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Old 12-11-2018, 09:17 AM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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Default Proposal: Types of Project Teams

TM 1-1 advises us that the Project consists of personnel split into three branches, Recon, MARS, and Science, with a fourth, Specialty consisting of members assigned from the Big Three.

So, dealing with a mix of freezing weather, recovering from surgery, not enough sleep, too little caffeine and two insane cats performing the 0800 Crazies….I’m Back with yet another Proposal thread!

I’ve got no problems with the Big Three as written, fairly straight forward and they constitute the majority of the Project. But I’d like to add two more branches, Medical and Logistics & Support.

The Medical Branch consists of the trained Doctors, Nurses, Paramedics, Lab Technicians and supporting staff. During the operational phase of the Project, these are the people who would operate the hospitals, the mobile Medical Teams and provide the Team Medics.

Why split the medical personnel from the science personnel, you ask? While broadly similar in training and outlook, the two branches do operate very differently in real life. The science people are more concerned with the practical use of the numerous scientific fields but may not be really suited for interactions with the survivors, not to mention how it would be a waste of precious training/experience to have, for example, a PhD in Nuclear Physics digging a drainage ditch while three counties over, there is a nuclear power station…

The medical people are more concerned with the healing side of science. IMHO they are better suited for personal interaction, not to mention that their training and equipment/supply needs are vastly different.

Logistics & Support, basically is everyone else in the Project. These are the people manning the fixed bases, operating any Project aviation and marine assets, in other words, the cooks, the bakers, the HVAC repair people, the power generation technicians, the engineers, well you get the idea. If you decided to allow dependents for the team members, then they may very well wind up in L&S, the behind the scenes backbone of the Project.
Thoughts?
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:52 AM
Desert Mariner Desert Mariner is offline
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4e takes this a step further and in addition to the big three, includes:

Medical & Civil Action – Provide immediate assistance to communities and help deal with refugees. After the initial crises they are intended to help rebuild infrastructure both physical (power, water, etc.) and social (education, LE), etc.). At least one large team per region plus a variable number smaller teams.

Agricultural – Intended to get food production and distribution running. At least one per region.

Engineering – Specialists in demolition, repair, recovery and reconstruction, they do everything from salvage and vehicle repair to bridge repairs and getting power stations back on-line. Approximately 1 per state; plus 1 per region.

Specialty – Basically name your specialty. Examples given include engineering team specifically for dam or lock repair, broadcast units, anthropologists, air assets and negotiators.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:14 PM
mmartin798 mmartin798 is online now
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Even with 4ed changes, I agree with Dragoon that the life sciences and physical sciences teams should be separate. Even though I, with my physics background, worked at a biotechnical research lab for a while, my job could have easily been done by an electrical engineer. It would be a waste to tie up physicists helping with a cholera outbreak when a nuclear power plant that is in decent shape could be worked on to bring partially back online.

I see Science teams as having hard scientists and engineer/fabricators together. That way, when some glass work to help isolate factional components from a feeder stock coming out of a resin column is needed, it can be "easily" made by the engineer/fabricators on the team. But they still need to be separated as life science teams and physical science teams.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:28 PM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Mariner View Post
4e takes this a step further and in addition to the big three, includes:

Medical & Civil Action – Provide immediate assistance to communities and help deal with refugees. After the initial crises they are intended to help rebuild infrastructure both physical (power, water, etc.) and social (education, LE), etc.). At least one large team per region plus a variable number smaller teams.

Agricultural – Intended to get food production and distribution running. At least one per region.

Engineering – Specialists in demolition, repair, recovery and reconstruction, they do everything from salvage and vehicle repair to bridge repairs and getting power stations back on-line. Approximately 1 per state; plus 1 per region.

Specialty – Basically name your specialty. Examples given include engineering team specifically for dam or lock repair, broadcast units, anthropologists, air assets and negotiators.
Haven't got 4th Edition...And this is going to sound off, but I have really thought about not adding any additional branches, but Medical and L&S, to me at least, seem to better fill the needs of the Project.

Considering that Agriculture would have agi scientists, leave them in the Science Branch. Engineering is more of a Support so into L&S.

Civil Action, I can kinda, sorta see under Medical, along with any Decontamination teams.

Specialty, I consider that to be a L&S function.
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Old 12-12-2018, 06:54 AM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmartin798 View Post
I see Science teams as having hard scientists and engineer/fabricators together. That way, when some glass work to help isolate factional components from a feeder stock coming out of a resin column is needed, it can be "easily" made by the engineer/fabricators on the team. But they still need to be separated as life science teams and physical science teams.
Interesting, I hadn't given any thought to a team equipped to fabricate, in the field. Have you given any thought to how this would be organized or equipped?
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Old 12-12-2018, 09:28 AM
mmartin798 mmartin798 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragoon500ly View Post
Interesting, I hadn't given any thought to a team equipped to fabricate, in the field. Have you given any thought to how this would be organized or equipped?
I have been working on this idea on a larger scale for a project that I have been working at off and on for a couple years, but I haven't made it on a field team scale. Having worked with these kinds of people before, I would say it would be one person on the team who has skills in engineering, welding, glass working, etc. They don't need to have specialized scientific knowledge about the topic. They just need to be able to work with the scientist to understand what is needed, any special concerns and to tell the scientist what won't work for any number of structural concerns, limits to fabrication, etc.

