was beaten back by remaining WP-forces."

Based on the writeup in Boomer it sounds more like that offensive succeeded
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Old 02-13-2020, 09:14 AM
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I'm pretty sure Going Home mentions that the Danish Jutland division returned home in the autumn of 2000 to perform local security functions. This, to me at least, implies that it wouldn't be a failed state, but one that has recused itself from the continuing conflict to focus on recovery.

I've done a write up regarding Sweden's subtle attempts to gain influence in central Europe through diplomatic, economic, and military means. See Post #25:

https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=4881
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Old 02-13-2020, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raellus View Post
I'm pretty sure Going Home mentions that the Danish Jutland division returned home in the autumn of 2000 to perform local security functions. This, to me at least, implies that it wouldn't be a failed state, but one that has recused itself from the continuing conflict to focus on recovery.

I've done a couple of write ups regarding Sweden's subtle attempts to gain influence in central Europe through diplomatic, economic, and military means. I'll share it when I get home.
You are correct about the Jutland Division

Jutland Danish MD (2,000 men): The bulk of this unit has withdrawn from Germany, and repatriated itself to Denmark, either by land or by crossing the straits to the Danish islands of Lolland and Falster, Some personnel have chosen to remain in Germany, and have attached themselves to various military and quasi-military groups.

There is also the Slesvig Regimental Combat Team of 600 men that are in southern Denmark as well - with 600 men and been there since Dec 1997 on internal security duties
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olefin View Post
"Norway: Is divided and ravaged by ongoing war. Southern parts are held by NATO/Norwegian forces led by the norwegian king. There was a failed offensive against Narvik(?) that was beaten back by remaining WP-forces."

Based on the writeup in Boomer it sounds more like that offensive succeeded
Ah! Thank for the note, I'll read up exactly what it says there. But even with Narvik back in the hands of norwegians, Norway are still in a bad spot.


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Originally Posted by Raellus View Post
I'm pretty sure Going Home mentions that the Danish Jutland division returned home in the autumn of 2000 to perform local security functions. This, to me at least, implies that it wouldn't be a failed state, but one that has recused itself from the continuing conflict to focus on recovery.

I've done a write up regarding Sweden's subtle attempts to gain influence in central Europe through diplomatic, economic, and military means. See Post #25:

https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=4881
Thank you! Still points towards that Denmark, if not failed, it doesn't feel well. Mildly speaking. Would you agree on the notion that Denmark is likely reduced early in the war by conventional means to deny NATO easy access into the Baltics?

And your post about the swedes operating in northern Poland is what started this ball rolling =)
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Old 02-14-2020, 04:20 AM
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There is actually semi-official lore surrounding this, as there was an official Twilight 2000 sourcebook in Finnish called "The Nordic Countries".
I'll post the main details here (will post additional details to those interested, I own the book):

Finland is under military dictatorship.
Sweden in in the grips of a civil war.
Denmark is quite okay.
Norway is led by a heroic military-prince.
Iceland is just about normal.
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
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There is actually semi-official lore surrounding this, as there was an official Twilight 2000 sourcebook in Finnish called "The Nordic Countries".
I think there's a thread detailing most of it already?
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:16 AM
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These are what I think are the main hits when I put "Finland" in as the search parameter. There were 130 threads found in total though, and I didn't use any other parameters, so it's quite likely some relevant threads have been missed.

https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=4771
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=5513
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=4412
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3886
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3906
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3868
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3903
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3881
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3352
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=2685
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=1437
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=1438
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=1007
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=716
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=165
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanper View Post
There is actually semi-official lore surrounding this, as there was an official Twilight 2000 sourcebook in Finnish called "The Nordic Countries".
I'll post the main details here (will post additional details to those interested, I own the book):

Finland is under military dictatorship.
Sweden in in the grips of a civil war.
Denmark is quite okay.
Norway is led by a heroic military-prince.
Iceland is just about normal.
I was under impression that it was an unofficial addition, since it was only in finnish. So I am sorta disregarding that book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legbreaker View Post
These are what I think are the main hits when I put "Finland" in as the search parameter. There were 130 threads found in total though, and I didn't use any other parameters, so it's quite likely some relevant threads have been missed.

https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=4771
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=5513
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=4412
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3886
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3906
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3868
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3903
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3881
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3352
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=2685
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=1437
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=1438
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=1007
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=716
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=165
Thank you Legbreaker, some of those threads contained very good information!

