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Old 04-24-2014, 02:37 PM
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Default The A-10 in T2k - still the most flying?

Yeah, I know, canon says no or next-to-no avgas, etc., but putting that aside or even taking in to consideration that TAC would hold some "strategic reserves" back, I'm wondering if the A10-A wouldn't be the most-flyable fixed-wing jet in NATO air power such that it is?

The "yes" column:

- it's designed for rough-field operation
- it's really tough
- it's designed for very easy maintenance
- weapon usage doesn't rely heavily on computer systems - lots of analog in A10s up until recently with the A10-C upgrade
- Engines: this is the big one. The A10's engines are TF-30s, which are military versions of CF30s, which equip small jets the world over. Spares and replacements through adaptation should be possible.

The "no" column:

- weren't produced in huge numbers like the F4, F16 and F15
- were VERY valuable targets for WarPac AAA; the Sovs. were scared of the A10
- Unlike 20mm and 30mm rounds (as used by helos like the Apache), the 30mm A10 rounds are pretty much only for the A10...run out of those, and the A10 loses a lot of raison d'etre except as a very costly (for T2k timeline) FO/FAC bird
- using fuel on a slow-and-low CAS/COIN jet not that good an idea

Thoughts?
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:51 PM
Adm.Lee Adm.Lee is offline
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I'm sorry to say that I think the No column outweighs the Yes.

Not quite on-topic, but here's this that I just saw today:
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:43 PM
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I don't know if this is pertinent but the Dutch Goalkeeper [naval] CIWS, in use from the early 1980s and still fitted to a couple of Dutch and British warships, uses the same GAU-8 multibarrel canon as the A-10 does. I don't think the Goalkeeper uses the special depleted uranium AP rounds, though- I'm not sure but I think it uses some form HE. Therefore, the ammo for the A-10 might not be as rare as you think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goalkeeper_CIWS
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:33 PM
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Honestly I think by 2000 if a plane has any pros then it eventually becomes a con.

If a plane is easier to fly, it flies more, it takes more damage, it uses more parts, it is no longer easier to fly.

However the A-10 has a slightly disproportional number flying in the gulf compared to starting numbers before the war.

There are
8 F-16s
7 A-10s
2 F-14s
6 F/A-18s
4 F-18s
4 AV-8B
4 F-15s
4 A-7s
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Old 04-24-2014, 09:07 PM
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Which was the bigger fuel guzzler and the one that was needed most during a T2K lead up campaign. My money would be the A-10's stayed in service long after each sides fighter planes had shot each other down. May not be much fuel left, but there ruggedness would have kept them operational longer.
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Old 04-24-2014, 09:26 PM
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Does anyone know or care to look up when the last A-10 was built? They're in the air over Tucson every day, flying out of Davis-Monthan AFB. And they've been pretty heavily used in Afghanistan. Considering that other airframes with that many flight hours have long ago been retired, it's a wonder that the USAF's A-10s are still so busy.
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Old 05-01-2014, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adm.Lee View Post
I'm sorry to say that I think the No column outweighs the Yes.

Not quite on-topic, but here's this that I just saw today:
I wonder what A-10 Pilot came up with this how can a aircraft with a range of under 280 NMI be a muilt role aircraft?

Ok lets look at the A-10 Mulit Missions

Close Air Support close air support (CAS) is defined as air action by fixed or rotary-winged aircraft against hostile targets that are close to friendly ground or naval forces, and which requires detailed integration of each air mission with fire and movement of these forces OK I get it Yes the A-10 can do this mission

Strike Control and Reconnaissance (SCAR), is a mission flown for the purpose of detecting targets and coordinating or performing attack or reconnaissance on those targets Strike coordination and reconnaissance missions are flown in a specific geographic area and are an element of the command and control interface to coordinate multiple flights detect and attack targets neutralize enemy air defences and provide battle damage assessment. Not sure dose the A-10 and modern comm suite that can handle this also can you put a camera on the A-10 and dose it lack of speed make thses flight unwise?

Combat search and rescue (CSAR) are search and rescue operations that are carried out during war that are within or near combat zones. A CSAR mission may be carried out by a task force of helicopters, ground-attack aircraft, aerial refuelling tankers and an airborne command post.

The USAF HC-130, which was introduced in 1965, has served in the latter two roles

Air interdiction (AI), also known as deep air support (DAS), is the use of aircraft to attack tactical ground targets that are not in close proximity to friendly ground forces. It differs from close air support because it does not directly support ground operations and is not closely coordinated with ground units. Unlike strategic bombing, air interdiction is not meant as an independent air campaign, as its ultimate purpose is to aid ground operations rather than to defeat the enemy by air power alone. Can't F-15 or B-1 with smart weaposn to the same thing?

Forward Air Control Aircraft (FAC-A), Forward air control is the provision of guidance to Close Air Support aircraft intended to ensure that their attack hits the intended target and does not injure friendly troops. This task is carried out by a forward air controller may form part of a Fire Support Team or Tactical Air Control Party, they may be ground based, airborne in fixed-wing aircraft or in helicopters It only has a pilot and agian is lack of range might hamper it use in this role

Anti Maritime (AM) is concerned with the suppression of surface combatants. More generally, it is any weapons, sensors, or operations intended to attack or limit the effectiveness of an adversary's surface ships.

Today, air anti maritime is generally conducted by stand-off attacks using air-launched cruise missiles or air-to-surface missiles.
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Old 05-01-2014, 02:17 PM
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remember we are talking about what would be flying in 2000 and needed in 2000

unless you are in the Middle East the days of air combat are over (unless you count dirigibles and ultra lights over Arkansas) as are long range bombing missions (when aviation fuel is literally being watched over like gold bricks today)

so what is left to use scarce aviation fuel on

transport flights

patrol/recon

close air support - especially when your side doesnt have tanks and they do - which given the fact that the US left most of their tanks in Germany is a fact of life for both MilGov and CivGov

the A-10 is perfect for two of those missions - and actually can perform the counter air mission as well if needed when the planes they are engaging are dirigibles, ultra lights and the odd Cessna or Piper Cub that New America managed to get into the air


and I dont agree with what canon says about next to no av gas - there are still working oil wells and refineries in the US - it didnt say 100 percent knockout it said 60 percent - and if you process a 42 gallon barrel of oil you will get 4 gallons of jet fuel from it along with lubricants, gasoline and diesel fuel

plus as "A River Runs Thru It" explained their is still air transport going on between MilGov in New England and the rest of the US with the air facilities in NJ acting as a landing and refueling station - that doesnt mean anyone is swimming in it but it does mean they have enough for essential missions - so the question is what aircraft get parked and what get used?

F-15's and B-1's are great but unless there is a need to lay down a load of whoopass on a big target or the Russians in San Antonio get their hands on that off shore air platform and get all those helos airborne again they really dont hav a mission in 2000

Last edited by Olefin; 05-01-2014 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 05-02-2014, 07:46 AM
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Another Question should be what is it going to carry?

what is the us going to have left is the way of aircraft muntions? I thinking that Iron Dumb Bombs are about all that left but where do you think that they would be kept?

Would the location surrive the war intact?
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:29 AM
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Most likely ammunition dumps were dispersed early in the war - and the Colorado Springs government has been moving stuff that way since 1998 - so possibly they may have moved a lot of ordinance that way along with the nuclear warheads they grabbed

and there are a lot of old dumb bombs around - if you postulate that the Gulf War didnt occur then the US may still have stuff left over from WWII and Korea and Vietnam that can be used

and compared to making missiles and smart weapons, making ammo for the Gatling Gun is a lot easier done -
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