Grappling and melee

[Targan]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Why is there a 6-8 week wait for an MRI down under?

I wouldn't be surprised if it was a similar wait here if it was through Medicare (the Aussie version of the NHS). Much quicker if you have health insurance or just pay cash.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Targan

I wouldn't be surprised if it was a similar wait here if it was through Medicare (the Aussie version of the NHS). Much quicker if you have health insurance or just pay cash.

No, I've been in MRI machines (for non-emergencies) less than 20 minutes after the doctor ordered the MRI. But I also have Tricare (the military's "HMO"); that might have helped.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by jester

Then I am reporting you to the plumbers union for violating their thing!

I mean, has anyone here ever had a plumber who didn't show to much crack?

When you report me, tell them my kitchen sink faucet is leaking!

[TiggerCCW UK]

Last time I had an MRI the nurse thought I'd had a fit or a heart attack or something - my breathing went very strange and she couldn't get a response from me. I'd actually fallen asleep in the machine and started snoring I might not have been reg military, but I do have the soldiers ability to kip out anywhere.

[jester]

Last time I had one, well they had to do it several times.

Then the tech came out and said,

"We can't get a good image it's kinda fuzzy"


As he looked at the immage it dawned on him, "Do you have any metal in your leg?"

The M in MRI stands for "MAGNETIC" the Drs seemed to have forgotten that.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

Last time I had an MRI the nurse thought I'd had a fit or a heart attack or something - my breathing went very strange and she couldn't get a response from me. I'd actually fallen asleep in the machine and started snoring I might not have been reg military, but I do have the soldiers ability to kip out anywhere.

I've done that too. And with the medication I'm on, I've fallen asleep during root canals too, especially if the appointment is in the early morning.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by jester

Then I am reporting you to the plumbers union for violating their thing!

I mean, has anyone here ever had a plumber who didn't show to much crack?

I think there are groups for people that are in rehab(recovery from their abuse .

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by headquarters

I think there are groups for people that are in rehab(recovery from their abuse .

<Stands up> My name is Paul Mulcahy, and I have a butt crack problem...

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

<Stands up> My name is Paul Mulcahy, and I have a butt crack problem...

How that relates to the topic of this thread, grappling and melee, I really don't want to know....

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

How that relates to the topic of this thread, grappling and melee, I really don't want to know....

I think it has some small relevance. Are you going to grapple with a man who publicly announces he has a problem with his butt crack?

I think not.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I've done that too. And with the medication I'm on, I've fallen asleep during root canals too, especially if the appointment is in the early morning.

You too, huh? When I had my root canal in 1983/84, I always fell asleep too, my appointments were after school, I had my own car so I drove it to school then the dentist. Basically I just sat there immobile, can't take or do anything but listen to the radio to music so out I went. Actually when the dentist had to shift my head a bit, I was kind of miffed that he woke me up. I could look out the window but my glasses had to come off and I'm terminally nearsighted so I just went inward in my mind.

Same with MRI's, I had a few of those and when they had to do my neck for a car accident, I had to remain still not move my mouth or anything, I could not even talk. I know I could tap once for yes or two for no with my hand, bu that's the only communications I could do. At least with the chest, back and so on, I can talk.

Chuck M.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

Thanks Targ, I'll keep you informed. At the end of the day I can't complain too much, when I dinged the knee back in '91 the doctor told me I'd be on sticks permanently within 15 years.

How'd that MRI turn out anyway Tigger?

[pmulcahy11b]

Let me ignore butt crack problems (some of them mine) and get back to the topic:

I don't think there's much that can be done with grappling and melee within the framework of the rules. Probably, because ability scores are in percentiles instead of a d20 system, more could be simulated in v1 than in v2/2.2. But in v2.2, pretty much a karate expert and a kung fu expert both simply have high hand-to-hand scores.

OK, I changed my mind. I'll bet there are some of you who have already come up with a system that allows variations in martial arts.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Let me ignore butt crack problems (some of them mine).

