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View Poll Results: What's the Coolest Twilight War Era Camouflage | |||
U.S. Woodland Pattern BDU |
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17 | 24.29% |
German Flecktarn |
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24 | 34.29% |
British DPM |
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17 | 24.29% |
Canadian CADPAT* |
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9 | 12.86% |
Danish Pattern 84 Flecktarn |
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1 | 1.43% |
Polish Pantera |
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1 | 1.43% |
Soviet Camo** |
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4 | 5.71% |
Other (Please Specify in Post) |
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14 | 20.00% |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll |
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#1
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I'm in the mood for a poll. I've been thinking about and researching the appearance of soldiers of the various nationalities involved in combat in the Twilight War's ETO and I've definitely developed my own preferences and opinions. I thought it might be fun to discuss this topic here.
*CADPAT was rolled out in '95 or '96 (RW), so it would probably be somewhat rare and a lot of Canadian troops would probably be wearing their old, plain green fatigues. On the other hand, the prewar Canadian military was relatively small so maybe a larger proportion of them would have CADPAT by late '97. **From photos of Russian Federation troops in Chechnya (and Georgia), it looks like at least a dozen different camo uniforms were in use in the mid-'90s to early 2000s. I've seen coveralls, smocks, fatigues, etc. Not sure what to do for the Soviet poll choice. NOTE: The poll is set so that you can pick more than one but please don't post more than two favorites. BTW, my fav is the Bundeswher Flecktarn pattern.
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
#2
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Flecktarn gets my vote also.
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Author of the unofficial and strictly non canon Alternative Survivor’s Guide to the United Kingdom |
#3
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Coolest? My vote would be the Vietnam-Era Tiger pattern. Not the best pattern, but it does look cool.
Best? As much as it pains my Army soul to say so, I think its the US Marine digital camo. (Yes, I know they stole the idea from the Canadians, but they improved it.) The Army ACUs -- I simply don't believe in "One camo pattern fits all."
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I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com |
#4
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I too like the Tiger Stripe pattern but as for what I think is the coolest, I'm not entirely sure but I'm going with the crowd and picking Flecktarn.
I kind of like this Brazilian version of the French lizard pattern so it would be my second choice. http://camo.henrikc.dk/details.asp?autono=289 For the "What the hell where they thinking?" I would have to pick the Libyan 'Africa Corps' pattern http://camo.henrikc.dk/details.asp?autono=176 For the one I want to wear if I'm going to take drugs, this one from Indonesia has to be one of the best, besides, nobody will be able to tell if you spill any drinks on it http://camo.henrikc.dk/details.asp?autono=226 and last, for kind of cool but not quite cool enough http://camo.henrikc.dk/details.asp?autono=192 |
#5
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Thanks for the cool link SSC. When I lived in Ecuador in '87-'89, the army down there wore a lizard/tiger-stripe style camo kind of like that Brazilian AF. They had a cool mongrel mix of almost obsolete weapons from all over the place- Uzis and FN FALs, Puma and Gazelle helis, Sepecat Jaguars, Kfirs, and Mirage F-1 fighters... Independence Day was usually awesome.
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
#6
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Quote:
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I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com |
#7
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Soviet camo for me!
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#8
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How can anyone go past the love hearts and bunny rabbits on the Australian DPC?
http://www.kamouflage.net/camouflage/00001.php Hmm, after a quick look through, I'm really liking this site! http://www.kamouflage.net/
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem Last edited by Legbreaker; 12-22-2009 at 07:32 PM. |
#9
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Apparently they don't want people stealing images. There is a blank gif over the image. That is actually kinda common nowadays ![]() I think this page will work. http://www.kamouflage.net/camouflage/00001.php Last edited by kato13; 12-22-2009 at 06:28 PM. |
#10
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I like the current Aussie camo. It kind of looks like the leopard spot camo that some U.S. Marine Corps (and SEAL and GB) units wore in the '40s-early '60s, but much more subtle (and, I should imagine, more effective).
I didn't include it in the poll since you probably wouldn't see it in the ETO and I had to set a limit somewhere- otherwise, there'd be dozens of poll choices.
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
#11
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By the way here is another camouflage collector's site http://www2.ttcn.ne.jp/camouflage/english.htm |
#12
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I choose "Other" (Auscam), and not just for patriotic reasons. I think it looks really cool. Like Paul I also liked the Vietnam War era tiger stripe.
Auscam would be incredibly rare in the ETO but it would be there. At least one canon mini-module (What's Polish For G'day) is about Australian troops operating in the ETO.
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#13
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Looking through that site with all of the various camo patterns on it I have decided to go with "Other". The coolest looking one, in my opinion, is the Lizard pattern used by Cyprus. Kinda tiger-stripe-ish, but better looking IMO.
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#14
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http://camo.henrikc.dk/details.asp?autono=157
But on the other hand a picture with each alternative answer would be great in future polls... and maybe even seperate polls for winter urban desert woodland night ...other
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The Big Book of War - Twilight 2000 Filedump Site Guns don't kill people,apes with guns do. ![]() |
#15
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CADPAT
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"You're damn right, I'm gonna be pissed off! I bought that pig at Pink Floyd's yard sale!" |
#16
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But much of that reason is due to delays with product quality difficulties. I first saw sets during the late 90s with T&E. That said, it'd still be very rare and probably only for units deployed in Canada in small numbers in localized places. Perhaps to distinguish certain units from pro-Quebec or other rebellious forces.
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#17
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I will ask my brother about CADPAT, he would know; but he is probable busy, he became a father again yesterday afternoon for the second time. So I guess I will have to wait.
