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Old 08-26-2011, 05:54 AM
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Default USMC Order of Battles

I have been working on this for a while, I would like some feed back, that is why I'm posting it.
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File Type: pdf USMC Order of Battle 1996.pdf (74.4 KB, 449 views)
File Type: pdf US Navy and Marine Corps Amphibious Forces Order of Battle.pdf (30.2 KB, 337 views)
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:55 AM
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Excellent work!

Only issues that I see are with the two Raider organizations. I asked a jarhead in my office what his opinion would be and his viewpoint was that the Marines would not organize a "Raider" unit. More likely would be attachments to the Force Recon Companies themselves.

Hope this helps!
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:16 AM
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Nice work

US Orbats are too often neglected especially when going in details.
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:28 PM
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Looks good to me...well done...anything at Camp David and / or the US Naval Academy?
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Old 08-27-2011, 12:05 PM
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Outstanding! Ill be chewing on this for quite some time! Great job!

Heres some feedback you were asking for.
First, I notice youve placed additional battalions in with the MEBs, which is cool, but if theres already a MEF level established above the MEB, then the MEB command staff isnt quite as necessary, unless the MEB is going to work independently and alone. It might be easier for the MEF level to call the MEBs "Task Forces" in that case.

Second, I see youve reactivated a fourth Rifle Company and established a fifth in the Infantry Battalions (in some cases, still reading and digesting both). Marine Regiments letter their Rifle Companies all the way through the battalions;
1st Battalion
Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta Companies
2nd Battalion
Echo, Fox, Golf, Hotel Companies
3rd Battalion
India, Juliett, Kilo, Lima Companies
Adding a fifth Rifle Company would move all the letters down, making 3rd Battalion have a Kilo, Lima, Mike, November, and Oscar Company. No big deal though. this one is kind of a headache and Ive screwed it up too.

Third, the Combined Battalion is an awesome idea, but M113s and M1A2s seems..................................out of place for US Marines. LAV-25s, AAV7s and M1A1s.....or even better M60A3 fit in better with what we usually had to work with. Im thinking mostly parts and logistic support instead of practicality, which is usually the route a lot of our officers went.

And fourth, I have to disagree with my colleague that Dragon works with, forming Special Operations units in the Corps was something I thought needed to happen for quite some time. We did a lot of the MEU/SOC stuff, but when you asked officers farther up the chain on both sides, it sounded like the Corps didnt want to play nice with USSOCOM. Its turned around now, but you turning it earlier makes me smile. And I like the use of Edson's and Carlson's Raiders.
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Old 08-27-2011, 12:27 PM
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I asked the jarhead in my office about calling such formations "Raiders", as I understand this the Marines never really wanted to form Raider Battalions in WWII to begin with, it was pressure from FDR (one of his sons was with the 2nd Raider Battalion) that led to the creation. The Marine viewpoint is that every Marine is qualified to perform any combat mission and there was no need to waste resources on Raiders or Paramarines.

As 1944 rolled in, FDRs son was transferred back to the states and within a couple of months, the Raider Battalions were deactivated and the personnel transferred into the 4th Marine Division.

Of intrest is that ever since, the USMC has opposed the formation of Raider Battalions.

