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  #1  
Old 10-23-2008, 03:00 AM
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Default T2K Fortification

I have no time now today but I start this just as a beginning. I'll put more posts ASAP.

I disagreed with prisons as efficient defensive positions but I found the point very interesting. What about other fortifications? France has plenty and I'll try to come up with exemples soon. What about other countries? Even U.S. has some (may be more that what I think) as I visited an old fort in Maine back in 2003.

Marc, as I know, many cities and towns of Spain retain some kind of fortification. Can you give some exemples of this?

Many cities and towns in Portugal will have some strong defense. In fact, the portuguese army still run all the coastal forts that you have in the country, often renting them to private business.

I think that most will be used again and they might make formidable strongholds. Religious buildings can also be an option: just remember Monte Cassino in Italy.

I would love to know more about this, if any of you has some kind of informations, please feel free.
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Old 10-23-2008, 04:42 AM
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Default Dubrovnik

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoender
I have no time now today but I start this just as a beginning. I'll put more posts ASAP.

I disagreed with prisons as efficient defensive positions but I found the point very interesting. What about other fortifications? France has plenty and I'll try to come up with exemples soon. What about other countries? Even U.S. has some (may be more that what I think) as I visited an old fort in Maine back in 2003.

Marc, as I know, many cities and towns of Spain retain some kind of fortification. Can you give some exemples of this?

Many cities and towns in Portugal will have some strong defense. In fact, the portuguese army still run all the coastal forts that you have in the country, often renting them to private business.

I think that most will be used again and they might make formidable strongholds. Religious buildings can also be an option: just remember Monte Cassino in Italy.

I would love to know more about this, if any of you has some kind of informations, please feel free.
My recent post sabout fortress like structures being able to repel attackers etc were largely inspired by the city of Dubrovnik who held out siege and attacks by the Jugoslav army in the early 1990s .

Now- this army was vastly superior in firepower,manpower,etc - but it seems attacking a built up area is a risky business.

It takes a concentrated effort and the willingness to take casualties to do it -meaning most t2k factions/commanders would vote a no to go for it -

imho of course
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Old 10-23-2008, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by headquarters
My recent post sabout fortress like structures being able to repel attackers etc were largely inspired by the city of Dubrovnik who held out siege and attacks by the Jugoslav army in the early 1990s .

Now- this army was vastly superior in firepower,manpower,etc - but it seems attacking a built up area is a risky business.

It takes a concentrated effort and the willingness to take casualties to do it -meaning most t2k factions/commanders would vote a no to go for it -

imho of course
Agree entirely. I would love to find some info on what cities still have some. I didn't know about Dubrovnik. That's one .
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Old 10-23-2008, 12:35 PM
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Worth remembering that CAS and massed artillery are mostly gone in 2000, so "obsolete" fortifications are once again effective.
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Old 10-23-2008, 01:31 PM
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Bona nit!!

Dubrovnik! I remember Dubrovnik as really beatiuful city, the true jewel of the dalmatian coast. I would say you that, if possible, don’t lose any future chance to visit de Croatian coast.

I was in Dubrovnik in the summer of 99, during my only two free days in my tour of duty with the Spanish Parachute Brigade (BRIPAC) in Bosnia-Herzegovina. The first day, (finally wearing civilian clothes after so much time and without any equipment!!) I went all over the wall under the summer sun, with a group of friends of “Infanteria de Marina”. A high, strong and impressive wall, conceived for the black powder age. A good example of poliorcetic in a coastal city.

As Mohoender says, walled cities were common in all the Iberian Peninsula. But the presence of a well preserved wall in the present day depends, in great part, of the development of the city. Those cities which have suffered an stagnation period preserve their walls nearly intact. Others cities, like Barcelona, have urbanized, centuries ago, spaces beyond the walls (extra-muros) and only minor fragments exists in the original city centers. From the point of view of a modern observer, it’s a shame, but, after all, it was the progress. In the Gothic cathedral square of Barcelona, an impressive medieval wall fragment can still be observed, with roman foundations and modern era modifications. A wall constructed by Romans that has known the armies of Muslims, Franks, Spanish, Catalans, Frenches, Austrians, and others...

I think that the city of Avila is, perhaps, the most important walled city in Spain. Morella is an impressive walled city, at the top of a mountain; Peñiscola, in the Mediterraean coast, were was filmed “The Cid”, with Charlton Heston ... And a lot of others. The small walled medieval village in Peratallada deserves a visit, too. Of course, the Spanish poliorcetics is strongly focused to the fight against the muslims. But internal conflicts and international wars have been important factors. Europe is Europe...

