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  #31  
Old 10-14-2012, 10:32 AM
HorseSoldier HorseSoldier is offline
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Opium poppies are cultivated by gardeners for the flowers, though. They'd tend to be out there, being grown, by groups where someone -- avid gardner, medical professionals, pharmacists, well-read junky -- knew enough to identify the seeds for the proper species and get cultivation online. The poppies themselves aren't hard too demanding once you get the seeds in the ground, and very hardy (they grow like weeds in Afghanistan, making me believe you could probably also grow them on the face of the moon . . .)

How much processing could be done with resulting opium would be limited by both expertise and available chemicals. Opium itself and Laudanum are easy enough that they'd be very common. Morphine and heroin aren't super complicated -- they are, after all, produced in bulk in clandestine labs in A'stan, SE Asia, and Mexico every day. However, I don't know how much personal expertise or written references are floating around in the mid-90's in the US or Europe, especially after the nukes fly.

No ideas on pricing, but I'd think availability would be something like:

Marijuana V/V or C/C
Hashish C/C or S/S
Opium, Laudanum S/S or R/R
Processed Morphine or Heroin/Diamorphine R/R

Of course it is entirely possible that in various locations some group would have a monopoly on some of the above (poppies more than marijuana, I'd think, as well as on production of the complicated derivatives), which would effect price, availability, and possibly provide gaming ideas. I could see New America as part of their survivalist prep thing making sure cells had access to opium poppy seeds and the know how to use it to make both medical grade morphine and recreational heroin, for instance (the better to control the restive non-white masses and all that).

Coca isn't grown anywhere outside the Andes, I don't think, and unlike opium poppies, possession of coca bushes in Europe and the US is a criminal offense. I could see some very limited continued importation to the US after the nukes (i.e. if you're going to risk trade all the way from northern South America to CONUS, it's only going to be for goods worth their weight in gold), but availability would tend to be -/- with acquisition being specific to some sort of gaming scenario.

Alternately, some New America cells could also be growing and processing coca as part of the same keep the masses high and subordinate plan. I could see them, as presented in the T2K universe, having sufficient connections and protection from politically powerful patrons to manage importation of coca bushes and their covert cultivation in CONUS. (Hell, maybe New America and it's secretive patrons in the US government are the reality behind the "CIA started the crack epidemic" meme from back in the 80s -- and New America being involved in the drug trade might help explain their funding -- all things PCs might learn along the way.)

The more processed drugs along the lines of LSD, PCP, Meth or other forms of amphetamines, synthetic opioids, etc., are probably a thing of the past entirely by 2000, unless somebody managed to stockpile chemical precursors and such in mass quantities. Which might not be too implausible -- in the post-TDM chaos, a group of bikers or somesuch could have been doing focused raids and thefts to acquire mass quantities of sudafed and other necessary chemicals. While not commonplace, it's another potential gaming storyline -- a large enough group of bikers to carve out some stable enclave and using continued access to crystal meth both as a super high end trade good.
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  #32  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:30 PM
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Over in the "Drugs in t2k" thread I started many moons ago, it was posited that, at least in the CONUS, there'd be a healthy amount of stuff in police evidence lockers and warehouses. Now, of course, by late 2000 early 2001 when the troops begin to come home I'd wager most of that stuff is gone, and all that's easily accessible is pot.

edit: Here we go -

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3119

turns out there's a LOT of "Drugs in T2k" threads...! HMM...
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  #33  
Old 10-14-2012, 07:20 PM
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Perhaps some thread merging is in order? Any objections?
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  #34  
Old 10-14-2012, 09:18 PM
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Perhaps some thread merging is in order? Any objections?
Not from me. A pharmaceuticals megathread might help prospective GMs find out what medicines they might get in the ol' Howling Wilderness (be it back home or in Europe).
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  #35  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:34 PM
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i agree merging is in order(and please put it in the resource map)
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  #36  
Old 10-15-2012, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by WallShadow View Post
IIRC, ergot poisoning also tends to make extremities (fingers, toes, ears, noses, and other dangle-y bits that are near and dear to our hearts) lose circulation and fall off. This is not a side-effect you'd be wanting to deal with just for any theraputic hallucinatory effects of the fungus, unless you just don't care what happens to the person you'll be freaking out.

As for cannabis leaves, they're just one side benefit of growing hemp! Hemp was grown throughout Colonial America (northwest of Lancaster, PA, is a township called "East Hempfield") for use in cordage (hemp ropes and cables were preferred for ships' rigging) and canvas (again, preferred for sails). Since the petrochemical and synthetic fiber industries are going to be long in coming back, I'd imagine that somebody, probably one of the surviving students of nature and organic farming, decided that hemp would be a good crop to bring forth.