So where do the Force Recon Companies come from? As the Navy moved away from the UDT teams in favor of SEALs, the Marines still maintained a need for a dedicated reconnaissance element for amphibious warfare, hence the development of the Force Recon to fulfill the role.
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Old 08-27-2011, 03:57 PM
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there is no "Juliett" in the Marine Corps system its Mike company, I know I was in 3rd Battalion 3rd Marines........
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:02 PM
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Raider Battalions were not need after 1943. you dont need to recon a island with people when you fly over and bomb it every day. raids were now being done by regular rifle companys...war makes you better. also it was not that we did not want to play nice with USJSOC...they did not want to pay for us and the navy said we were a redundant unit with there seals. now the war on terror shows all can play and they needed more units then they had.. the army asked for us by name was there when it was forming...
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:49 PM
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Hay Canadian, is the Navy/Marine Corps amphibious forces list as for 1996 as well?
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAW0306 View Post
there is no "Juliett" in the Marine Corps system its Mike company, I know I was in 3rd Battalion 3rd Marines........
Yup. No Delta when I was with 1/5 and no Hotel at 2/9 either. But with the OOB here, Canadian is boosting a Rifle Battalion to five companies. And given the length of the Twilight War, I figure, hell, why not?
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Old 08-27-2011, 11:51 PM
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You had a Delta it was just the combat reserve. Same with 2/9..Juliett was banned in 1928 or so when companys went from numbers to names. no company wanted a woman name. thats what I got from the USMC historical division when stationed in the nations capital. we named a attached company Mike in 2009 when we went to IRAQ. it was a mixed reserve company...asked HQ USMC and they gave us the go ahead. it was a big hit with the vietnam guys..... after Vietnam. they canceled the 4th line company and added a weapons company to each battalion. most of the weapons were in other places...IE regimental TOW's and Mortar platoons and Battalion H&S companys for medium AT weapons.
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Old 08-28-2011, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kota1342000 View Post
...given the length of the Twilight War, I figure, hell, why not?
And given it's just a game, there's no need to give reality anything more than lip service.
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Old 08-28-2011, 02:08 PM
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Leg even if its a game should we not try to be a little bit true to things in the military?
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Old 08-28-2011, 08:33 PM
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Default Thank You

Thank you all for your input, especially all you marines out there. Here is answers to the questions you ask.

1. Yes the Navy/Marine Corps amphibious forces list is for 1996.

2. The Combined Battalion was something I happen as Marine Corps would be more involved mechanized warfare, especially in Europe and the Middle East theaters. The M113s and M1A2 were based on information I had at the time. I have since learned that all of the Marine M1A2s are all US Army Gulf War surplus, which would not be available. The M113s were used because of larger number. I agree AAV7s and M60A3 fit in better and it will be one of the corrections I will be doing.

3. The Maritime Special Purpose Force (The Raiders), the way I envisioned was the Raiders as an ad-hoc unit designed to supplement US Navy SEALs, who would deployed elsewhere.
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:11 AM
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Not a problem, mind if I use pieces of this for some 2001 ideas I have for the Pacific forces trying to rebuild?
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kota1342000 View Post
Not a problem, mind if I use pieces of this for some 2001 ideas I have for the Pacific forces trying to rebuild?
go a head, but post when your done I would like to see what you have.
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAW0306 View Post
You had a Delta it was just the combat reserve. Same with 2/9..Juliett was banned in 1928 or so when companys went from numbers to names. no company wanted a woman name. thats what I got from the USMC historical division when stationed in the nations capital. we named a attached company Mike in 2009 when we went to IRAQ. it was a mixed reserve company...asked HQ USMC and they gave us the go ahead. it was a big hit with the vietnam guys..... after Vietnam. they canceled the 4th line company and added a weapons company to each battalion. most of the weapons were in other places...IE regimental TOW's and Mortar platoons and Battalion H&S companys for medium AT weapons.
"Juliet" is the alphabet code from after WW2, before that, it would have been "Jig."

As I understand it, the US Army and Marines don't use a J Company (and neither did the British), since it's too easy to mix up I and J when written by hand. And when a battle could turn on an order scribbled in pencil on a sweat-stained message order, it seemed like a good idea.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:20 PM
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Default A Change, Maybe

I have a question that I would like some feed back on. Should the Low Altitude Air Defense Battalions be replaced with the Light Anti-Aircraft Missile Battalions, which were active in 1996. The MIM-23B Hawk; used by the Light Anti-Aircraft Missile Battalions; was phased out of U.S. Marine Corps service in 2002, replacing it with the FIM-92 Stinger; which is used by the Low Altitude Air Defense Battalions.

