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Old 12-17-2018, 08:06 AM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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Default NBC Decon Teams

Has anybody ever given any thought to this type?

“Social Engineering and Sociogenesis, The Project’s Real Goals” (located on the supplybunker web site). Refers to a Project team Called NBC Decon. The author describes this as consisting of 63 teams with 200 personal assigned (an average of 3 personnel each). I’ve always found myself at a bit of a loss trying to explain this team. And a large part of it has to do with just how do you decon an entire country?

My first exposure to the scale of the problem was when I happened across the Civil Defense Pamphlet for decontamination, now, this dates back to 1957 but it is interesting in a ‘what in blazes are they thinking’ sort of way. You see, they recommended that the reader use lots of hot or cold water, but with a preference for steam to really decon structures, vehicles, etc.. But for the decon of soil, they recommend scrapping the top 4-6 inches and ‘burying the spoil in large pits.” Wow. Use massive amounts of water, which becomes contaminated, thus creating lots of ‘fun’ for the poor slobs living downstream AND lets dig up millions of tons of contaminated soil and bury it.

Fast forward to today and the picture isn’t much better. The Project can field small teams to decontaminate critical infrastructure, but how do you decon the countryside?
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Old 12-17-2018, 08:49 AM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is online now
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I've always felt the decon teams existed to:

(a) Help populations transition from contaminated areas to uncontaminated areas without bringing that contamination with them. For example, a Team might find a village in a mildly radioactive area, or a town that has been inundated in toxic waste.

(b) Help Project personnel conduct targeted recovery operations in contaminated zones. A Team with a bolthole in a radioactive area might need to see a decon Team before beginning operations, and necessary assets (Project or otherwise) might be in areas that are unsafe without decon afterwards.

(c) Address localized contamination problems where contaminated objects or individuals are brought into clean areas. Survivors might try to scavenge from radioactive cities, or bring an undetonated MIRV into their town without knowing how to handle it.

Large scale decontamination is clearly (to me) outside the scope of what the Project can do. 3 man Teams are, to my way of thinking, bad from a safety standpoint - you might choose to divide up that way afterwards, but Teams should be frozen with the understanding of the assorted risks, and a 3 man Team is not very survivable in an emergency.
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Old 12-17-2018, 10:49 AM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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This is pretty much my take on the Decon Team. Three man teams are obviously too small to have much of an impact, so my thinking is, perhaps a 12-man team. Military decon platoons usually use small turbines mounted on trucks to blow water, and decon chemicals over vehicles. Perhaps something similar, say 4 vehicles, two mounting turbine equipment and two carrying supplies.

So I can certainly see this for the decon mission of a factory or a hospital perhaps. But its the larger picture that gets me...
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:50 AM
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rcaf_777 rcaf_777 is offline
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This is from Chapter 3 of FM 3-21 Chemical Accident Contamination Control

Mission

The mission of the NBC team is to:

Assist technical escort teams.

Determine the extent of the hazard.

Identify the chemical agent involved.

Direct the survey, mark and record the contaminated area, and take samples of biological material.

Recommend procedures for controlling movement of personnel and equipment into and out of the contaminated area.

Decontaminate personnel, equipment, structures, and land surfaces as directed.

Organization

The NBC team should consist of a minimum of one officer and eight enlisted personnel when the team does not have an area decontamination responsibility. When the NBC team is assigned an area decontamination responsibility, it should be augmented with at least four additional enlisted personnel to form a decontamination section. The personnel of the NBC team should be assigned duties as follows:

Team Leader: The team leader is responsible for the operation of the team and will be located in a position most advantageous for the successful completion of the team mission.

Assistant Team Leader: The senior enlisted person will be assigned duties as the assistant team leader and must be capable of assuming the team leader's responsibility when necessary. In addition, the assistant team leader is responsible for operating the team command post and for supervising personnel of the decontamination station, the detection teams, and the decontamination section, as required.