Opium poppies may be a little more problematic; I not sure if the seed heads of normal domesticated (Eschscholzia Californica. California Poppies; Papaver Paeoniflorum; Papaver Laciniatum) poppy heads contain anywhere nearly enough sap as the Opium Poppy (Papaver Somniferum) to make a decent production run.
Ergot is nasty stuff. While it does cause hallucinations eventually, it's because the brain is being bled. Yes it does cause the blood flow to extremeties to be blocked. During the Crimean War the Russian forces lost a sizeable percent of their cavalry horses and men due to ergot poisoning from contaminated rye. It was one of the reasons we never grew the stuff on the farm. It can affect other grasses too, but rye was the worst of the commercial grains affected. Ergot looks like rat turds in the grain. I have seen some samples where there were more ergot than rye kernals. It can and is sold to companies for pharacutical use as blood thinners and RAT POISON. You'd have to be stupid.. oh wait we are talking about dopers here right... to take it voluntarily.

As for hemp, there are TWO stains, European and Chinese (Oriental). The THC is highest in the Oriental and is the 'drug' variety. European is much lowerin THC and is the basis for 'Industrial' hemp that is making a comeback in the US. You'd have to smoke one heck of a lot of it in short order to get a mild buzz from what I've read. You still need a special permit to grow it, and the major pest of the fields are two legged idots that don't believe the signs that say it is not the type that makes you high.

Just my two cents.
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  #37  
Old 10-15-2012, 09:39 AM
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Yeah -- I read about a research farm in the UK that was growing acres and acres of low-THC content hemp. The first year they were in operation there was a major problem with fence jumpers trespassing and harvesting the "weed" they were growing. The second year and thereafter, not so much -- any locals who were excited about the sight of acres and acres of hemp having learned their lesson the first year.
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  #38  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:38 PM
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Default THC boost

Out of the foggy depths of my college memories come mention of an Isomerizer--a device which concentrates the THC from low-buzz weed into better-buzz tarry blackened residue. I have no clue as to the details, but a friend's druggie housemate was a Chem major, so this was an example of homework paying off! It involved alcohol and an elevate temperature, and that's the extent of the explanation I received when inquiring about this miraculous machine. I do remember some housemates thought they were going to turn pigs ears into silk purses, but you can't turn stems and seeds into much more than they originally were. The entrepreneurs did some heavy marketing and hard-sell on the weird-looking result, and some people were stupid enough to be caught up in the sell.
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  #39  
Old 10-15-2012, 08:19 PM
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Out of the foggy depths of my college memories come mention of an Isomerizer--a device which concentrates the THC from low-buzz weed into better-buzz tarry blackened residue.
That's how you make hash oil. Ether works best in that process but, as with many similarly dodgy endeavours, many who try it end up with burns and at least a blackened work area, at worst a charcoal shell where the building used to be.
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  #40  
Old 10-17-2012, 07:31 AM
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Default Natural Remedies

We've talked about drugs, but what about basic first aid? Here are some old 1920-1950s "home remedies"..

Honey: you can spread some on a burn or smear on a wound and then lightly wrap. Its used to quickly heal and prevent infection, it causes bacteria to burn itself out by multipling too fast, or so my grand mother always claimed!

Salt: Yes pouring salt on a open wound is painful, but it will kill an infection, this one was used in the Greeks and Romans as a specific against gangrene.

Blackberries are an old specific against diarreha.

Potato Peels: case of irritated or inflamed eyes, place grated peelings on a piece of gauze and cover the affected eye.

Spider Webs can also be used to help cover a wound.
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  #41  
Old 10-17-2012, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragoon500ly View Post
We've talked about drugs, but what about basic first aid? Here are some old 1920-1950s "home remedies"..

Honey: you can spread some on a burn or smear on a wound and then lightly wrap. Its used to quickly heal and prevent infection, it causes bacteria to burn itself out by multipling too fast, or so my grand mother always claimed!

Salt: Yes pouring salt on a open wound is painful, but it will kill an infection, this one was used in the Greeks and Romans as a specific against gangrene.

Blackberries are an old specific against diarreha.

Potato Peels: case of irritated or inflamed eyes, place grated peelings on a piece of gauze and cover the affected eye.

Spider Webs can also be used to help cover a wound.
Here are more to add to the list:

Clorox Bleach (Plain, no perfumes or any thing else) will disinfect a wound.

