The location of the Pope during the Twilight War

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

For those who take Challenge magazines as canon, Challenge #42 is the issue that has an article on Italy in 2300AD. The article makes various references to the Twilight War it seems very likely that Rome was nuked

from pg 25

"The Nuova Italia movement was based in Venice, the only city to escape nuclear attack. Nevertheless, Rome remained the focus for the "idea of Italy,~ and the return of central authority to a largely rebuilt Rome In 2100 represented the climax of over a century's work."

And from the same article

Pg 26

"Naturally defensible Perugia became the retreat of what was left of the papacy during World War III and has remained the papal city ever since."

Thanks for the info RB6, I'd forgotten about the contents of that article. I take Challenge Mag articles and T:2300 to be canon (unless I have very good reason to do otherwise). I'm thinking that in light of that article I should have added a fifth poll option (relocates to another site in Italy) which in hindsight I would have voted for.

[B.T.]

I have not voted, yet.

If JP II. is the pope in the Twilight war, we should take in account, that he was the Pope, that travelled the most. In Wikipedia is an article on his travels.
Some of these travels might not have the same destination as IRL! In the later half of the 90ies the Pope visited severals states in the former Eastern Bloc - I don't think this had happened in T2k. But he would have been travelling to other States/countries.
Depending on his location (Choose your destination of the Popes "tour"!) he might stay at that place, when things get dense in Europe - Brazil is not unlikely (Dragoon mentioned Brazil before!).
If the Pope is in Europe, I can imagine, he'd like to stay in Rome, but leaves for an uncertain ammount of time to get back there, if the situation is more stable.

I think, France is not a bad destination - there had been Popes residing in Avignon (I don't remember who said in in the "People of Poland"-threat, but although some of the anti-Popes spent their time in Avignon, there had also been "official" Popes in Avignon!).
Switzerland is an option, another place in Italy is another one.
Still another country come to my mind: Ireland! It has a catholic population and it is not that likely as an aim for nukes!
If the Pope sees his new residence as a place of a temporary exile, he could stay allmost anywhere!

The idea of a SpecFor team trying to capture the Pope is a nice one. Maybe I'll have a try on this, too.

Edit: It was "Adm. Lee" in No. 35 of the "People of Poland" who mentioned Avignon as being not likely. Just in case someone was asking!

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I wonder if the Vatican has a bomb/fallout shelter. My guess would be that it does but I'm not sure how one would find out for sure.

Apparently it does (I googled it...)

http://www.nytimes.com/1982/02/22/wo...r-library.html

Originally Posted by Targan

I'm thinking that in light of that article I should have added a fifth poll option (relocates to another site in Italy) which in hindsight I would have voted for.

It simply never occured to me as an option until I read the article again yesterday, but in hindsight, I, too, might have opted for it.

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Although I see the attraction of Switzerland as a destination, I don't think it would be wise during a nuclear war...

Leg, you make valid points. Whilst I opted for Switzerland in the poll, I do think it's possible that the Papal party might move to Switzerland (or elsewhere in Italy) as a short term move in the summer of 1997 when the nukes start flying and then move on sometime in 1998 to another location where they could stay for a longer term (basically the duration of the War plus a period afterwards).

I think main contenders for this long term location would be either France or Spain. I did think about Brazil, but there's a lot of petrochem industry in Brazil, so I think it would be high on the list of neutral nations to be targetted. Another possibility might be Argentina. I might be mistaken, but I seem to recall Brazil and Argentina go to war with each other at some point, so that might also have a bearing on the matter - why leave Switzerland for Argentina if Argentina is now a war zone? On the other hand, the Pope might have arrived there before that war broke out.

[Slappy]

Doing a little poking around and thinking on this this morning.

It's also not clear how long JPII would have lived in T2k. IRL he lived to 2005, but apparently he began suffering from Parkinsons Disease as early as 1991. I'm sure that the pontiff would have had the best care available in '97-'99, but I don't know that it would have been enough in its degraded state to keep an increasingly frail man in his late 70s alive.