And out of Spain, for my experience, I must recommend you Dubrovnik, Carcassone and Beaune.

Here you found a link of an association of walled cities:

http://www.walledtowns.com/wtfc/map.html
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Old 10-23-2008, 06:51 PM
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A frined of mine once pointed out that enclosed shopping malls (the big ones) might make great forts. Some have their own power supplies, plenty of storage, and the fields of fire (parking lots) are already cleared!
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  #7  
Old 10-24-2008, 12:58 AM
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Default hehe..good times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc
Bona nit!!

Dubrovnik! I remember Dubrovnik as really beatiuful city, the true jewel of the dalmatian coast. I would say you that, if possible, don’t lose any future chance to visit de Croatian coast.

I was in Dubrovnik in the summer of 99, during my only two free days in my tour of duty with the Spanish Parachute Brigade (BRIPAC) in Bosnia-Herzegovina. The first day, (finally wearing civilian clothes after so much time and without any equipment!!) I went all over the wall under the summer sun, with a group of friends of “Infanteria de Marina”. A high, strong and impressive wall, conceived for the black powder age. A good example of poliorcetic in a coastal city.

As Mohoender says, walled cities were common in all the Iberian Peninsula. But the presence of a well preserved wall in the present day depends, in great part, of the development of the city. Those cities which have suffered an stagnation period preserve their walls nearly intact. Others cities, like Barcelona, have urbanized, centuries ago, spaces beyond the walls (extra-muros) and only minor fragments exists in the original city centers. From the point of view of a modern observer, it’s a shame, but, after all, it was the progress. In the Gothic cathedral square of Barcelona, an impressive medieval wall fragment can still be observed, with roman foundations and modern era modifications. A wall constructed by Romans that has known the armies of Muslims, Franks, Spanish, Catalans, Frenches, Austrians, and others...

I think that the city of Avila is, perhaps, the most important walled city in Spain. Morella is an impressive walled city, at the top of a mountain; Peñiscola, in the Mediterraean coast, were was filmed “The Cid”, with Charlton Heston ... And a lot of others. The small walled medieval village in Peratallada deserves a visit, too. Of course, the Spanish poliorcetics is strongly focused to the fight against the muslims. But internal conflicts and international wars have been important factors. Europe is Europe...

And out of Spain, for my experience, I must recommend you Dubrovnik, Carcassone and Beaune.

Here you found a link of an association of walled cities:

http://www.walledtowns.com/wtfc/map.html
The 60 hr leave is how I got see Dubrovnik too! ( SFOR I&II) .We drove down from Modrica through the mountains ( dont see how they could invade rough there ) and there it was - the most beautiful city I have seen so far . My favourite spot is rthe bar called "cold drinks" thats nestled on the cliffs outside the wall on the sea side -where th elocal bravos dive of th e30 foot cliff and sneer at us tourists that dont dare ..(hehe croats..such children).

Any ways - I agree with you -beautiful gem of the mediterranean .
and that walled cities are once again more powerful in the t2k world .

And that Europe is Europe

Norway have little in the way of fortifications,it was poor up until 50 years ago , and in the old days most were built from wood which is plentiful here.

Sad - I love fortificatons .

there are a few though -this one is my favourite :

http://www.nasjonalefestningsverk.no.../1085775838.05

but there are several other cool ones there too. ( I see they have omitted the fort in my old town..goverment bastards always trying to hold the South Province down...

And after all - what is a campaign without a good castle ,ey ?
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  #8  
Old 08-20-2020, 02:29 PM
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Default Fortifications in T2k

Castles became obsolete with the advent of effective gunpowder weapons during the Renaissance. Fortifications continued to play an important role in European warfare, from Vauban's 17th century star-shaped forts to the 20th century's Maginot Line. But as evidenced by the ignominious fate of the latter, large, fixed fortifications could be neutralized by modern firepower and mobility.

Largely as a result of shortages of combat aircraft, and large caliber shells for artillery and direct fire weapons, castles and other antique fortifications would once again become important strongholds/bases in the later days of the Twilight War. Castles would no longer be musty tourist attractions- they would regain a lot of their original importance, at least on a local level.

