Horsemen of the Apocalypse

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Its an average, soldiers should carry no more 32% of their total body weight or they risk becoming combat ineffective do fatigue

Never going to happen in reality. As mentioned, my webbing alone often weighed about that. Add in pack, etc and I doubt I ever came in at less that 50 kgs, and that at a time when I was only 65kgs myself!

That said, I could carry that load at a fast walk (about 8kph/5mph) pretty much all day long. Make me run more than a few paces though and I was done.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Never going to happen in reality. As mentioned, my webbing alone often weighed about that. Add in pack, etc and I doubt I ever came in at less that 50 kgs, and that at a time when I was only 65kgs myself!

That said, I could carry that load at a fast walk (about 8kph/5mph) pretty much all day long. Make me run more than a few paces though and I was done.

Is there a point here or is this just you bragging about how much you can carry? what's next? are you going to whip it out too?

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Is there a point here or is this just you bragging about how much you can carry? what's next? are you going to whip it out too?

lol

[Targan]

Don't make me whip it out. The weather's been cold lately and I won't be looking my best. I'll bet Tassie is colder at the moment, but maybe Leg's got length to spare

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Targan

Don't make me whip it out. The weather's been cold lately and I won't be looking my best. I'll bet Tassie is colder at the moment, but maybe Leg's got length to spare

LOL

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Is there a point here or is this just you bragging about how much you can carry? what's next? are you going to whip it out too?

Of course there is. Real world example of why the figures are rubbish.
I'm sure any other infantryman could say basically the same thing.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Of course there is. Real world example of why the figures are rubbish.
I'm sure any other infantryman could say basically the same thing.

In my basic, We had to carry 80lbs (or 75% of body weight if less than 80lbs) for 20 miles under time (6 hours) to graduate basic. The grunts had to do it in like 4 hours. When I was with the Mountain, we had to do 30 miles in 6 hours with "Full Ruck" every month. My combat load as a 60 gunner was 118lbs. Then you see something like this making the news and you just shake your head...

https://youtu.be/2F_3MKYiF_c

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

Then you see something like this making the news and you just shake your head...

https://youtu.be/2F_3MKYiF_c

Medics. Explains it all really. How often do they have to leave the aid post carrying much more than a first aid kit and water bottle?
Seems pretty obvious to me that "Captain" had a bit of a heart condition. Bet she recovered real quick once she dropped her pack and the cameras stopped rolling.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Medics. Explains it all really. How often do they have to leave the aid post carrying much more than a first aid kit and water bottle?
Seems pretty obvious to me that "Captain" had a bit of a heart condition. Bet she recovered real quick once she dropped her pack and the cameras stopped rolling.

YEP. Look at the guy at time index 0.31 Seconds. He looks really "beat" by the course. Looks like he's on patrol.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

While the idea that soldiers should carry no more 32% of their total body weight is a great idea, it's like the saying "No plan survives contact with the enemy." It all works in theory but practical necessity says otherwise.

I think in the 1800s when armies marched for several days to reach a battlefield, it would have been realistically achievable (and completely necessary). They would only have needed to carry fighting order and the baggage trains would carry the rest.
But from the 20th century on, I doubt infantry soldiers in most modern armies would be carrying less than 40% of their body weight. Distances to the battlefield are shorter now because transport drops you as close as possible - there is no baggage train to carry all your extra gear, you carry it all in with you.

Take even a brief look at what the British Paras did in the Falklands and you'll see that infantry units are capable of such feats. Those guys were carrying closer to 80% of their own bodyweight
Even in more modern conflicts like Afghanistan, infantry (of whatever flavour) are carrying bulk ammo and water and plenty more medical supplies than usual, plus all the commo gear and body armour - those troops are not carrying 32% or less of their own bodyweight, it'd be more like 40-50%.

Reminds me of a saying that was common in the Australia Army during the 1970s-90s...
The infantry doesn't want racehorses, it wants packhorses.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Of course there is. Real world example of why the figures are rubbish.
I'm sure any other infantryman could say basically the same thing.

I am was infantry and these figures are not. I carried huge loads of distances and guess what I was in no condition to fight when I reached the end of my route.

remember there are three loads that you see dismounted soldiers carry

Battle Load: Ammo (about 5-6 mags total 200 rounds) and food+water (one meal and two canteens) additional items could include belted ammo, grenades and maybe M-72, helmet and body armor are worn

Extended Load: Battle load with a small pack (with additional food, water, and ammo) and e-tool will also be carried I also carried a ranger blanket

Administrative Load: This is the soldier's rucksack and is not carried into battle due to its size and weight, additional food and water are carried along with sleeping gear and a spare uniform and sundries. Rucksacks are left in an assembly area with the units non-combat troops.

In game terms, PC that are dismounted will become fatigued if they carry too much as will pack animals that why we load limits

[Legbreaker]

It would seem your experience differs then.
Personally, fighting order was usually around 35 kgs (machinegunner) - I rarely carried less (perhaps 25kgs on rare occasions when acting as a rifleman). At the time I weighed 65kgs.
Marching order was a around 50-60kgs.
We almost always carried our own packs everywhere as there simply weren't the vehicles available.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

It would seem your experience differs then.
Personally, fighting order was usually around 35 kgs (machinegunner) - I rarely carried less (perhaps 25kgs on rare occasions when acting as a rifleman). At the time I weighed 65kgs.
Marching order was a around 50-60kgs.
We almost always carried our own packs everywhere as there simply weren't the vehicles available.

Same. I was just a rifleman though, so slightly less weight for me than for you.

Among Australian infantrymen, probably the most common career-ending physical problem seems to be wear-and-tear on the knees, almost certainly it seems to be from carrying those heavy loads for years and years.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Targan

Among Australian infantrymen, probably the most common career-ending physical problem seems to be wear-and-tear on the knees, almost certainly it seems to be from carrying those heavy loads for years and years.

Indeed. Knees were a major (but not only) factor in me getting out.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

I am was infantry and these figures are not. I carried huge loads of distances and guess what I was in no condition to fight when I reached the end of my route.

remember there are three loads that you see dismounted soldiers carry

Battle Load: Ammo (about 5-6 mags total 200 rounds) and food+water (one meal and two canteens) additional items could include belted ammo, grenades and maybe M-72, helmet and body armor are worn

Extended Load: Battle load with a small pack (with additional food, water, and ammo) and e-tool will also be carried I also carried a ranger blanket

Administrative Load: This is the soldier's rucksack and is not carried into battle due to its size and weight, additional food and water are carried along with sleeping gear and a spare uniform and sundries. Rucksacks are left in an assembly area with the units non-combat troops.

In game terms, PC that are dismounted will become fatigued if they carry too much as will pack animals that why we load limits

Now I have never been Infantry, but during my time in the military I was a Tanker, Combat Engineer, Combat Medic and EOD. When I was a trigger puller my battle load as you called it was 85lbs or more this only included primary weapon, ammo body armor, and a single canteen. At the time I was about 180lbs myself. We did not have what you called the Extended load, our next up load was full rucksack and between the two it was a majority of my body weight.

[rcaf_777]

My point earlier

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

My point earlier

I guess maybe I am just dense, as I am not getting your point. I do not think anyone is saying that it should not in an ideal world be that. What I think we are saying is that in the real world it is not even close to that. But your point seams to be that everyone knows this is the standard and everyone follows it? Right now it sounds like you are the only one who's experiences have followed the "recommended" limits?