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Old 05-19-2020, 08:15 AM
Enfield Enfield is offline
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Default Urban Guerilla and Florida

I'm going to be starting a campaign based on a mixed civilian and military group aiding in recovery efforts based out of Gainesville, Florida. It consists of a FEMA rep, a Deputy US Marshal, a State Trooper, an Army Intelligence officer, and an Army logistics officer. While engaged in this, they discover that the main threat to stability is coming out of the New America cell in St. Petersburg.

There are a lot of details to work out that GDW just left blank. The following, for instance:

1. Gainesville. (I know that Twilight 1962 had a brief entry on this, which I have read)

2. Camp Blanding (According to Urban Guerilla, 3rd Brigade, 108th is based there. Twilight 1962 suggests that the base was overrun and looted by mutineers who went marauder.)

3. Sea Lord of Jacksonville (If using the TW 1962 model, then in theory this would be a rogue military commander, possibly from Blanding)

If anyone had run this campaign and depicted these areas please let me know.

I've been watching Youtube videos on Florida and reading up on things.
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Old 05-19-2020, 09:19 AM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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FYI one other thing they forgot was the USS Constitution replica that was supposed to be heading home after Grenada for St. Petersburg. So the question is did she get home before New America took over and they now have the ship or did she go somewhere else either during the takeover or before.

That ship would be a real asset either for New America or anyone else in the area.

If you look at Howling Wilderness and U.G. there are some details on the area you are looking at.

Keep in mind that the Seminole Indians are also a factor in the area and they are not NA friendly by the end of UG.

If you look at the details of the letter that was included in UG you can see some information on all three areas as well as what was provided in HW

1. Gainesville - the Blueprint mentions that it is under the control of an ROTC unit that was at the University of Florida lead by the professor of military science Colonel Murphy (Tara Murphy from the Grenada module is his granddaughter)


2. Camp Blanding (According to Urban Guerilla, 3rd Brigade, 108th is based there. They are still there and NA has penetrated the brigade but has not yet had success bringing them to their side. HW has them getting ready to possibly go to the offshore island in GA to be able to survive by fishing

3. Sea Lord of Jacksonville - UG says that there are military and civil forces in the area that NA is working to penetrate and that they have control over two major subdivisions - from that I would infer that he is possibly a naval officer from the nearby Naval Air Station or Naval Base that "went rogue" after the nuclear attacks
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Old 05-19-2020, 03:30 PM
Vespers War Vespers War is offline
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Just as a note, UF has ROTC units for all branches of the military (and has since 1946), so there's plenty of flexibility in creating that unit.

One of the areas where I'll quibble with what's written is that the Seminole shouldn't be as dominant as presented, at least if they're as xenophobic as described. The real-world Seminole Tribe of Florida had only 2,000 members in 2000, with the lower criteria for background being quarter-blooded Seminole. That sounds like a decent-sized group for T2K, but it includes noncombatants, so they can likely only put a few hundred combatants in the field over hundreds of square miles of territory. The easiest way for me to reconcile this is for their presentation in UG to be what NA believes is happening. They're unlikely to actually be getting first-hand information from the region the Seminole claim to control, so propaganda may be credited here.
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Old 05-19-2020, 08:32 PM
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I might old snaps of Blanding been there a few for exercises
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Old 05-20-2020, 05:33 PM
Enfield Enfield is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olefin View Post
FYI one other thing they forgot was the USS Constitution replica that was supposed to be heading home after Grenada for St. Petersburg. So the question is did she get home before New America took over and they now have the ship or did she go somewhere else either during the takeover or before.

That ship would be a real asset either for New America or anyone else in the area.

If you look at Howling Wilderness and U.G. there are some details on the area you are looking at.

Keep in mind that the Seminole Indians are also a factor in the area and they are not NA friendly by the end of UG.

If you look at the details of the letter that was included in UG you can see some information on all three areas as well as what was provided in HW

1. Gainesville - the Blueprint mentions that it is under the control of an ROTC unit that was at the University of Florida lead by the professor of military science Colonel Murphy (Tara Murphy from the Grenada module is his granddaughter)


2. Camp Blanding (According to Urban Guerilla, 3rd Brigade, 108th is based there. They are still there and NA has penetrated the brigade but has not yet had success bringing them to their side. HW has them getting ready to possibly go to the offshore island in GA to be able to survive by fishing

3. Sea Lord of Jacksonville - UG says that there are military and civil forces in the area that NA is working to penetrate and that they have control over two major subdivisions - from that I would infer that he is possibly a naval officer from the nearby Naval Air Station or Naval Base that "went rogue" after the nuclear attacks

Yes, this is all typical of the Twilight 2000 material for America--vague and requring a lot of work from the gm.

However, that's a good point about the USS Constitution. I may give that one some thought. It could either become a vessel in the NA Navy or else be something that might assist the pcs. Have to decide which.
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Old 05-20-2020, 05:37 PM
Enfield Enfield is offline
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Originally Posted by Vespers War View Post
Just as a note, UF has ROTC units for all branches of the military (and has since 1946), so there's plenty of flexibility in creating that unit.