Last edited by Lurken; 02-14-2020 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 02-14-2020, 07:52 AM
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The Twilight 2000 sourcebook in Finnish is not official and was never authorized by GDW - so while you can use it if you like its not actually canon
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Old 02-14-2020, 08:52 AM
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Iceland would be in deep trouble. they can not supply enough food for the island current pop. I would expect some people fleeing there after the nuks started to fly. (they would view it as a safe place) I could see powerful people going there and not waiting to just to sit in the hot water and would try to take power in some way. with a shortage of food and fuel (the 4x4 is the state truck after all) things would get ugly.
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Old 02-14-2020, 09:00 AM
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The Twilight 2000 sourcebook in Finnish is not official and was never authorized by GDW - so while you can use it if you like its not actually canon
Yea, and it is rubbish. I went through the translated version that I found, and it manages to contradict itself, inside the book. When describing each nordic country, they list all the nuclear attacks. But further down in the book, when they go around the world, I noticed that the Scandinavia part was totally unchanged from the v.2.2 book. With the exception of the editor note.

HOWEVER, we do not that in Boomer, which is official, they specified that Oslo was nuked. So that stays in. But rest of the attacks were more conventional missile/bomber strikes.

Which means, that the editor must have read and should have realized that the book was self-contradicting. It is total rubbish, sadly.

I think this is just another reason to clean it up and do something more sane and internally consistent.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:33 PM
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Thank you! Still points towards that Denmark, if not failed, it doesn't feel well. Mildly speaking. Would you agree on the notion that Denmark is likely reduced early in the war by conventional means to deny NATO easy access into the Baltics?
Yes, I reckon that the Soviets hit the ports with heaps of conventional munitions (and a few Spetznaz raids), and harbors/channels would be extensively mined. I'm quite surprised that canon doesn't have Denmark being nuked at all (AFAIK).

So yeah, Danish infrastructure would be badly damaged, and Denmark would be suffering from fuel and food shortages as well. Compared to its neighbors, however, I think it would be in relatively decent shape. I don't think that it would be a failed state.

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And your post about the swedes operating in northern Poland is what started this ball rolling =)
That's awesome.

I too am feeling inspired. This thread has got me thinking about creating a proper Nordic Sourcebook.

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Old 02-14-2020, 08:23 PM
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I'm quite surprised that canon doesn't have Denmark being nuked at all (AFAIK).
It's worth keeping in mind the game was originally written assuming American players with American characters in American units doing American things.
Other nations appear tacked on almost as an afterthought. Given the lack of US units in the Scandinavian countries as of 2000, it no surprise there's little detail given of those areas.
Looking at all the game materials, it's really only those regions where US troops are likely to be found or move through that have any reasonably detailed information. The latter books moved some way towards detailing other areas too, but it was still generally assumed I think that there would be US characters involved - Bears Den for example.
Given the time the game was developed, and the fact it was a US company with predominately (perhaps even solely - I don't really know) US staff, and RP gamers in the 80's and early 90's were mostly US, it makes sense. Rather annoying for us now, three decades later as we seek to expand into these other regions, but it's understandable why it is the way it is.

Also worth remembering that besides a few exceptions canon doesn't actually state places were not nuked, only those which definitely were. 1.0, 2.2 and 2.2 all indicate the individual GM is free, even encouraged to add more strikes, even if only as random encounters of tac nuke craters.
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Old 02-15-2020, 11:37 AM
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I went through the translated version that I found,
Where did you find this translated version? How can we get one?
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Old 02-16-2020, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legbreaker View Post
It's worth keeping in mind the game was originally written assuming American players with American characters in American units doing American things.
Other nations appear tacked on almost as an afterthought. Given the lack of US units in the Scandinavian countries as of 2000, it no surprise there's little detail given of those areas.
Looking at all the game materials, it's really only those regions where US troops are likely to be found or move through that have any reasonably detailed information. The latter books moved some way towards detailing other areas too, but it was still generally assumed I think that there would be US characters involved - Bears Den for example.
Given the time the game was developed, and the fact it was a US company with predominately (perhaps even solely - I don't really know) US staff, and RP gamers in the 80's and early 90's were mostly US, it makes sense. Rather annoying for us now, three decades later as we seek to expand into these other regions, but it's understandable why it is the way it is.