Points to the interesting mission mentioned by Rainbow Six to bury the pope, or the intrigue surrounding the election of a new pope after the death of JPII. The intrigue in the College of Cardinals would probably make the efforts to reconstitute the US Congress look like a tea party. Possible mission here with the players helping to support or thwart one of the candidates, either with violence or by retrieving some item, document or witness to swing the decision.

My guess is the the death would actually lead to the election of several popes. The French would be mad to not have one, there would be someone in Rome claiming the title, likely one or two elsewhere in Italy/Switzerland and possibly Brazil. Anywhere you can get 3-4 cardinals together you can have an election of some sort. AlsosSeems that any Bishop with a former papal estate and 100 guys with guns who say he's the Pope has at least a passing claim to the title, at least locally.

[WallShadow]

I entertained the idea that his Holiness had been on a goodwill tour in the US when the European theatre went nuclear. The papal aircraft and a body double returned to Rome; however, the Pope's advisors had actually convinced him to stay put in the US, outside most likely target areas. He chose to set up a low-key anonymous residence at the National Shrine of Our Lady of Czestochowa in Doylestown, PA. It's located far enough from Philly and the Delaware River targets to have survived intact. Dressed as regular clergy, he helped the shrine staff organize and operate an enclave to shelter, feed, and medically treat the refugees.

Surprisingly, the enclave has had virtually no problems with raiders or marauders thus far. Then, the Swiss Guard are being assisted by assigned bodyguards from State Department's Bureau of Diplomatic Security and the odd Catholic member of the SEALs/Delta Force/etc. They patrol and overwatch a large radius from the refuge. Lots of things can blow up, breakdown, or perhaps die in their sleep far enough away and in such a convincing manner to redirect the potential attackers, helping to dissuade such riff-raff from coming too close.

(Wild rumors filter out about miraculous cures by a holy monk, and holy apparitions delivering holy vengeance against ill-intentioned interlopers.)

[Raellus]

I like your creativity WallShadow but I wonder if the Pope wouldn't stay closer to home during a potentially global crisis like the full-scale Soviet invasion of China. It seems an almost inappropriate time to leave the Vatican and go on a goodwill tour of the U.S.

On the other hand, perhaps his trip was diplomatic. I'm not sure what his goal would be, though.

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I like your creativity WallShadow but I wonder if the Pope wouldn't stay closer to home during a potentially global crisis like the full-scale Soviet invasion of China. It seems an almost inappropriate time to leave the Vatican and go on a goodwill tour of the U.S.

On the other hand, perhaps his trip was diplomatic. I'm not sure what his goal would be, though.

I agree with many of the posters here that PROBABLY JPII is the Pope, he would PROBABLY stay close to the Vatican, and the Swiss Guard would have a FAST jet ready to take His Holiness OUT OF TOWN if circumstances dictated it. (Anything I have read about the Swiss Guard, they are SWORN to die defending the Pope. But these are pragmatic men. If it looked to the Commander of the Swiss Guard that Rome was going to take a nuke in the shorts, JPII would be GONE....NOW!!!!!)

A visit to the USA would not be JPII's style, IMHO. THe man he portrayed on the world stage was a caring but very doctrinal parrish priest. If Europe is going up in flames, a Polish Pope would not leave HIS people.

(CHA-CHING)

And that's my two cents worth.

Mike

[kato13]

For what it is worth in the real world the Pope was traveling outside of Italy for about 40 days in 1997 (adding a bit to the list below to account for travel time). However 11 days of that was in Poland which probably would not happen in in any T2k time-line.

http://www.travelnotes.org/travel-wr...paul/97-98.htm


Edit
Also I can edit polls so I added "Relocates within Italy". If you want to change your existing answer to that, just post a note with what your previous selection was (so I can shift the numbers around).