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Old 10-01-2008, 05:23 AM
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Default Gun questions

I normally dont get into weapon discussions. I dont know allot about them, and i really just limit myself to their game stats.

But now, i have two questions.

1) The british L85. Why does it only have a magazine capacity of 20? I thought 30 was the default amount. 20 seems kinda low for an assult rifle. Even the calibre is 5.56 - so i wouldnt have thought it was related to bullet size or anything. Anyone explain why the mag only holds 20?

2) Kind of a gimmicky question, but genuine just the same. The MP-5 has always been portrayed as a superiour weapon. Special teams (SWAT) use them, they're kinda sexy. From my limted reading the weapon is reliable, a nice weight and it all helps the weapon perform "well". Yet its game stats are average, if you didnt know the names of guns, you coudnt pick the MP-5's stats off the page. Is the MP-5 all its cracked up to be? And if so, which stats if any would or should stand out as being above average?
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:49 AM
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My understanding is that the L85 (and the FN-FNC and possibly the Steyr AUG) all were designed to accept the M-16 magazine, which is available in sizes from 5 rounds up to 100, although the 20 and 30 are standard in US military issue, the 20 much more rarely.

As for the MP-5, I think it has something to do with the sophistication of the action - its an elegant roller system as opposed to a simple blow-back system. What the practical effect is I can't say, but if game stats are based on things like barrel length and rate of fire I can see how it doesn't stand out from the crowd.

I'll wait for some of the real heavy-duty gun guys to opine more...
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Old 10-01-2008, 09:30 AM
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H&K weapons in general are known to be reliable and accurate. Those are the main reasons people choose them.
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Old 10-01-2008, 11:16 AM
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Where do you see that listed KC? I've only seen 30 round listings... ala 30 round STANAG magazines.
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Old 10-01-2008, 12:25 PM
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The MP-5 comes off as more accurate and reliable because of a reliable action with the delayed blowback.

And it is well balanced, can be configured in some many different ways, unlike most SMGs.

And it fires from a CLOSED BOLT position. This aids in accuracy and reliability. It operated more like an assault rifle than a SMG.

And it was bounds ahead of its day. Further, it came really when the SMG was going out of fashion. Since an Assault Rifle was a better weapons system that could do a bit more in addition to most of what a SMG can do. So, it was/is a very good design that had inovations at a time when the SMG was being phased out of most services.

Ask yourself a question, how many SMGs have been on the scene since? And what was their roll and whom they were adopted by?

The SMG was for the most part replaced by the assault rifle in most nations. There really haven't been any big ones since, just smaller Assault Rifles replaced them and were called Submachinegun like the AKR and Colt Comando.

But the MP-5 in my mind would have a better reliability, a bit more accurate, and a better range than most other true SMGs.
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusilier
Where do you see that listed KC? I've only seen 30 round listings... ala 30 round STANAG magazines.
Pretty sure v2.2 rule book has the L85 (IW) with a 20 round mag.
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Old 10-01-2008, 04:17 PM
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In the V2.2 rulebook, the L85(IW) is listed with a 20 cartridge magazine in the Small Arms Firing Chart (pag. 254) and in its own specific card (pag. 104). But in this same card, not in the game statistics line, but in the column just above it, it comes listed as use both 20 or 30 round magazines. So, I suppose that the L85 can use both type of magazines. I suppose the 30 cartridge version is the most used.

In Paul Mulcahy pages, (with permission ) the two versions of mag. are listed.

http://www.pmulcahy.com/assault_rifl...ult_rifles.htm
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Old 10-01-2008, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcdusk
Yet its game stats are average, if you didnt know the names of guns, you coudnt pick the MP-5's stats off the page. Is the MP-5 all its cracked up to be? And if so, which stats if any would or should stand out as being above average?
This is largely because, at the level of detail T2K operates, there isn't that much difference between weapons of a particular caliber and type (eg, 9mm SMG, 5.56mm assault rifle). GURPS, which is more detailed, doesn't have a lot more variance.
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Old 10-02-2008, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copeab
This is largely because, at the level of detail T2K operates, there isn't that much difference between weapons of a particular caliber and type (eg, 9mm SMG, 5.56mm assault rifle). GURPS, which is more detailed, doesn't have a lot more variance.
In 'The System That Shall Not Speak Its Name' that I use there is enough difference in the stats of H&K weapons such as the MP-5 that they are a popular choice. Mostly in the areas of accuracy, weight and the WQ (Weapon Quality) stat.
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:41 AM
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Default mp 5 and l85

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcdusk
I normally dont get into weapon discussions. I dont know allot about them, and i really just limit myself to their game stats.

But now, i have two questions.

1) The british L85. Why does it only have a magazine capacity of 20? I thought 30 was the default amount. 20 seems kinda low for an assult rifle. Even the calibre is 5.56 - so i wouldnt have thought it was related to bullet size or anything. Anyone explain why the mag only holds 20?

2) Kind of a gimmicky question, but genuine just the same. The MP-5 has always been portrayed as a superiour weapon. Special teams (SWAT) use them, they're kinda sexy. From my limted reading the weapon is reliable, a nice weight and it all helps the weapon perform "well". Yet its game stats are average, if you didnt know the names of guns, you coudnt pick the MP-5's stats off the page. Is the MP-5 all its cracked up to be? And if so, which stats if any would or should stand out as being above average?
L85 takes STANAG mags as already pointed out by others -the M16 mags are unpopular -or were rather back when I trained with it due to the fact that tapping the mag into the well to hard could jam it in there and jam the cation too.The squaddies just to say it was a pos and that the original mags that came with the rifle were superior .In a platoon there would always be a few non descript mags .ar15 types ,probably civillian manufactureres etc floating in the mag-pool so to say for various reasons .Some were swapped in joint traiinig,some were bought and used in secrecy by the squaddie that lost his but didnt want to say anything ,some were mixed up at the quartermasters etc etc .(A GM could give his players faulty mags too-there seem to be more faulty ones than good ones offered on th enet these days anyways)

The MP5 -used to be standard smg for the Norwegian military -still is I suppose- many agencies/militaries use them. They are efficient,reliable ,accurate -as far as SMGs are ,similar in some ways to other HK weapons such as G3 etc .I liked my MP5A3 ( I think it was) with the collapsible stock etc .It was issued to squad leaders who have a AnPRC-77,laser range finder,maps,compass,night vision etc etc to lug around too,drivers,gunners,crew men ,MPs,rear echelon types etc etc .

I liked the small weight,its handy, and the reliability -almost never a jam or other troubles,pretty accurate too up to 100 m .But I remember thinking on the big live fire exercises that the MP5 really is somewhat of a pea shoother compared to the rifles etc in a company -more of a self defence weapon or possibly for trench fighting or some such .

many other smgs are probably just as good or better -but the MP5 is solid.
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