They wouldn't need much in equipment, as I see the team fabricator being used for simple, quick setups. Anything more complex would have been sent to a regional base to have the gear fabricated there. A set of tools, a small welder, power saw, sander, and some kind of torch should handle most of the demands. Supplies would be the tricky part. Some metal and wood could be scavenged, but there would be need for special materials to be in his kit or in a cache. Things like platinum wire and foil, glass tubing of various diameters, blocks of nylon, and so on that would be difficult to scavenge because they are rare or need to be of a certain quality. I like trailers, so this all could be put into small trailer or make the team's trailer bigger to allow for the fabricator's stuff.

Again, this is all pulled from my personal experience with a machine shop at a university that I worked with when I needed some platinum wire welded to some platinum foil for a sensor I was building. Here is a link to the actual shop:

https://web.pa.msu.edu/services/machine-shop/

I am sure that this could concept stand a little refinement.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:24 AM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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Came across this one at www.fourwheeler.com

The title is “Backward Glances: Military M-818 6x6 and Shop Trailer from the Vietnam era”

The shop trailer is 30 feet long and weighs 31,000 pounds. Technically called a “Shop Equipment, General Purpose Repair, Semitrailer Mounted.”

“The trailer has a 12kw, 240V generator with a 100 percent duty cycle that also powers a Hobart dynamotor 200-amp welder. The generator engine is a Hercules D298 six-cylinder diesel. The hydraulically operated clamshell doors can be attached to a tent that completely encloses the shop for cold or inclement weather, and a 60,000-Btu diesel heater is part of the kit. Shop air is supplied by a two-stage electric compressor with a 40-gallon tank. The machine tools carried were somewhat variable, but normally included a lathe with a milling attachment, shop grinders, valve refacer, drill press, 17.5-ton press, 100-ton press, monorail hoist, oxy-acetylene welder, workbenches, grinders, vices, and lots and lots of handtools.”

“As far as semi-trailers go, the shop trailer isn’t huge. Since mobility in rough terrain is a factor with all military vehicles and equipment, making them as compact as possible is important. The fifth-wheel on the M-818 is rated to pivot 21 degrees up, 15 degrees down, and 7 degrees to the sides. Off-road, the fifth-wheel load is rated at 15,000 pounds, but on-road it’s 25,000 pounds.”

And take a gander at the pics!

Seems like a excellent starting point!!
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:56 AM
mmartin798 mmartin798 is online now
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A modern version would be the Forward Repair System (FRS). Here is a small description. A Project version would replace the generator with a small reactor. The role I see the fabricator in would not need the 10,000 pound crane, so that space could be made into materials storage.

https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/wsh2011/240.pdf
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:53 AM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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Looking over the fas.org stuff you linked, very nice!

So we basically have two options, a single trailer unit towed by a 5-ton tractor or a series of pods fitted to the back of a Hummer(s) or towed as a trailer. Either one works, depending on the time period you set your Project in. I can even see the 5-ton unit being updated as newer tech shows up.

As for the deployment. I can see these units with a National/Regional Engineer Team without a problem. As for the State/Group Engineer Teams, they would more likely tow a trailer with a pod installed.

OR...

This could be a logical item of equipment for the so-called Repair Teams that get the occasional mention. Its hinted that they are the ones to strip the used boltholes of salvageable equipment. Or would they be a Regional asset that conducts major repairs for damaged Project equipment and any necessary repairs to major items such as generators?
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Old 12-14-2018, 07:54 AM
Desert Mariner Desert Mariner is offline
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How much space could be conserved if a time traveling BEM brought back the plans for a 3D printer to be incorporated into the mobile fabrication shop?
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Old 12-14-2018, 09:26 AM
mmartin798 mmartin798 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Mariner View Post
How much space could be conserved if a time traveling BEM brought back the plans for a 3D printer to be incorporated into the mobile fabrication shop?
Not that much. Even assuming you can print plastic parts in a 3D metal printer, you still have at least three machines, each measuring about 3' x 3' x 2', the printer, the debinder, and the furnace. In many cases you need to polish the surface smoother, so you need a machine for that. This setup only lets you make items that fit in an approximately 12" x 7.5" x 7.5" envelope.

The other factor is supplies. The 3D printer would require specialized materials to make anything. More traditional machines could work scavenged metal by cutting, grinding, or even rough milling the outside to get to the good metal in the center.
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:28 PM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is online now
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I've divided my Project into 5 groups:

Recon, pretty much as is and all very generalized - since they will be the first ones awake and won't be able to predict much of what they will encounter.

MARS, pretty much as is but all specialized. For example, all my aviation assets are in MARS.

Science, divided between basic sciences (mostly physics, chemistry, and biology), environmental sciences (including geology, meteorology, zoology, etc), social sciences (anthropology, psychology, etc), and medicine (by far the largest subsection). Science primarily serves and interacts with other Project groups, and are there to help understand how the world has changed since the war and to provide the scientific understanding needed to rebuild. Medicine is a quasi-exception, since they will heavily interact with the populace.

Operations, which runs the Project and all its internal functions. They man the bases, run supply convoys, repair Project vehicles, etc. They don't spend much (if any) time in the field.

Recovery, which guides and provides the specialized skills and equipment for rebuilding. A large number of specialities and team types, Recon, MARS, and Science would all work under Recovery's guidance in rebuilding. Spend all their time in the field but are relatively poorly equipped or trained to operate in unsecured areas.

I could see splitting medicine off into their own branch, not sure if I will though.
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:33 PM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Mariner View Post
How much space could be conserved if a time traveling BEM brought back the plans for a 3D printer to be incorporated into the mobile fabrication shop?
It should also be noted that current 3D printing techniques are very limited in the materials they can use and in the material properties of what they produce. For example, 3D printed materials are usually rougher and much weaker than can be produced by other methods. Plus, different materials require different processes, so multiple units would be required. It might serve a niche role, but some type of advanced mill machine would be more versatile.
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