There a couple of castles mentioned in the original Poland modules, but Poland is plain lousy with them (there are dozens), many built by the Teutonic order. Europe is littered with medieval fortifications in various states of preservation. There are also numerous extant Vauban-style fortifications throughout Europe. On an interesting side note, that style is coming back into use today IRL.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...sses-in-africa

(During the Vietnam War, both the French and the Americans relied on similar fortifications to help them control the surrounding territory. A few American Special Forces camps were laid out Vauban-style.)

In addition to castles (Bran Castle is believed to inspired Bram Stoker's Dracula novel), Romania has fortified churches.

In T2k, castles make great bases for warlords, OPFOR, and friendly forces. Castles could serve as an effective linchpin/central hub for a cantonment. I was so inspired by images of Malbork castle that I wrote a whole adventure module around it!

I'm hoping that this thread will be the place to discuss various fortifications, from general to specific, from big to small, all over the world, that could be relevant to T2k campaigns. Has your campaign ever featured castles or other old fortifications made new again? Were your PCs lucky enough to take control of their own castle? Feel free to post relevant pics as well.
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Last edited by Raellus; 11-06-2020 at 01:27 PM.
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  #9  
Old 08-20-2020, 02:40 PM
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You may even see them make a comeback here in the US. There are a few old fortifications here in the US - Fort Monroe for instance comes to mind - that could be put back into use as well. Now depending on where the nukes hit at Norfolk that particular fort may be out of commission but there are others - Castle Williams on Governors Island in NYC for instance which in Armies of the Night is the base for the Harbor Rats.
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Old 08-20-2020, 05:39 PM
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The Castillo de San Marcos in St. Augustine would be useful. It protects the harbor, with the ocean-facing walls being 19 feet thick. As stone, it would be AV 10 or 11, but given coquina's semi-ductile nature and that it can absorb 2-4 times as much energy as sandstone, it should probably be a bit higher. There's a well in the courtyard of the fort, which is 100 feet square. The dry moat could be flooded relatively easily. Its only normal entrance is a drawbridge with a barbacan on the opposite side. The parapet is 6 feet high and three feet thick, with 64 piercings for artillery. With around 40 feet of space on top of the walls, there's plenty of room to mount stuff. There are 32 rooms within the walls of the fort.

It's a bit close to the Sea Lord's territory in Jacksonville, but against your typical marauders it would be an incredibly tough nut to crack.
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Old 08-21-2020, 12:11 AM
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There are quite a few half forgotten "fortresses" that would be available for use. A few Nike missile complexes were still relatively intact in 1997 plus quite a few bunkers at various costal sites or shutdown/abandoned military bases. Even some of the WW II Atlantic Wall fortifications might be able to be refurbished for use.
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Old 08-21-2020, 12:45 AM
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I'm having no luck finding good pictures but expedient fortifications from the Euromaiden protests in Ukraine in 2014 were really interesting. That ones I think are most interesting for T2K are the tire walls. Really just soil/sand filled tires stacked as walls.

A person height wall (filled with soil) weighs tons so you're only going to knock it down with heavy weapons or vehicles. Even a single tire thick wall will stop most small arms, fragments, and block line of sight for attackers. Tires also burn with thick black sooty smoke so if you need to cover movement or escape you just burn down your walls.

Tires are also everywhere. They don't need to be in driveable shape to be used in a wall. A junk yard or tire dump is a nice defensive wall waiting to happen. Your cool castle wall took a SMAW and has a hole in it? Fill it in with old tires and dirt, it'll take another SMAW!

Structurally they're similar enough to HESCO barriers that whole defensive perimeters and internal cordons can be built out of them.
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Old 08-21-2020, 01:04 AM
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Default Wawel Castle

Honestly, I'm not shure, if I stumbled across the following site because of a link in this forum. Nevertheless, Wawel is of some importance. They have a museum there and I think, the site gives quite some info.

https://wawel.krakow.pl/en
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Old 08-21-2020, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bash View Post
Really just soil/sand filled tires stacked as walls.
On that note.... https://www.homedit.com/earthship-ho...ecycled-tyres/
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Old 08-21-2020, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bash View Post
I'm having no luck finding good pictures but expedient fortifications from the Euromaiden protests in Ukraine in 2014 were really interesting. That ones I think are most interesting for T2K are the tire walls. Really just soil/sand filled tires stacked as walls.

<snip>.
Regarding tyres, depending on the type you use, some of the larger sizes are incredibly resistant to rifle fire even without the soil filling. Even a steel-belted tyre from the family sedan can significantly slow down various projectiles such as fragments and bullets.
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