One of the areas where I'll quibble with what's written is that the Seminole shouldn't be as dominant as presented, at least if they're as xenophobic as described. The real-world Seminole Tribe of Florida had only 2,000 members in 2000, with the lower criteria for background being quarter-blooded Seminole. That sounds like a decent-sized group for T2K, but it includes noncombatants, so they can likely only put a few hundred combatants in the field over hundreds of square miles of territory. The easiest way for me to reconcile this is for their presentation in UG to be what NA believes is happening. They're unlikely to actually be getting first-hand information from the region the Seminole claim to control, so propaganda may be credited here.
Right, it could be something where fear and rumour has more power than the Seminoles themselves.
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:06 PM
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Or, here is a thought? The Seminoles aren't just Seminoles. They are a collection of communities who have rallied around the Seminole tribal council on the basis of *it works.*

The New Americans, of course, have made assumptions that the Seminoles are the real power, whereas they're just first among equals. The Seminoles are happy to encourage this view, as it seems to discourage New American adventurism.
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:00 AM
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Speaking as a non-American, what sort of impact do the Cajuns/Acadians have in the Florida region?
I don't know what the modules say about them because I haven't read most of them in a very long time but as a non-American, the Cajuns appear to be an interesting group that could be a help or a hindrance to the PCs (and anybody else) with one group of Cajuns potentially being friendly but with the next group being indifferent or even hostile towards the PCs.
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:22 AM
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Who's to say the USS Constitution has even reached that far yet?
One option to introduce the PCs to the ship is have it arrive after TF34 leaves Germany - November 2000 or even later. Other options are a pick from Turkey or even Israel.
Urban Guerilla is set in 2001, but that could well be January, which doesn't leave much time to get across the Atlantic via the West Indies.
Also, would Captain Christiansen persist with docking at St Petersburg after potentially hearing the area has been taken over by NA? Gateway does open with an encounter involving pirates associated with NA, and John Hammersmith is supported by them. Captain Christiansen is clearly concerned about NA too (see pages 23 & 27) and directs the PCs to seek out and pass on any information about them.
Given all that, it's possible a new destination was selected rather than risking the ship and crew just because they used to call that particular port home.
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Old 05-21-2020, 05:01 AM
Enfield Enfield is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Weiser View Post
Or, here is a thought? The Seminoles aren't just Seminoles. They are a collection of communities who have rallied around the Seminole tribal council on the basis of *it works.*

The New Americans, of course, have made assumptions that the Seminoles are the real power, whereas they're just first among equals. The Seminoles are happy to encourage this view, as it seems to discourage New American adventurism.
Good point. In the present decade, we've seen political adtivists rallying around Native American/Canadian/South American causes, which includes everything from radical environmentalists to outright Marxists. Very good point.
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Old 05-21-2020, 05:04 AM
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Who's to say the USS Constitution has even reached that far yet?
One option to introduce the PCs to the ship is have it arrive after TF34 leaves Germany - November 2000 or even later. Other options are a pick from Turkey or even Israel.
Urban Guerilla is set in 2001, but that could well be January, which doesn't leave much time to get across the Atlantic via the West Indies.
Also, would Captain Christiansen persist with docking at St Petersburg after potentially hearing the area has been taken over by NA? Gateway does open with an encounter involving pirates associated with NA, and John Hammersmith is supported by them. Captain Christiansen is clearly concerned about NA too (see pages 23 & 27) and directs the PCs to seek out and pass on any information about them.
Given all that, it's possible a new destination was selected rather than risking the ship and crew just because they used to call that particular port home.

In my campaign the PC group ended the arc of their European characters when they got home. When we talked about it, they felt that they would get integrated into a larger unit, which had been what they had wanted to do. That made sense to me; they were very much an HQ/Support unit that got cut off, not a band of adventuerers or special ops or anything. Anyway they got home via a frigate that picked them up on the Italian coast.