Paul, ignoring your problem won't make it go away. Stand up and take ownership, we all support you.
In spirit anyway, there's no way I'm going anywhere near your butt!

[Targan]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Let me ignore butt crack problems (some of them mine) and get back to the topic:

I don't think there's much that can be done with grappling and melee within the framework of the rules. Probably, because ability scores are in percentiles instead of a d20 system, more could be simulated in v1 than in v2/2.2. But in v2.2, pretty much a karate expert and a kung fu expert both simply have high hand-to-hand scores.

OK, I changed my mind. I'll bet there are some of you who have already come up with a system that allows variations in martial arts.

Cyberpunk 2020 did some interesting things with martial arts and melee. Actually I'm just being lazy and haven't checked back to the start of the thread and I have a sneaking suspicion that CP 2020's system has been mentioned on this forum before. CP 2020's melee and martial arts system aren't as good as the system we used in my last T2K campaign but as far as fairly roolz-lite goes CP 2020's system isn't bad.

[James Langham]

A quick and dirty stab at a system. Characters taking unarmed combat skill have the OPTION to take a combat form that modifies their effective skill. E.G.

Boxing: +2 punching +1 grappling -2 kicking
Judo/Jui Jitsiu: +2 grappling -1 kicking
Karate: +1 kicking +1 punching -1grappling


Generally the character should end up +1 better off but reduced in at least 1 area.

Not sure how to handle characters who take more than one martial art, maybe making each a cascade skill?

It's simple and takes very little messing around with the rules. Hopefully just enough chrome without much book-keeping.

[B.T.]

@ James:
I think, this is an interesting way to go. Maybe I'll try this in my group.

The thing, that I think is really not that good in the T2k rules (I'm playing Ver2.2!), is the damage. I think, the damage should be increased, but I'm uncertain. Maybe:
Every punch, etc makes 1d6 damage, the "Unarmed Combat Damage" is a bonus. I'm to lazy, to go for my rules right now, but IIRC, the damage of a punch or a kick (Not a leaping kick!) is the same. If that's true, the damage of a kick should be higher than the damage of a punch.

Hm ...

[Legbreaker]

And the average 9mm pistol does 1D6 also... Doesn't that make a punch somewhat overpowered?

[Targan]

Other than coup-de-gras type situations, can a single shot from a 9mm actually kill you in any of the original 3 versions of T2K?

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by Targan

Other than coup-de-gras type situations, can a single shot from a 9mm actually kill you in any of the original 3 versions of T2K?

Head shots will get close, and can kill weaker NPCs.

[Targan]

Hmm. I'm well familiar with 1st ed, it's the others I was hazy on. 9mm not being able to kill average PCs with a headshot = poxy system. NPCs being innately easier to kill than PCs = poxy system. IMHO.

[Legbreaker]

In 2.x, anyone with a Constitution stat of 3 or less and it's possible. Head hit capacity is 2x Con. From memory, 1.0 isn't much different.

An Aimed shot which hits either the head or chest has a chance of an instant kill (roll a D10 - dead on equal or less than the number of damage dice of the bullet. ie 1-4 for a 7.62N, 1 for 9mmP).

2.2 also allows for double damage on an Outstanding Success on the hit roll.

While not personally familiar on an intimate level with 9mmP, I've heard anecdotes of VC barely staggering from a 9mmP burst at 50 metres. The follow up double tap 7.62N on the other hand....

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

In 2.x, anyone with a Constitution stat of 3 or less and it's possible. Head hit capacity is 2x Con. From memory, 1.0 isn't much different.

An Aimed shot which hits either the head or chest has a chance of an instant kill (roll a D10 - dead on equal or less than the number of damage dice of the bullet. ie 1-4 for a 7.62N, 1 for 9mmP).

2.2 also allows for double damage on an Outstanding Success on the hit roll.

