Out of Mothballs: Antiquated Weaponry on the T2k Battlefield

[Ursus Maior]

Originally Posted by Vespers War

3. The gun's actually an EC-90 (the same as on the EE-9 Cascavel), which is a license-built Cockerill, but was unable to fire APFSDS because of the muzzle brake.

Snap-shot comment on this: The EC-90 gun, like the French 90 mm D-921, is a low-pressure gun. So APFSDS is not an option anyway. The gun doesn't have the V(0) to make this a viable projectile option. HEAT remains the only anti-tank or anti-armor option.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Ursus Maior

Snap-shot comment on this: The EC-90 gun, like the French 90 mm D-921, is a low-pressure gun. So APFSDS is not an option anyway. The gun doesn't have the V(0) to make this a viable projectile option. HEAT remains the only anti-tank or anti-armor option.

There is picture on a page I cruised into (I'll find it and edit -- but its nearly dinner for the guys right now) where there are some Brazilian officers holding an APFSDS round for an EC-90 gun. But the text of the article does describe EC-90 APFSDS as being no more effective than HEAT upon striking the target.

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldw...a2-carcara.php

[Vespers War]

APFSDS for the EC-90 was being looked at in case the vehicles went up against opponents who had been provided with ERA. Even without APFSDS being any more effective than HEAT against steel, early ERA was only effective against HEAT and not against kinetic penetrators, so a vehicle with Kontakt-1 might be immune to an EC-90 HEAT shell but get penetrated by a (on paper) weaker APFSDS shell. Brazil eventually gave up on its development, probably because of the odds of that happening went way down after the breakup of the USSR.

[Ursus Maior]

Originally Posted by Vespers War

APFSDS for the EC-90 was being looked at in case the vehicles went up against opponents who had been provided with ERA. Even without APFSDS being any more effective than HEAT against steel, early ERA was only effective against HEAT and not against kinetic penetrators, so a vehicle with Kontakt-1 might be immune to an EC-90 HEAT shell but get penetrated by a (on paper) weaker APFSDS shell. Brazil eventually gave up on its development, probably because of the odds of that happening went way down after the breakup of the USSR.

As quoted above, there was development going on, but the tank lacked the necessary configuration (muzzle break) in addition to the pure development necessary. The USSR breaking up, did not have much influence on Brazil in that regard. However, by the time the project could have concluded, Brazil was looking into buying the M41C as a replacement and procure a true MBT from an indigenous design, either Osorio or Tamoyo.

[Raellus]

A column of Russian ZIS-151 trucks, manufactured between 1948-158, has been filmed by a Ukrainian drone whilst moving towards the front line.

https://truck-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/ussr/ZIL-151.php

I wonder when we're going to start seeing Lend-Lease Studebakers.

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[Raellus]

...entered production in 1943.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=4ab6522a7c50

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[Ursus Maior]

Originally Posted by Raellus

A column of Russian ZIS-151 trucks, manufactured between 1948-158, has been filmed by a Ukrainian drone whilst moving towards the front line.

https://truck-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/ussr/ZIL-151.php

I wonder when we're going to start seeing Lend-Lease Studebakers.

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The ZiS-151 (the factory it was only renamed ZiL after Stalin's death) was also the basis for the baseline BTR-152 as well as the ZIL-485 BAV-A, a Soviet knock-off of the DUKW. The 151 was built between 1948-1958, when it was replaced by the ZiL-157, which was also used as basis for the improved BTR-152V.

The Chinese copied it as the Jiefang CA-30 though and kept on building it until 1986. Both, the original ZiS-151 and the CA-30 are still in active service, though the former only in North Korea and the latter only in Bangladesh. During the Twilight War, these would see massive service on both sides of the Soviet-Chinese theater of war and probably all across Asia and Europe.

Additionally, the Soviets could restart the production line, should they want to. Not a lot is needed.

[Raellus]

Based on the M24 Chaffee light tank first introduced in 1944, the NM-116 Panserjager was used by Norwegian forces until 1993, IRL. There's a good chance that, had the Cold War continued, it would have still been in use when the Twilight War started.

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldw...6-panserjager/

Thanks to Tegyrius for apprising me of this thing's existence. He also suggested that one or two NM-116 Panserjagers could have ended up in Poland after having been appropriated by US Marines fighting in Norway.

And the remarkable Paul M already has it stat'ed up for v2.2.

https://www.pmulcahy.com/tracked_lcv/norwegian_tlcv.htm

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[Ursus Maior]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

There is picture on a page I cruised into (I'll find it and edit -- but its nearly dinner for the guys right now) where there are some Brazilian officers holding an APFSDS round for an EC-90 gun. But the text of the article does describe EC-90 APFSDS as being no more effective than HEAT upon striking the target.

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldw...a2-carcara.php

Here is the text that explains the ammo question for the EC-90 in the article you linked. The encyclopedia generally does good work, in my personal opinion.

ontrary to common statements, the X1A2 was thus not able to fire APFSDS rounds in the configuration it used at the time. Not only were they not available at the time when the X1A2 was in service, the development of the APFSDS round was never completed by Engesa. It also did not have a muzzle brake that would support the APFSDS round. Since neither requirements were met, the X1A2 never used APFSDS in its loadout. In addition, by the time the APFSDS round could have been ready, interest had already completely shifted to the M41C and the main battle tank projects like the Osorio and Tamoyo.

The X1A2 had access to HEAT, High Explosive Squash Head (HESH), and High Explosive (HE) rounds. The HEAT round was meant for anti-armor purposes and was the X1’s anti-tank round. The HESH round was mainly meant for bunkers, walls and light vehicles, and not as ‘anti-armor’ ammunition. The HE round was used as a general purpose support round. The X1A2 also had access to a white phosphorus smoke round and a HEAT practice round.