On this day 25 years ago (Commentary Thread)

[Targan]

Originally Posted by chico20854

January 9, 1997... while the Boat Troop of NZSAS made a more leisurely exit from the Cam Ranh region aboard the late Admiral Selevinski’s barge, enjoying the liquor and company aboard.

If it was going to be anybody doing this is would be the Kiwis and the Aussies

[chico20854]

Originally Posted by Targan

If it was going to be anybody doing this is would be the Kiwis and the Aussies

We are all aware (and fully supportive) of folks having a good time!

[Homer]

I’ve always chalked a large part of the damage in canon up to two things: first, adventuring after even a counterforce exchange would suck (fallout over the Midwest, the old NW, and mid Atlantic) and would really just be a struggle for calories; second, much of the knowledge we have today was unavailable or even protected in the 80s (the Greenbriar gets no mention and NSA was still “no such agency”). With that in mind, most of the plot devices never fazed me (seminoles overrunning SE Florida, the drought, and naval attrition notwithstanding).

Really cool to see you putting meat in the bones of canon. Keep it up!

[Homer]

Interesting you mentioned the 25th ID. A friend of mine was assigned to the “25th Dimension” during a simulation exercise in Korea. He stated the sobering moment came when the division was “ineffective” roughly 5 days after commitment against a heavy model NK force using just conventional weapons, no NBC.

[cawest]

i could see that the USS Ranger's air wing now gets F-8s, Harriers, A4, A7, Vikings. i don't seem them bring out Demons, but A-1's with sidewinder for CAP. these craft would make this a good sub and raider hunter.

[Ursus Maior]

Sidewinders against submarines? Or do I get that wrong and you mean sidewinders for self-defense and other stuff for ASW/ASuW?

[cawest]

Originally Posted by Ursus Maior

Sidewinders against submarines? Or do I get that wrong and you mean sidewinders for self-defense and other stuff for ASW/ASuW?

sidewinders (and cannon) would be used for fleet defense and to cut down any bombers, helos, or "other" light aircraft that might be away from the "main" battle areas.

[chico20854]

Originally Posted by cawest

i could see that the USS Ranger's air wing now gets F-8s, Harriers, A4, A7, Vikings. i don't seem them bring out Demons, but A-1's with sidewinder for CAP. these craft would make this a good sub and raider hunter.

The next aircraft to come out of storage (less those sold to Iran and China in 1996) are A-7Es and F-4Ss, which were retired from USN service in the early 90s, along with A-4s of various models, which had remained in limited service (and were in USMC reserve squadrons). There were still older sailors, aircrew and reservists that were familiar with them. I have a plan for the older AV-8C Harriers, don't worry! The S-3 Viking remain in front line service, there are too many Soviet subs about to send them ashore!

By the summer, half of Strike Fleet Atlantic fighter and light attack squadrons are flying F-4s and A-7s. The A-12 never gets produced in sufficient numbers to do anything other than maintain Enterprise's all weather attack squadrons at about proper strength.

[chico20854]

January 11, 1997

photo
NATO minelaying of the GIUK gap begins.

unofficially:

The French government files a formal protest and a request to a German court to force compliance with commercial charter contract on the German-flagged cargo ship Ariana, which France claims has an obligation to continue to transport Ariane rockets to the launch facility in French Guiana. The ship is instead en-route to the US to load military equipment. (The French government fails to note that it is intent on lofting a electronic intelligence satellite with the rocket, hence the demand for quick action.)

Texas Rangers report that they have recovered a Soviet AT-4 missile transport tube near location of prior day's explosion at the ATAMS missile assembly plant outside El Paso.

The tug boat Janet Pommet is hijacked by unknown agents and sunk in San Diego harbor channel, partially blocking it.

RAF Mildenhall is hit by Soviet cruise missiles once again launched over the Baltic Sea and overflying southern Sweden; The Commanding Generals, USAF Europe and 3rd Air Force and some of their staff are killed. A C-23 light transport and two EC-135H Command & Control aircraft are destroyed.

