A Pro's Review of 2013

[LAW0306]

Introduction
Twilight 2000 was always one of those games that I read more than I played. I spent a lot of time coming up with scenarios and survivor communities but very rarely got to play it. I played a short campaign - as a player - where I blew myself up with a grenade that bounced back down the stairs to me after a bad roll - but that was about it. The whole ‘military unit’ campaign flavour, accompanied by the embarrassingly Americanocentric viewpoint of the material made it a poor fit for the freewheeling, British RPG groups I’ve always been a part of, but I loved the setting and while not a greatly played game it holds a seat of affection for me.

(majority of the text removed at the request of the originating website)-kato13

HERE IS THE LINK

http://www.flamesrising.com/twilight-2013-rpg-review/

[kato13]

(text removed at the request of the originating website)

Score
Style 2
Substance 4
Overall 3

Review by James ‘Grim’ Desborough

-----------------------------------------------------------
Followup comments are generally positive for the game.

I find it odd that they don't say what the scores are out of

I am guessing 5 since it says that is it not below average.


Researched the reviewer and he is a published author for both WotC and Steve Jackson Games


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/se...s%20Desborough

[Twilight2000v3MM]

I always found it kinda hard to read reviews of anyhting from a person that may or may have done work for a competing company. I maybe wrong, and if I am I apologize.

I couldn't post a review of T2K13 and be unbiased.

[LAW0306]

could not fit the last stuff in so i put the link for all to read wanted to be as up front and honest as possable.

[kato13]

I figured you hit the post size limit, it is kinda annoying. I am still trying to increase it but I think it is a fundamental database/software issue I have been unable to resolve.

[Targan]

I intend to write a review of my own but have decided to playtest the game first. I'll let everyone here know when it is done.

[Mohoender]

Here I the comment I wanted to make. They are more of a critic toward what I found to be a partial review.

I agree that The T2K was Americanocentric (so to say) but that was never a true problem and enough material was available to overcome easily what some could see as a problem. Many people around here posted way enough to do that and still do.

The point about Cyberpunk is silly at best as both games have not much in common beside the general mess (and I played both). Of course it is Paranoic but as time proved, the original T2K was that as well

PDF has no problem as long as you get the proper computer (always a problem with PDF). I agree with the low amount of illustration but more would have make the book even bigger. Just a tiny little point, PDF are always expensive to print and as a matter of fact, a hard copy would be nice.

About rules the answers I just posted said it all. I haven't gone through all of them and I remain unable to comment them. By the way, after 25 years of roleplaying I have never read any rules in full. I have full respect for those who do but find them nuts in the meantime.

The comment on artwork is not that false but it is unfair. When you know how hard and expensive it is to come up with something outstanding you become more forgiving. By the way it has become a bad habit to concentrate on artwork. As a result, among some new games you have great artworks illustrating "No Games". Another point, in the former T2K, the artwork was not better and that would be a critic you can make toward T2013 (they could have improved a bit).

About writing what is said is saddly true. However, almost no book is coming out today with proper corrections made. The problem is that the editors are not doing their job anymore (that's a reader opinion) and even prize wining books are full of spelling and typing mistakes.

I agree with the figures. 10% is hard but you could have made the oposite critic on the original T2K. I agree about the Flu (a flu only is not enough). I also agree with the critic on countries role but that is their position and I never agreed to the original T2K as well. Many have said that timelines... are very personnal and I strongly agree even if I love to share and read them. By the way they are making their point and they had to make a decision.

Here would be my comments. As always they reflect a personnal position and can be widely critisized.

[pmulcahy11b]

You know, I've seen a review of the original T2K, about 20 years ago, using just about the same words and criticisms, in a Space Gamer magazine. Wonder if it's the same reviewer.

BTW, I'm looking over 2013 bit by bit as strength allows. It's surprising how quickly I get tired these days. I can do a little house-dusting and feed my guys (that's how I refer to my dogs as a group) and I'm wiped out.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

You know, I've seen a review of the original T2K, about 20 years ago, using just about the same words and criticisms, in a Space Gamer magazine. Wonder if it's the same reviewer.

BTW, I'm looking over 2013 bit by bit as strength allows. It's surprising how quickly I get tired these days. I can do a little house-dusting and feed my guys (that's how I refer to my dogs as a group) and I'm wiped out.

http://index.rpg.net/display-article...rticleid=12350

Didn't see his name mentioned in the summary.

Greg Porter considered it "A tragic waste of 18 bucks". I guess I know not to trust his reviews blindly. The 18 dollars that constituted that expenditure probably gave me more enjoyment than any other dollar I ever spent.

Hope you get your energy back soon Paul.

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by kato13

Didn't see his name mentioned in the summary.

The reviewer at Flames Rising is my age. We woulda been about ten years old when that review was published.

- C.

[JimmyRay73]

Hmm, something about that review just makes me think "I'm gonna wait and see for myself." Kinda like when people said Daniel Craig couldn't be Bond because he was blonde...