I think no, because I think that Marine Corps would replaced the HAWK Missile sooner than 2002 if there was a viable threat on the horizon.

Also I'm currently working on the UK/NL Landing Force (Royal Marines and Korps Mariniers unit), I will post for all interested parties.
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adm.Lee View Post
"Juliet" is the alphabet code from after WW2, before that, it would have been "Jig."

As I understand it, the US Army and Marines don't use a J Company (and neither did the British), since it's too easy to mix up I and J when written by hand. And when a battle could turn on an order scribbled in pencil on a sweat-stained message order, it seemed like a good idea.
Offhand can't think of a J Company in any Army units, but 42 Commando Royal Marines definitely has a Juliet Company.

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Originally Posted by Canadian Army View Post
Also I'm currently working on the UK/NL Landing Force (Royal Marines and Korps Mariniers unit), I will post for all interested parties.
Look forward to it...
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Army View Post
go a head, but post when your done I would like to see what you have.
Will do, the 2001 version will probably be very consolidated, and with the 5th and 6th Marine Divisions added.
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Army View Post
I have a question that I would like some feed back on. Should the Low Altitude Air Defense Battalions be replaced with the Light Anti-Aircraft Missile Battalions, which were active in 1996. The MIM-23B Hawk; used by the Light Anti-Aircraft Missile Battalions; was phased out of U.S. Marine Corps service in 2002, replacing it with the FIM-92 Stinger; which is used by the Low Altitude Air Defense Battalions.

I think no, because I think that Marine Corps would replaced the HAWK Missile sooner than 2002 if there was a viable threat on the horizon.

Also I'm currently working on the UK/NL Landing Force (Royal Marines and Korps Mariniers unit), I will post for all interested parties.
Depends on how close you want to stick to canon. The US entered the war in 1995 so it would be really doubtful that the IHAWK would be phased out, I would expect a series of fixes/mods to make it more effective, at least until Patriot was available in larger numbers.
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:39 PM
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Canadian, I found a duplication...i think.

Amphibious Squadrons 8, 9 and 10 respectively have 1/9, 2/9, and 3/9 assigned to them. But 10th MEB under III MEF also has those three battalions assigned.

No big deal, on my copy of your OOBs Im just going to reactivate the 21st Marine Regiment and place it in 10th MEB.
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Old 09-02-2011, 03:00 PM
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Default Combined Arms Units

Regarding the Combined Arms units you postulate, there are some links you may enjoy reading:
* The Combined Arms Regiment: Evolution and Relevance - Discusses proposed procurement an APC variant of the LAV family, the Bison. Also discussed an alternative, the Mechanized Amphibious Assault Regiment.
* USMC LAV Organization - See post#4.
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Old 09-20-2011, 07:39 AM
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Here is edit that I recently did for USMC Order of Battle. I have now included NATO marine units, and allied marine units as well.
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File Type: pdf NATO Amphibious Forces 1996.pdf (14.2 KB, 210 views)
File Type: pdf NATO Marine Forces 1996.pdf (35.0 KB, 215 views)
File Type: pdf Other NATO Marine Units.pdf (38.6 KB, 175 views)
File Type: pdf US Marine Forces in Korea.pdf (25.7 KB, 175 views)
File Type: pdf US Marine Forces in the Atlantic.pdf (12.6 KB, 175 views)
File Type: pdf US Marine Forces in the Pacific.pdf (18.8 KB, 135 views)
File Type: pdf US Marine Forces in the Southern Hemisphere.pdf (10.9 KB, 132 views)
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Old 09-23-2011, 11:04 AM
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Once again, excellent work. I like the addition of Marine Units of other nationalities as well.
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Old 09-25-2011, 10:04 PM
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In reference to Company J(uliet) in the US, Letter J was not used for stated reasons from as far back as civil war or before I think from reading. 3rd battalion/squadron was the MILK battalion.
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