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Old 04-22-2009, 12:26 AM
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Default Aren't you all slightly optimistic?

That's the question I'm asking myself when reading a fair part of the exchanges.

Everyone is talking of how great such weapon is, how nice such vehicle and how great such personnal armor. Fine but IMO, the PC's situation in T2K would be closer to that of Saddam's army than that of the US Marines.

Your favored weapon will still be there but ammo will be scarce and you'll be glad to use the AK you picked up on a dead russian soldiers some times ago.

Great, you were one of the few to get a dragon scale armor, and you loved it. Now you are looking with envy at your old fashion serg who prefered it's more simple Kevlar Vest. After two years in the dirt, without any proper care, your dragon scale has holes. No big holes but holes and that reminds you of the old dragon fairy tails that your grand ma used to read you. Each dragon always had a weak point, a hole in its armor.

Communication. Gee! That has been hell for month now. Hopefully, you have been able to put your hand on a couple of old wire field phone. They never brakes on you as did most of your radios and allow your group some distance comm when resting.

Now, just come to the vehicles. These have changed a lot. Your bradley died on you a few month ago and you simply left it there. Hopefully, you have been able to replace it by an old workhorse: an M113 that you found in a backyard. At first, it was not working but you mechanic has been able to fix it. That guy is great and, as he is of italian descent, he get a nickname: Michelangelo. You would all die for him as he is your best ticket back home. The Humvee is working almost fine especially since Michelangelo adapted a russian batery to power it. At last, you are running an old russian UAZ-469. It's ugly, you didn't like it at first but it seems that it will never die...

Of course this my GM opinion. I put plenty of different equipments in my game but the working ones are not that numerous.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:51 AM
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In a pure T2k I am optimistic about reconstruction and improvisation but not about equipment. I do feel that everyone will be armed, but ammunition will be scarce for many. Most other advanced equipment will be in various states of breaking down. (The Iranians are still flying a few F-14s fully 30 years after a parts embargo for example)

I think the dragon skin armor and the advanced shotgun questions were in reference to a Merc 2000 game. I have the armor and advanced shotguns in my game but only because it is a Morrow Project/T2k/(potentially Stargate) hybrid.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:57 AM
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Default yes and no

I think its very optimistic to believe that any army at all will keep up operations of any sort and retain a chain of command after the bombs ..

then again -acting in cohesion to improve chances of survival might be a rationale.Not to continue the war as pr pre TDM objectives , but to fight for resources and ensure personal safety /passage home etc .This would turn commanders in to warlords rather than military leaders trying to continue the policies of their goverments through military might.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoender
That's the question I'm asking myself when reading a fair part of the exchanges.

Everyone is talking of how great such weapon is, how nice such vehicle and how great such personnal armor. Fine but IMO, the PC's situation in T2K would be closer to that of Saddam's army than that of the US Marines.

Your favored weapon will still be there but ammo will be scarce and you'll be glad to use the AK you picked up on a dead russian soldiers some times ago.

Great, you were one of the few to get a dragon scale armor, and you loved it. Now you are looking with envy at your old fashion serg who prefered it's more simple Kevlar Vest. After two years in the dirt, without any proper care, your dragon scale has holes. No big holes but holes and that reminds you of the old dragon fairy tails that your grand ma used to read you. Each dragon always had a weak point, a hole in its armor.

Communication. Gee! That has been hell for month now. Hopefully, you have been able to put your hand on a couple of old wire field phone. They never brakes on you as did most of your radios and allow your group some distance comm when resting.

Now, just come to the vehicles. These have changed a lot. Your bradley died on you a few month ago and you simply left it there. Hopefully, you have been able to replace it by an old workhorse: an M113 that you found in a backyard. At first, it was not working but you mechanic has been able to fix it. That guy is great and, as he is of italian descent, he get a nickname: Michelangelo. You would all die for him as he is your best ticket back home. The Humvee is working almost fine especially since Michelangelo adapted a russian batery to power it. At last, you are running an old russian UAZ-469. It's ugly, you didn't like it at first but it seems that it will never die...