Personnel Decontamination Station (PDS) Operators: At least two PDS operators should be assigned to set up and maintain the personnel decontamination station. They will inspect personnel entering the exclusion area for the proper uniform. They will assist personnel to insure that proper undressing and decontaminating procedures are followed on leaving the contaminated area. PDS operators will insure that all equipment leaving the contaminated area is decontaminated prior to crossing the hot line (equipment operators can assist in the decontamination before going through the PDS themselves). The uniform for the PDS operators will be, as a minimum (since gross contamination is not anticipated), the field uniform, protective mask w/hood, and impermeable accessory items (boot covers, apron, and gloves).

Detection Parties: Two detection parties with at least two people each will be assigned to perform detection, identification, and survey of the contaminated area. One detection party will be composed of the party leader or assistant party leader and one other party member. The protective clothing for the detection party members will be designated by the NBC team leader. As the minimum, each detection party will carry detection and or sampling equipment, appropriate first-aid material, marking equipment, and a means of communication. A small amount of general purpose decontaminant may be carried by the parties, or if the nature of hazardous material is known, the specific decontaminant may be selected.
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:57 AM
Desert Mariner Desert Mariner is offline
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I don’t believe you can plan to decontaminate the countryside. Most chemical agents dissipate fairly quickly and won’t be a long-term issue. Handling radiation will likely be limited to marking the hot areas so that people avoid them.

For the majority of scenarios, I see dedicated Decon Teams as a luxury the Project can’t afford. It’s just too much manpower from a limited pool, unless you take a Recon or MARS team and cross-train them so that they’re dual use. But this creates other issues in terms of the added equipment.

It would be more efficient to train all Project personnel in basic personal and equipment decontamination procedures while providing them with the necessary tools (detectors, M291, M295, etc.). Fixed bases would have more robust capabilities (M17, M12A1, M11, etc.) plus the needed consumables (DS2, HTH, etc.) and all base personnel would be trained in their use.
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Mariner View Post
I don’t believe you can plan to decontaminate the countryside. Most chemical agents dissipate fairly quickly and won’t be a long-term issue. Handling radiation will likely be limited to marking the hot areas so that people avoid them.

For the majority of scenarios, I see dedicated Decon Teams as a luxury the Project can’t afford. It’s just too much manpower from a limited pool, unless you take a Recon or MARS team and cross-train them so that they’re dual use. But this creates other issues in terms of the added equipment.

It would be more efficient to train all Project personnel in basic personal and equipment decontamination procedures while providing them with the necessary tools (detectors, M291, M295, etc.). Fixed bases would have more robust capabilities (M17, M12A1, M11, etc.) plus the needed consumables (DS2, HTH, etc.) and all base personnel would be trained in their use.
Perhaps there should be dedicated Decon Equipment caches that the teams can use instead?

EDIT: and for irony have the area it is in contaminated
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:51 AM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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It’s always fascinating to see other people’s take on the various elements of the Morrow Project. When I first Read “Social Engineering and Sociogenesis, The Project’s Real Goals”, It was the list of teams that really caught my eye. Psyops, Educational, NBC Decon, Ambulance and so on. My thoughts have always run to “Why the extra teams?”

In my own version, many things are settled by adding dedicated Medical and a Logistics & Support Branches. Need a Psychologist or a Trauma Counselor? Convert a couple of the members of a Medical Team! Need Ambulances, nothing says that a couple of the Medics in that same team can’t operate a HMMWV/Ambulance or two. Even a dedicated Decon Team can be easily created by using a Medical Team. That idea that was floated of a Decontamination Cache seems to be very workable, and even deletes the need for a dedicated team.

The NBC contamination, even within a five year wakeup-up time frame, would be pretty much of a non-starter. Contamination of the interior of a factory, seems to be a more believable scenario (especially by adding industrial contamination into the mix.)

The radiological contamination is harder to determine. Using the 150-year wakeup, its most likely that a large amount would have been washed off (meaning that recreational swimming or fishing in lakes, rivers or oceans, might be a very bad idea.) IMO, this type of contamination might be worse if you’re downwind of say Whiteman AFB in Missouri ( with a projected strike of 10 SS-18M2 ICBMs, each with 10 2MT MIRVs….200MTs or a LOT of radioactive material heading downwind!!!) Certainly something that a PD needs to carefully consider.
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