Twilight has always had its good and its bad points over the years, I'll wait to pass judgement on the new version til I can see it myself. Gimme a week or two and then I promise I'll tell y'uns what I like and don't like. I'm hoping for more on the "like" side of the chart.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by kato13

http://index.rpg.net/display-article...rticleid=12350

Didn't see his name mentioned in the summary.

Greg Porter considered it "A tragic waste of 18 bucks". I guess I know not to trust his reviews blindly. The 18 dollars that constituted that expenditure probably gave me more enjoyment than any other dollar I ever spent.

Decided to follow up on Greg Porter since the name sounded really familiar and WOW!. He wrote both Guns Guns Guns and CORPS both of which I consider to be the best in their class as far as RPGs go. I really want to see his full T2k review now since I am finding it difficult to reconcile the fact that I really respect both works.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by kato13

Decided to follow up on Greg Porter since the name sounded really familiar and WOW!. He wrote both Guns Guns Guns and CORPS both of which I consider to be the best in their class as far as RPGs go. I really want to see his full T2k review now since I am finding it difficult to reconcile the fact that I really respect both works.

The writer of the Space gamer review and the writer of review quoted by LAW are each credited with an edition of the same book.

Macho Women With Guns
1st ed by Greg Porter (1988) self-published
3rd ed (1994) BTRC
4th ed by James Desborough (2003) Mongoose Publishing

I would guess they have a similar writing style, if one chose to republish the others work. Your memory may have been better than you thought Paul.

[Grimace]

I read through the review, and the comments. Most of the comments were of the type that's so typical of the "shoot from the hip" thought patterns that permeate so many sites. People seem to be more interested in seeing themselves spout drivel than actually thinking about the meaning of their posts.

A couple of the comments did stand out, including the last one (at the moment) from Kevin O'neill. That name is SOOOO familiar, but I can't place where I've heard it before. I could have sworn he was a Twilighter from the old boards. Do any of you happen to recognize the name?

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

You know, I've seen a review of the original T2K, about 20 years ago, using just about the same words and criticisms, in a Space Gamer magazine. Wonder if it's the same reviewer.

BTW, I'm looking over 2013 bit by bit as strength allows. It's surprising how quickly I get tired these days. I can do a little house-dusting and feed my guys (that's how I refer to my dogs as a group) and I'm wiped out.

hang in there man . hope you get more strength with the new year .

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

You know, I've seen a review of the original T2K, about 20 years ago, using just about the same words and criticisms, in a Space Gamer magazine. Wonder if it's the same reviewer.

BTW, I'm looking over 2013 bit by bit as strength allows. It's surprising how quickly I get tired these days. I can do a little house-dusting and feed my guys (that's how I refer to my dogs as a group) and I'm wiped out.

I also remember a review of the original T2K in White Dwarf, (which was published by Games Workshop iirc and at the time was probably the most widely read RPG magazine in the UK) which slated the original T2K for a whole host of reasons. Reviewer was, I think, Marcus someone...Rollins, Rowland, something like that...

And echoing the good wishes to you Paul...hope you feel better soon...

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

I also remember a review of the original T2K in White Dwarf, (which was published by Games Workshop iirc and at the time was probably the most widely read RPG magazine in the UK) which slated the original T2K for a whole host of reasons. Reviewer was, I think, Marcus someone...Rollins, Rowland, something like that...

And echoing the good wishes to you Paul...hope you feel better soon...

Might have been White Dwarf. These days I'm lucky if I can remember anything for 20 minutes, let alone 20 years...

As an aside, there was this female lab tech who's come up every two days to get blood and urine samples when I was in the hospital. She was so excited the first time she came up -- she said, "It's snowing in Houston! It's snowing in Louisiana! I wish it would snow here!"

I said, "Don't you remember when it snowed here in '86?"

She said, "I was born in 1986."

God I felt old...I was a 21-year old National Guardsman in 1986...

[Jason Weiser]

Paul...you're not old...just "very experienced" (from a guy who has a sister who's a college freshman and a brother who's a sophomore in HS).

[Earthpig]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Might have been White Dwarf. These days I'm lucky if I can remember anything for 20 minutes, let alone 20 years...

As an aside, there was this female lab tech who's come up every two days to get blood and urine samples when I was in the hospital. She was so excited the first time she came up -- she said, "It's snowing in Houston! It's snowing in Louisiana! I wish it would snow here!"

I said, "Don't you remember when it snowed here in '86?"

She said, "I was born in 1986."

God I felt old...I was a 21-year old National Guardsman in 1986...

One of my good friends just retired from the National Guard.....people were the same rank as him,E-6, who weren't born on his DOR(date of Rank) ......You know it's time to get out then

P.S. Get better soon dude....It's no joy funning Airborne guys if they're hurtin'

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Earthpig

P.S. Get better soon dude....It's no joy funning Airborne guys if they're hurtin'

Personally, I'm all in favor of kicking a man when he's down -- that's the best time to do it!