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"You're damn right, I'm gonna be pissed off! I bought that pig at Pink Floyd's yard sale!" |
#18
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I had come to believe from a few things I had read that CADPAT was developed in the early 1990s and was taken on as the official uniform in 1997. Seems I was only partly correct.
This site mentions that initial trials were done in 1998 with another lot of trials done in 2001 so it looks as though there was a fair bit of time between intitial development and large scale issue http://www.hyperstealth.com/CADPAT-MARPAT.htm I think it would be believable that development could have been sped up due to the war between Soviets and Chinese and so while it would be rare, it could have found its way to Europe when NATO and WTO clashed. |
#19
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Speeding up production probably meant a lot of these problems were overlooked and as a result discarded by the troops rather quickly in favor of the old sets. |
#20
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He asked me: "Have you washed your uniform yet?" I answered, "Yes, Corporal." He said, "Then you look just like them in NODs." *NODs= Night Observation Devices -- the common slang at the time for night vision goggles.
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I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com |
#21
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IIRC, the U.S. produced a night-time desert camo suit overlaid with a grid pattern. I can't remember the name for this uni. Supposedly, the grid pattern made the suit harder to pick out by NODs. Haven't seen the suits since the late '80s and early '90s so...
Does this mean they didn't work as advertised? Or what?
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
#22
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__________________
Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it. |
#23
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From what a friend said to me, the night desert camouflage doesn't work as well against newer night vision gear particularly thermal imagers. That's probably why it isn't still in use maybe?
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#24
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"Night Desert" performed worse than every other camouflage (including overwhites) during some unofficial field trials. That is a shame I thought it looked cool.
http://yarchive.net/mil/night_camo_clothing.html |
#25
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I managed to pick up a couple complete sets of the Danish and Polish camos (including in Goretex) and have been spotted pimping both around town from time to time!
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I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory. Someday this war's gonna end... |
#26
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In the T2K timeline for Europe, probably the Norwegian and Swedish patterns -- always liked the lines of both. Though I liked the old Austrian camo that they phased out in favor of OD green back in the 70s I think. T2K globally -- some of the South African patterns from back then were really cool.
Real world, Multicam rules the roost right now, though there are some quality competitors out there and coming online. ACUpat gets a solid nod as they worst camouflage fielded since the French though baby blue overcoats would help hide their guys if they were skylined on the horizon. Oh, and the Soviet "Flora" and "Dubok" patterns are pretty cool, and would be T2K current, I think. Last edited by HorseSoldier; 05-13-2010 at 07:24 PM. |
#27
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British DPM got my vote.
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"There is only one tactical principal which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time." --General George S. Patton, Jr. |
#28
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Couldn't chose between Flectar and DPM.
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#29
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I do think the new combat uniform that is being fielded by the US Army in Afghanistan better than the ACUs, but then again, I just don't agree with the concept of "one camo pattern fits all," and the new uniform is supposed to be another universal camouflage pattern that is to eventually be issued to all US soldiers.
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I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com |
#30
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I don't suppose anyone has read much about the British Army's (and eventually the rest of the British forces), PECOC programme, which will be replacing Combat Soldier 95 and the traditional DPM pattern sometime in the near to mid future?
Recent rumblings (mainly from an ARRSE member who is a member of the trials and development team) seem to indicate that it is actually both a very good equipment set and camouflage scheme, should the MoD pull their finger out and and field it in the way it is intended. As for the specific camouflage pattern, a lot of pictures of different trials patterns have appeared online, though I believe a final version has yet to be settled on (though a Crye-like multicam seems likely). By all accounts it will likely retain the same general colour mix as DPM, but in a different pattern and ratio to obtain a better camouflage effect. The programme managers are pushing for retaining a desert pattern rather than going for an all-purpose camo. Basic issue will also become more sensible. For example, the current issue of CS95 includes two identical DPM smocks. The PECOC equivalent proposes the issue of two externally identical smocks (to prevent infuriated RSMs, WOs, and other people of that nature), but which will have different properties with regard to warmth, etc, thus providing a greater range of capabilities. Even more interesting are the tales of all the anciliary parts to the kit, and the rumours of what equipment will become core issue. On the table at the moment is a proposal to make some form of body armour part of every soldier's basic issue, as no-one deploys without it, and most training is conducted with it, although presently it tends to come from a central pool that is dished out on an as needed basis. Furthermore, the plan is to have additional kinds of body armour system available depending on role and theatre. Webbing will be updated, again with several setups available, though an improved version of the current belt kit is the main focus, given that it is very popular with troops and quite versatile. The intent is to issue several more pouches of varying types than you need, so you can tailor it to your needs. Bergens, daysacks, assault vests, helmets, eyewear, etc all fall under the programme, and the plan is to integrate all the equipment worn by soldiers, rather than the present mess of things introduced a bit at a time. Interestingly, rather than order items in one huge lump and be stuck issuing them from here to forever, PECOC equipment will be obtained in relatively small numbers, the idea being that as each run of kit nears its end, improvements can be easily integrated into the next version. This pretty much formalises the present system of operational kitting anyway - the squadron we took over from had slightly better stuff than those before them, we had slightly improved kit over them, and our successors had better gear than us. The idea is to explicitly build that assumption into the kitting system and thus get better kit all round. The only downside, of course, is that all this good stuff has to be paid for, and someone will work out a way of cutting the budget, and thus the quality, somewhere. Anyway, interesting proposal, the troops trialling the kit have been very favourable, and the project team has shown itself to be very willing to come round to units and show them the gear and gather opinions. If it works, it could well be a model of how to procure equipment. Worth keeping an eye on. |
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