Horsemen of the Apocalypse

[rcaf_777]

in bicycle vs horse calvary, bicycles win hands done you only have one (rider) vs two (rider and animal)

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

in bicycle vs horse calvary, bicycles win hands done you only have one (rider) vs two (rider and animal)

Good point, but bicycles are pretty much road-bound whereas horses are not. Advantage horse-cav.

[Legbreaker]

For most of Australia's history, the army has been purely a volunteer force made up primarily of infantry - every single soldier actually WANTED to be there. Some cavalry units existed, and there was authorisation for even greater numbers, however the sticking point was cavalrymen had to provide their own horses....

On a different, but related note...
https://www.awm.gov.au/wartime/44/page54_bou
https://www.historyhit.com/the-role-...world-war-one/
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/wo...ne-horses.html
https://youtu.be/7yuZ4vowQJc

[dragoon500ly]

Pulled this from some old Cavalry Journal articles...interesting!

Horses require 12 pounds of grain per day (mostly corn).

A wagon, pulled by a 6-mule team can haul roughly 2,000lbs.

Wearing pack saddles, the same 6 mules can carry only 200lbs each, total of 1,200 pounds. Mules require 10lbs of grain per day.

Terry's Column (Little Bighorn Campaign) numbered some 1,131 personnel and 1,694 horses and mules required eight tons of supply per day, carried by 150 wagons...even when rolling four abreast, the wagon column stretched over a half mile.

[therantingsavant]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Good point, but bicycles are pretty much road-bound whereas horses are not. Advantage horse-cav.

Good point - Travel Move for bicycles is 65/15 vs mounted max 40/40 (horse forced marched) or 30/30 (mule force marched).

So if you have access to roads bicycles have an edge in speed and need less food (rider only) and some upkeep but lose out with load (only what the rider can carry vs what mount can carry) and need (minimal) maintenance - as the Twilight world progresses and roads deteriorate the balance will presumably shift...

I've got some notes for a bicycle article and motorcycles in the Twilight World need their own treatment but still thinking it over






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[Vespers War]

I did a very short post on World War I motorcycles (stats, no analysis) on my blog in 2017.

[therantingsavant]

Originally Posted by Vespers War

I did a very short post on World War I motorcycles (stats, no analysis) on my blog in 2017.

Thanks will check it out - there's an article I found somewhere on WW2 Army motorcycles that was decent will try and dig it out and link if I get a chance...

Edit: found it here.


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[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by therantingsavant

Good point - Travel Move for bicycles is 65/15 vs mounted max 40/40 (horse forced marched) or 30/30 (mule force marched).

So if you have access to roads bicycles have an edge in speed and need less food (rider only) and some upkeep but lose out with load (only what the rider can carry vs what mount can carry) and need (minimal) maintenance - as the Twilight world progresses and roads deteriorate the balance will presumably shift...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've got some notes for a bicycle article and motorcycles in the Twilight World need their own treatment but still thinking it over

Before we make rash decisions let do some reading

http://www.combatreform.org/atb.htm
https://www.landroverweb.com/mountai...ooper-shop.htm
https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2...on-two-wheels/
https://www.bikeshophub.com/blog/201...-that-and-more

[Legbreaker]

Only 50 lbs /22 kgs for an infantryman?
In what reality is that? My webbing alone was usually about that heavy!

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Only 50 lbs /22 kgs for an infantryman?
In what reality is that? My webbing alone was usually about that heavy!

Its an average, soldiers should carry no more 32% of their total body weight
or they risk becoming combat ineffective do fatigue

my total carry limit is 64 pounds, which includes, ruck, webbing, helmet, weapon and body armor

[rcaf_777]

More info, remember this is not a new concept

http://ridethisbike.com/2007/02/para...-military.html

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008...s-bicycle.html -Scroll to number 7.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Its an average, soldiers should carry no more 32% of their total body weight or they risk becoming combat ineffective do fatigue

Never going to happen in reality. As mentioned, my webbing alone often weighed about that. Add in pack, etc and I doubt I ever came in at less that 50 kgs, and that at a time when I was only 65kgs myself!

That said, I could carry that load at a fast walk (about 8kph/5mph) pretty much all day long. Make me run more than a few paces though and I was done.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

I've got some notes for a bicycle article and motorcycles in the Twilight World need their own treatment but still thinking it over

Before we make rash decisions let do some reading

http://www.combatreform.org/atb.htm
https://www.landroverweb.com/mountai...ooper-shop.htm
https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2...on-two-wheels/
https://www.bikeshophub.com/blog/201...-that-and-more

I am not saying that the chart is wrong, just that it does not match up with what I have seen and read other places. Some maybe just because they simplified things down, I have read several places that during the American Civil War/Indian Wars Infantry would move greater distances per day than Cavalry. From what I have been told (by reenactors) is that the time taken to feed and care for the horse is what makes the difference, but this is all second hand at best. When I was deployed to Iraq we did movements lots of time of 400+ miles in a day, day in and day out. It looks like they have their figures for only a eight hour work day, not sure what military works that few hours in a day. As for the AAV the image makes it look like it is wheeled, but the only AAV that I know of is the USMC Assault Amphibious Vehicle and it is tracked but still able to do up to 45mph on road so not sure why they limited it to 66% max (understand not having it go max out) when the 5 ton with a max of about 50-55 depending on truck (from first hand experience) they have doing 40 or about 80% of max. And lastly three gallons of water per troop per day? Is that for field hygiene as well as drinking? If not that sounds like a lot to me to be drinking unless you are walking for eight to ten hours. So I guess I am saying I do not have enough background to say it is wrong, but enough to say it looks weird.

[Vespers War]

Originally Posted by CDAT

And lastly three gallons of water per troop per day? Is that for field hygiene as well as drinking? If not that sounds like a lot to me to be drinking unless you are walking for eight to ten hours. So I guess I am saying I do not have enough background to say it is wrong, but enough to say it looks weird.

It's not too far off for arid or jungle environments. The Army's Water Planning Guide calls for 1.65 gallons per soldier per day in temperate climes, 2.2 gallons/soldier/day in the cold, and 3.3 gal/sol/day for jungle or arid environments. That doesn't include water for food preparation, hygiene, or medical treatment.