Of course this my GM opinion. I put plenty of different equipments in my game but the working ones are not that numerous.

Last edited by headquarters; 04-22-2009 at 02:11 AM.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:32 AM
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In my campaign my group have an old deuce and a half to ride around in, where armed with a mix of captured AK's and variants and a couple of civilian shotguns. They did have a couple of fancier weapons (a sniper rifle and a Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle) but the ammo for both was very rare and was hoarded for a rainy day. Comms gear was limited to a couple of generic walkie talkies with a short range. The mechanic in the group managed to jury rig a crank for recharging the batteries. Shiny kit occasionally turned up, but usually only as a plot point or reward - you can't make it all grim for the PC's after all, they need the odd reward
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoender

Great, you were one of the few to get a dragon scale armor, and you loved it. Now you are looking with envy at your old fashion serg who
... doesnt have any armour and is about to cap your arse so he can take yours! :-)
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:53 AM
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I usualy place limits on the PCs equipment, within reason of what would be available and what they can carry. Weapons, I give them a selection of basic weapons. Although sometimes I am EVIL and give them a number and I pick their weapon based on that number, same for ammo, and yes I have had some PCs have less than 30 rounds of ammo for their personal arms.

Com. eh, I love giving them com gear, with limited power, so they can get used to relying on it and then poof battery is dead when they most need it. That is always fun!

Armor, it gets used up and damaged. And the PACT forces gear is bulky, and in my games they don't always have it.

Night Vision; rare in my world.

Vehicles, eh, they get them, I preffer older stuff. But in my wolrd, the GM giveth and the GN taketh. And the more shiny new gear or the cooler kit the more a target you become. As well as the the larger and well armed are the hostiles you will encounter to make it suitably challenging.

I always like to include 1 issue where the PCs are worrying about more than any other, be it fuel, food, water, ammo something that they have no extra and what they have is short to a critical level.

And I also toss in a nice twist like giving them three 60mm mortars but only a dozen rounds and half of that is illum, which will force them to be creative. Or several belt fed machineguns but with only 50 to 100 rounds per gun with maybe 1 gun having a decent ammo load. <This is easy when you give them 1 M60E3 with the disentrigrating links, a MG 3 with non desentigrating link, and a PK MG in a totaly different caliber so you can't really swap ammo>
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:11 AM
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Ok, now I understand, I was starting to fear I was the only sadistic GM around. In fact you are only advertising around here: "Look at the picture, isn't it nice to take a small walking trip with us?". Then, when your PCs are ready, it doesn't look exactly as it appeared : "Of course you can have that nice gun you always wanted, there is just a slight problem. The next available one is in the hand of a Cossack warlord in the middle of Siberia, protected by a full cavalry corps of elite horsemen and a few dozen tanks".
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:20 AM
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My players complain that I only use my equipment lists to show them things they can't have, find or afford
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK
My players complain that I only use my equipment lists to show them things they can't have, find or afford
IMO you are a good GM (player's opinion).
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoender
IMO you are a good GM (player's opinion).
I'm going to print that off and show it to them
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoender
Ok, now I understand, I was starting to fear I was the only sadistic GM around. In fact you are only advertising around here: "Look at the picture, isn't it nice to take a small walking trip with us?". Then, when your PCs are ready, it doesn't look exactly as it appeared : "Of course you can have that nice gun you always wanted, there is just a slight problem. The next available one is in the hand of a Cossack warlord in the middle of Siberia, protected by a full cavalry corps of elite horsemen and a few dozen tanks".

Well, my idea is there is a cost to what they want. Sure you can have the .44 Automag but you get 1 magazine and 6 rounds.....have fun! Oh yeah the enemy is a Catagory C unit and has 6 T-34s and they are hunting you. Have a nice day

Like, I have thought about giving the PCs a cool toy but, they need to fight to get the items needed to make it work, fuel, ammo or items to trade to the folks who have the item needed to make their cool toy function.