Those rules are a bit more reasonable. Thanks for the explanation.

[Legbreaker]

It's worth noting that even a scratch can be potentially fatal - the injured party looses at least their next action, and depending on which version you're using may not be able to act for upwards of 30 seconds in which time their enemy may act with abandon. It only takes a little concussion damage to keep them down too while the attacker moves up for the killing shot/blow.

Therefore it's damn good practice for a PC with a high initiative to carry a grenade launcher, even if they don't have a very good (or even any) skill. Near enough is good enough....

And lets not even talk about infections!

[B.T.]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

And the average 9mm pistol does 1D6 also... Doesn't that make a punch somewhat overpowered?

You're right! That's one of the reasons, why I'm not happy with the melee damages. The majority of PCs and detailed NPCs did not spent points to increase "Unarmed Melee". So the most PCs do a damage of "1". That's a bit weak. Maybe something like 1d6 / 2 or 1d3 damage, reducing the "Unarmed Combat Damage" and apply as a bonus?
I mean, an experienced martial artist can (under certain circumstances) break an opponents arm!

How do you handle this, Leg? (Now, off course, if anyone else want's to give his 2 cents, you're welcome!)

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by B.T.

How do you handle this, Leg? (Now, off course, if anyone else want's to give his 2 cents, you're welcome!)

I shoot the enemy. Eliminate the problem entirely!

My theory is the army issues you with a rifle so you can shoot the enemy way over there.
They issue you a bayonet so you can stab the enemy way over there.
Why let them get close enough for a punch?

[B.T.]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

My theory is the army issues you with a rifle so you can shoot the enemy way over there.
They issue you a bayonet so you can stab the enemy way over there.
Why let them get close enough for a punch?

So it is written, so it shall be done ...

[Legbreaker]

One other option my be to treat unarmed damage as mostly Stun. Perhaps 1/4 is permanent (bruising, cracked ribs, etc) and the rest "disappears" after a suitable period?

[weswood]

The rules system I prefer (Top Secret/SI) has 3 types of damage: constitutition damage, for things like poison, bruise damage for things like punchinng, kicking and blunt weapons and wound damage for penetrating and slicing damage.

For example, a typical character has 5 hit points per area- head, left or right chest, abdomen, left/right arm, left/right hand and left/right leg. A baseball bat does 1-6 points wound damage, a 9mmP does 1-6 wound damage.

Hand to hand is determined by the character's skill check roll. The system uses percentile die to determine success/fail. It also gives a hit location and damage for weaponless hand to hand. If a character rolls a 40% in boxing, the "tens" die gives the amount of bruise damage (4 points) in the head (area 0= head). 4 points is lower than the character's total for that area, so he keeps on fighting. If it was 5 or more bruise points to the head, it would be a KO. At twice the amount of hit points, he'd have a cracked skull.

Wound damage supercedes bruise damage. If the character above got out of the fight with 4 bruise points to the head (call it a black eye for fun) and gets into a firefight later and takes 3 points from a firearm (wound damage) the character would have 3 points wound damage and 1 point bruise damage.

Maybe that would help, keep seperate track of wound and bruise damage for the T2K character. Maybe come up with a weaponless combat system with better damage potential.

[WallShadow]

<Delicately avoiding the entire "butt crack problems" and "violating plumbers' things(?!?)" discussion>

Lots of people who were members of the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) were also in the military _and_ stationed in Europe in the mid to late 1990's. I'm sure their melee skills would give them an advantage with baton/bat/axe/sword/club/spear, and they could teach shield-wall tactics to local ORMO troops for riot control-- mighty handy in the Great Free City of Krackow when the KGB-incited mob rises up in revolt.

I can also see some of them flying their heraldic devices to catch the attention of other SCAdians they might encounter. ("Holy crap! That's Sir Manfred's device painted on that BMP! Hold your fire!") Of course what the locals might think of this, who could tell?