So if the Constitution is featured, it would have to be introduced in the Florida campaign. But you make a good point. The ship might simply be a good source of backup/support as it is in Gateway to the Spanish Main.
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Old 05-21-2020, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic View Post
Speaking as a non-American, what sort of impact do the Cajuns/Acadians have in the Florida region?
I don't know what the modules say about them because I haven't read most of them in a very long time but as a non-American, the Cajuns appear to be an interesting group that could be a help or a hindrance to the PCs (and anybody else) with one group of Cajuns potentially being friendly but with the next group being indifferent or even hostile towards the PCs.
More of a Louisiana thing, I had thought. from the wikipedia entry
Quote:
Geography had a strong correlation to Cajun lifestyles. Most Cajuns resided in Acadiana, where their descendants are still predominant. Cajun populations today are found also in the area southwest of New Orleans and scattered in areas adjacent to the French Louisiana region, such as to the north in Alexandria, Louisiana. Strong Cajun roots, influence, and culture can also be found in parts of Southern Mississippi. These areas include Bay St. Louis, Pass Christian, Gulfport, Gautier, Natchez, D'Iberville, and Biloxi, Mississippi. Over the years, many Cajuns and Creoles also migrated to the Houston, Beaumont and Port Arthur areas of Southeast Texas, in especially large numbers as they followed oil-related jobs in the 1970s and 1980s, when oil companies moved jobs from Louisiana to Texas. However, the city of Lafayette is referred to as "The Heart of Acadiana" because of its location, and it is a major center of Cajun culture
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Old 05-21-2020, 05:09 AM
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Two key areas for the Sealord of Jacksonville seem to me to be Mayport Naval Air Station and Jacksonville Naval Air Station. Jacksonville NAS is located on an island, from what I understand, and Mayport is a deep water port.
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Old 05-21-2020, 06:29 AM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legbreaker View Post
Who's to say the USS Constitution has even reached that far yet?
One option to introduce the PCs to the ship is have it arrive after TF34 leaves Germany - November 2000 or even later. Other options are a pick from Turkey or even Israel.
Urban Guerilla is set in 2001, but that could well be January, which doesn't leave much time to get across the Atlantic via the West Indies.
Also, would Captain Christiansen persist with docking at St Petersburg after potentially hearing the area has been taken over by NA? Gateway does open with an encounter involving pirates associated with NA, and John Hammersmith is supported by them. Captain Christiansen is clearly concerned about NA too (see pages 23 & 27) and directs the PCs to seek out and pass on any information about them.
Given all that, it's possible a new destination was selected rather than risking the ship and crew just because they used to call that particular port home.
Gateway to the Spanish Main takes place in Sept 1 to Dec 15 2000 according to the timeline and NA doesnt go active until Jan 1 2001 in St Petersburg - so she very well may have been there when NA took over publicly there

The operatives who were building the fleet and taking the kids captive (which according to UG was foiled meaning the timeline shows that the fleet was destroyed and the kids freed) were NA linked - so there is a chance the Captain chose an alternate destination after that
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:37 AM
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Actually, page 20 of Gateway states it's the 1st of December, and earlier on pages 3 & 6 places the ship at Bremmershaven on the 16th of November.
Also, just because NA went public on the 1st of Jan 2001 doesn't mean they weren't already active. We can see this is true because of the Letter of Marque in the strongbox which could be recovered on the 1st of December as well as all the arms provided to Hammersmith's pirates on Carriacou, not to mention Jones' job to kidnap the girls, which he knows has come from "New America".

With all that NA activity in the area, it's quite possible the PCs and through them Captain Christiansen, find out about St Petersburg potentially being not as friendly as hoped. At the very least a cautious approach would be in order and absolutely well within character for the captain.
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:27 AM
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Oh I agree with you Leg - and in fact I would think that since Urban Guerrilla didnt mention them there ( you would think thats a big point to miss) that they must have gone somewhere else - question is where - Jacksonville and join up with the Sea Lord? Norfolk and join up with MilGov? Possibly Georgia to join up with the CivGov forces there (they would probably love to have her as a possible way to keep in communication with their forces in Yugoslavia - that would be a heck of an adventure to GM)? Lots of interesting way she could be used.

about the only thing we know is that she was part of the effort to foil the NA plans in Grenada - and that they were foiled

from UG - " and the failure of our agent in Grenada to secure control over General Cummings' granddaughter resulted in failure to gain a handle over Colonel Murphy through his granddaughter as well, but we must look at these setbacks in light of the overall picture"
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:55 AM
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Well, one option for getting on the ship is from Texas, so perhaps (with a little timeline juggling) they went in that direction?
Really, all we know is it's unlikely they actually went to St Petersburg and they're not mentioned anywhere else. It's even possible the ship was sunk!
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:52 PM
Vespers War Vespers War is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Weiser View Post
Or, here is a thought? The Seminoles aren't just Seminoles. They are a collection of communities who have rallied around the Seminole tribal council on the basis of *it works.*

The New Americans, of course, have made assumptions that the Seminoles are the real power, whereas they're just first among equals. The Seminoles are happy to encourage this view, as it seems to discourage New American adventurism.
That's also possible, particularly as there are Black Seminole. The UG Seminole are explicitly supposed to be driving all the white people out of South Florida, which will need some figuring out in a coalition scenario, particularly since the southern counties are all majority white - Broward and Miami-Dade are both close to 70%, Collier is over 85%, and Monroe is nearly 90%. Those numbers drop if one doesn't consider white Hispanic to be white, but it's still something that'll need some thought to be plausible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic View Post
Speaking as a non-American, what sort of impact do the Cajuns/Acadians have in the Florida region?
I don't know what the modules say about them because I haven't read most of them in a very long time but as a non-American, the Cajuns appear to be an interesting group that could be a help or a hindrance to the PCs (and anybody else) with one group of Cajuns potentially being friendly but with the next group being indifferent or even hostile towards the PCs.
Effectively none. There might be a handful in the Panhandle, but they're not a historically significant ethnic group in Florida. The Acadians went to Louisiana because of linguistic ties to France. Florida was Spanish until it was English (and then Spanish again, then American, then Confederate, then American again). Florida's old European settlers are the Crackers, a heavily Scots-Irish group.
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