Hydrogen Peroxide will disinfect a wound.

Salt placed on gum will help with toothache

Castor Oil will help with constipation.

Alchohol rubbed on the skin will lower fever.

Aloe plant, cut open, will help with minor burns.

Just a few more "Moldy oldies" to keep in mind when faced with TEOTWAWKI.

My $0.02

Mike
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  #42  
Old 10-17-2012, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo80 View Post
Here are more to add to the list:
Castor Oil will help with constipation.
You can also use castor oil to sterilize a wound or protect a burn.
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  #43  
Old 10-21-2012, 06:38 AM
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Came across this in FM 21-76 "Survival"

To Make Soap

Extract grease from animal fat by cutting the fat into small pieces and cooking them in a pot. Add enough water to the pot to keep the fat from sticking as it cooks. Cook the fat slowly, stirring frequently. After the fat is rendered, pou the grease into a container to harden.

Plase wood ashes in a container with a spout near the bottom. Pour water over the ashes, and in a separate container collect the liquid that drips out of the spout. This liquid is the potash or lye. Another method for obtaining the lye is to pour the slurry (the mixture of ashes and water) through a straining cloth.

In a cooking pot, mix two parts grease to one part potash. Place this mixture over a fire and boil it untils it thickens.

After the mixture (the soap) cools, you can use it in the semiliquid state directly from the pot, or you can pour it into a pan, alow it to harden and then cut it into bars for later use.
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  #44  
Old 10-21-2012, 06:47 AM
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Bites and stings

The itching and discomfort caused by by insect bites can be relieved by cold compresses, a paste of mud and ashes, the milky sap from dandelions, coconut meat or crushed leaves of garlic.

To treat a spider or scorpion bite, place dampned or chewed tobacco over the bite site and lightly bandage.

For snake bites, if no antivenom is present, then the medic should:

Remove any necrotic tissue

Watch for any signs of infection

If infection appears, keep the wound open and clean. Remove necrotic tissue as needed, if scrubbing does not remove all necrotic tissue, and the infection is getting worse, use maggot therapy (more on this later).

Use sterile cloth as a wick for continued drainage of the bite area.

Flush the wound daily with water or fresh urine, do not store urine for later use.

Use a heat pack after 24-48 hours to help prevent spread of local infection.

Keep the wound covered with a dry, sterile dressing

Have the victim drink large amounts of water until the infection is gone.

Source is FM 21-76
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  #45  
Old 10-21-2012, 06:53 AM
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Maggot Therapy

During World War One, maggots were an accepted treatment for infected wounds. However, you should be aware of the following before you decide to use maggots to eat infected tissue:

You must expose the wound to flies in order to introduce maggots. Because of their filthy habits, flies are likely to introduce other bacteria to the wound, possibly causing more complications.

Maggots will invade live, healthy tissue when the dead tissue is gone or not readily available.

You should consider maggot therapy despite its hazards when you do not have antibiotics and the wound has become severely infected, does not heal, and ordinary debridement is impossible.

To use maggot therapy, proceed as follows:

Expose the wound to flies for one day and then cover the wound.

Check daily for maggots.

Once maggots develop, keep wound covered, but check daily.

Remove all maggots once they have cleaned our all dead tissue and before they start on healthy tissue. Increased pain and bright red blood in the wound indicate that the maggots have reached healthy tissue.

Flush the wound repeatedly with sterile water or fresh urine to remove the maggots.

Check the wound every four hours for several days to ensure all maggots have been removed.

Bandage the wound and treat it as any other wound. It should heal normally.

Source is FM 21-76
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  #46  
Old 10-21-2012, 07:00 AM
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FM 21-76

Intestinal Parasites

You can avoid infestations of worms and other intestinal parasites if you take preventative measures. The most effective way to avoid intestinal parasites is:

Do not eat uncooked meat or raw vegatables (possible contaminated with raw sewage or human waste used as fertilizer). If you do become infested and lack proper medicine, try one of these home remedies. Keep in mind that these home remedies are not without danger, they work on the principal of changing the environment of the gastrointestinal tract:

Saltwater; mix 4 tablespoons of salt in 1 qt of water and Drink. DO NOT repeat this treament.

Tobacco; eat 1 to 1 1/2 cigarettes. The nicotine in the cigarette will kill or stun the worm long enogh fr your system to pass them. If the infestation is severe, repeat the treatment in 24-48 hours, BUT NOT SOONER.

Kerosene; Drink 2 tablespoons of kerosene but no more. If necessary, you can repeat this treatment in 24-48 hours, BUT NO SOONER.