Also worth remembering that besides a few exceptions canon doesn't actually state places were not nuked, only those which definitely were. 1.0, 2.2 and 2.2 all indicate the individual GM is free, even encouraged to add more strikes, even if only as random encounters of tac nuke craters.
Thats one reason I did as much research as I did on the East Africa Sourcebook as to likely places for where the nuclear attacks would have occurred based on the size of the refineries and other assets the US and Soviets were trying to deny the other side (as well as letting the South Africans get a few licks in as well). And why when I revised it I changed one nuke strike based on the fact that it really didnt make sense for the Soviets to waste a nuke on that target.
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Old 02-16-2020, 08:37 PM
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And why when I revised it I changed one nuke strike based on the fact that it really didnt make sense for the Soviets to waste a nuke on that target.
Well, the Soviet warheads weren't known for their pinpoint accuracy, and their intel may also have been somewhat dated or inaccurate.
That said, I can't imagine Kenya would have had great security against espionage and general spying either... :/
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Old 02-17-2020, 03:53 AM
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Where did you find this translated version? How can we get one?
I found it attached to one post in one thread here at Juhlin. I'll attach it here too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raellus View Post
So yeah, Danish infrastructure would be badly damaged, and Denmark would be suffering from fuel and food shortages as well. Compared to its neighbors, however, I think it would be in relatively decent shape. I don't think that it would be a failed state.

I too am feeling inspired. This thread has got me thinking about creating a proper Nordic Sourcebook.
Yea, I am convinced that Denmark is in a better state, but to keep up tensions and destabilize Sweden a little, I'll still put lots of danish refugees in Sweden.

Welcome aboard to the Nordic train Raellus =)
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Old 02-17-2020, 08:56 AM
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All the strange things you can find from net. There is 48 pages in the Nordic sourcebook.

This "Nordic sourcebook" is shortened version. Mainly containing information from pages 9-12, 18-19 and from page 48.

Chapter "Elsewhere" is not even from Nordic sourcebook. This material containing global information is probably from Twiligth rulebook (version 2.0 or 2.2).

You can buy all finnish Twilight 2000 modules from here.

https://www.fantasiapelit.com/

Nordic sourcebook cost 5 euros + postal charge.
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Old 02-17-2020, 09:29 AM
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All the strange things you can find from net. There is 48 pages in the Nordic sourcebook.

This "Nordic sourcebook" is shortened version. Mainly containing information from pages 9-12, 18-19 and from page 48.

Chapter "Elsewhere" is not even from Nordic sourcebook. This material containing global information is probably from Twiligth rulebook (version 2.0 or 2.2).

You can buy all finnish Twilight 2000 modules from here.

https://www.fantasiapelit.com/

Nordic sourcebook cost 5 euros + postal charge.

Ah, well, good to know that then.

But it is still only available in finnish. So it is basically unusable.

This is why those books are considered less canon that the City of Angels book, which is too considered pretty non-canon.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:56 AM
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Sapmi: The northern natives.

The Twilight War have caused untold pain, misery and destruction. Yet for a few, it has created opportunities. The Sapmi people have for the region unique adaptability and experience with the lands of the northern reaches of Europe. This have allowed them to expand where others had to withdraw and contract. However, they are still relatively weak and feeble compared to the might of the nations where in they technically still reside. However, those nations are pre-occupied elsewhere, leaving breathing room for them to use their situation. At the moment they are busy playing the powers against each others. Giving scouting aid to Swedish military forces against one group of marauders, while at the same time dropping intel to other maruader remnants that the swedish military cantonments are weakened.

Their ultimate goal is to broker for more power in the north, with the hope to finally have a nation of their own, made from the far reaches of Sweden, Norway, Finland and Soviet Union.
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Old 02-19-2020, 06:06 PM
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Ah, well, good to know that then.

But it is still only available in finnish. So it is basically unusable.

This is why those books are considered less canon that the City of Angels book, which is too considered pretty non-canon.
But how canon is Twilightcycle: 2000?
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Old 02-19-2020, 09:13 PM
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But how canon is Twilightcycle: 2000?
Oh, totally! 100%
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