NATO launches Operation Thundercloud - coordinated pre-dawn landings by the British 6th Airmobile Brigade, East German 40th Air Assault Brigade and the West German 26th Luftlande Brigade to seize bridgeheads over the Oder and Niesse Rivers, opposite Frankfurt-on-Oder, Gubin and Gorlitz, taking advantage of the disarray within the Polish Army.

Canadian and British fishing boats, B-52s from the 42nd Bomb Wing and USCG C-130s are initially involved in the minelaying effort in the North Atlantic, intending to cut off the resupply routes that SACLANT suspects are being used to support Soviet commerce raiders.

A bus full of Turkish Cyptiot construction workers in Limassol, Cyprus is stopped and the passengers dragged off and beaten by a Greek mob. The subsequent rioting expands across the island.

The advance party of the 278rd Armored Cavalry Regiment is flown to Amsterdam-Schipol airport to arrange for reception of the rest of the regiment.

A shipowner reports loss of communications with the MV Diamond Cherry, carrying grain from Port Elizabeth, South Africa to Rimini, Italy.

[chico20854]

Originally Posted by Homer

Interesting you mentioned the 25th ID. A friend of mine was assigned to the “25th Dimension” during an simulation exercise in Korea. He stated the sobering moment came when the division was “ineffective” roughly 5 days after commitment against a heavy model NK force using just conventional weapons, no NBC.

I was reading through some declassified British studies from the early 70s, and they discussed that the only practical way to delay the collapse of defense and start of tactical nuclear war on the Central Front in Germany was to set the initial defense line another 100km to the west, hoping that obstacles and roads flooded with West German refugees would delay advancing Soviet forces. That would buy an extra day or two, bringing the total length of the conventional phase of the war to...

2-4 days.

[Homer]

In v1 canon, INF wasn’t written in. Do you see the GLCM force dispersing from Molesworth and Greenham after the strike on Mildenhall? Or would they stay I the GAMA? I’d assume the hardened 3d Air Force Command Post was hit unless it was a fluke and they caught them on the ramp by SILK PURSE. Or maybe they got really lucky and hit the Galaxy Club at lunch…

[chico20854]

Originally Posted by Homer

In v1 canon, INF wasn’t written in. Do you see the GLCM force dispersing from Molesworth and Greenham after the strike on Mildenhall? Or would they stay I the GAMA?

I had the GLCM (and Pershing II!) force dispersing back in October, when the balloon went up in Germany, even though at the time it was "strictly an internal German matter" (that also involved implementing REFORGER and a general mobiliation). The two biggest GLCM issues were the wings stationed in Belgium and Italy, which relocated to western Germany and Gibraltar, respectively.

[Matt Wiser]

A note on carrier air wings: The A-6s would still be available: some from AMARC, and if Grumman had brains-and they usually did-they may have been building some for the Chinese. If the latter is the case, then those Intruders not delivered are going to the Navy or Marines, and the aircraft remain in production at Calverton (Long Island).

What's being produced at the Fairchild-Republic plants (the Farmingdale, Long Island one used to build F-105s and was involved with A-10 production, while the one at Hagerstown, MD also built A-10s)?

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

A note on carrier air wings: The A-6s would still be available: some from AMARC, and if Grumman had brains-and they usually did-they may have been building some for the Chinese. If the latter is the case, then those Intruders not delivered are going to the Navy or Marines, and the aircraft remain in production at Calverton (Long Island).

What's being produced at the Fairchild-Republic plants (the Farmingdale, Long Island one used to build F-105s and was involved with A-10 production, while the one at Hagerstown, MD also built A-10s)?

Aircraft production was ended in Hagerstown, Maryland in 1984. The plants were still there but the question would be how long to set up the tooling again (which was in storage) and get back in production?