And of course I still pat myself on the back for giving the PCs a large supply of M1 Garands and letting them think they had a few cases of 30-06 ammo, but when they opened it, it turned out to be 7.62. No one bothered to think they could trade the locals for 30-06 since it was the most common caliber in the region and their MGs used 7.62, hehehe I laughed at that one though, built up their hopes and then dashed them on the rocks with a real life snafu.

And that I think is a key to good GMing, adding comical but real foul ups due to administrative error. And of course a lack of checking to confirm on the part of the PCs.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:45 PM
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I don't have a game running, but if I can ever get together enough players, I plan on starting the game with the characters fleeing on foot from a Soviet ambush. Thier issue equipment will be weapon, less than 200 rounds ammo, and 3 MREs. They can have more stuff if they can afford it and carry it, and I've got my own start up cash generating system. For example, an E-5 could end up with about $4,000 max.

Also, in my world, vehicles won't run on straight alcohol, it's got to be mixed with at least 50% gas. Diesel engines can run on vegetable oil though.
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Old 04-23-2009, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK
My players complain that I only use my equipment lists to show them things they can't have, find or afford
LOL, awesome.

In my game, the PCs have amassed a large bit of material wealth. I try to limit the enemy to bare essentials, but even with that, every time they win a battle there always seems to be a crapload of gear. They are like vultures too, and take absolutely everything.
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:22 AM
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My group got like that, and then complained how much paperwork they had keeping track of it! You just can't win sometimes
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK
My group got like that, and then complained how much paperwork they had keeping track of it! You just can't win sometimes
"They"

I wish. My game is online play by post. I have to do it all (or rely on Legbreaker to help me out).
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:41 AM
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I do miss my face to face sessions now I'm living in the country. Used to be the 7 of us every Tuesday night, now we only manage to get together every 3 or 4 months
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Old 04-23-2009, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusilier
I wish. My game is online play by post. I have to do it all (or rely on Legbreaker to help me out).
And I don't mind lending a hand with the admin either.

Yes, call me mad, but I actually like paperwork...
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Old 04-23-2009, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legbreaker
And I don't mind lending a hand with the admin either.

Yes, call me mad, but I actually like paperwork...

Okay,

"YOU''RE MAD!!!!!!!"

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Old 04-23-2009, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK
My group got like that, and then complained how much paperwork they had keeping track of it! You just can't win sometimes
My campaign has generated vast reams of paperwork. The PCs in my campaign accumulate vast amounts of loot too. In NYC during the Armies of the Night part of the campaign Major Po wanted to reduce the population on Manhatten Island so he had a strict policy of trading guns to the locals in return for their food. Yes, he is a worry.
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Old 04-26-2009, 06:23 PM
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I know you can make your own body armor from old tires with the steel/kevlar belts in the treads although it will be kind of heavy and the stench in the summer would be horrible from the tires themselves plus the sweat.

Chuck M.
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Old 04-27-2009, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK
I do miss my face to face sessions now I'm living in the country. Used to be the 7 of us every Tuesday night, now we only manage to get together every 3 or 4 months
Still not bad we are down to once every 2 to 3 years.
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Old 04-27-2009, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoender
Still not bad we are down to once every 2 to 3 years.
There are always online games.

Besides myself, at least 2 other members of this board I know of run them.
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Old 04-27-2009, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
I know you can make your own body armor from old tires with the steel/kevlar belts in the treads although it will be kind of heavy and the stench in the summer would be horrible from the tires themselves plus the sweat.

Chuck M.
here we are talking about the real michelin man... hehe...
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Old 04-27-2009, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusilier
There are always online games.

Besides myself, at least 2 other members of this board I know of run them.
Actually that's what we might be starting soon but as it was said: something is missing. Probably the sharing of beers, the junk food, and some tension (beers being the most important).
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