Hot Peppers; peppers are effective only if they are a steady part of your diet. You can eat them raw or put them in soups or rice and meat dishes.
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  #47  
Old 10-21-2012, 07:00 AM
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For drugs in Twilight, two natural substances that would be of high value would be anything opium-based and cocaine.

Opiates are very useful for treating pain, though the problem is with the dosage, because you have to know the purity/potency of the said batch. Opiates cause, in high doses, cessation of breathing and unconsciousness, which is the thing that kills most junkies ODing on them. With potent enough stuff the guy can be out cold very quickly - I actually encountered one, while working as a paramedic, who had not even had managed to pull the needle out of the vein.

Cocaine, though mostly known for party usage by yuppies in the 80ies is a good local anesthetic, still used in nasal surgery for an instance. It does reduce the bleeding a bit as well as numbing (and it does cause excessive talkativeness and hilarity in the patient, if he is awake). It can be used to numb up the eyes as well, and pretty much anything else as well. Of course, in the Twilight timeline, the availability is not very high.

An interesting, potentially useful alternate is an aquatic centipede, found at least in the Mediterranean. While being bitten doesn't really feel that nice, the bite numbs the location bitten shortly after. I'm not completely familiar with what the said centipede secretes, but as far as I've heard, it is pretty effective.
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  #48  
Old 10-21-2012, 07:05 AM
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FM 21-76

Diarrhea

This is caused by such things as a change of water and food, drinking contaminated water, eating spoiled food, becoming fatigued and using dirty dishes. You can avoid most of these causes by practicing prentive medicine. If you get diarrhea, however, and do not have antidiarrhea medicine with you, you may find one of the following treatments is effective.

Limit your intake to fluids for 24 hours.

Drink 1 cup of a strong solution of tea every 2 hours until the diarrhea slows or stops. THe tannic acid in tea helps to control diarrhea. Tannic acid is also found in the moist inner bark of hardwood trees. Boil the inner bark for 2 hours or more to release the tannic acid. Although this solutation will have a vile taste and smell, it will stop most cases of diarrhea.

Make a solution of one handful of ground chalk, charcoal, dried bones and treated water (the solution should have the consistency of kaopectate). If you have some apple pomace or the rinds of citrus fruit, add an equal portion to the mixture to make it more effective. Take 2 tablespoons of the solution every 2 hours until the diarrhea slows down or stops.

Drink lots of liquids to replace lost fluids.
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  #49  
Old 10-21-2012, 07:17 AM
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Packing a wound with sugar can also be used to prevent infection, in places or situations in T2K where sugar is available.

I remember reading somewhere that during the American Civil War, Confederate surgeons used horse tail hairs, boiled, for suturing, since silk was blockaded. Since their use required boiling to make them pliable, they had lower infection rates than the unsterilized silk sutures of the era.
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  #50  
Old 10-22-2012, 08:54 AM
Graebarde Graebarde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragoon500ly View Post
Came across this in FM 21-76 "Survival"

To Make Soap

Extract grease from animal fat by cutting the fat into small pieces and cooking them in a pot. Add enough water to the pot to keep the fat from sticking as it cooks. Cook the fat slowly, stirring frequently. After the fat is rendered, pou the grease into a container to harden.

Plase wood ashes in a container with a spout near the bottom. Pour water over the ashes, and in a separate container collect the liquid that drips out of the spout. This liquid is the potash or lye. Another method for obtaining the lye is to pour the slurry (the mixture of ashes and water) through a straining cloth.

In a cooking pot, mix two parts grease to one part potash. Place this mixture over a fire and boil it untils it thickens.

After the mixture (the soap) cools, you can use it in the semiliquid state directly from the pot, or you can pour it into a pan, alow it to harden and then cut it into bars for later use.
Few things to remember when attempting this.
1) Do NOT use aluminum pots or utensils!!!
2) READ MORE on the subject before you need to actually do anything such as this, then practice what you have read a couple of times. This is the basic principle, but there are things to do that if not done right can cause injury. If the lye is too strong it will make a soap that is very caustic, even burning the skin.
3) It needs to be stirred almost continiously until it thickens, then put it in what ever molds you have prepared for it. Don't leave it in the pot to set up!!
4) DO NOT USE ALUMINUM!!!


Basic camp soap for doing the dishes and cleaning is easy to make by adding wood ashes to the frying pan with some water. IT makes it's own soap, though I would not care to wash my body with it, it does clean the utensils quite well. Use sand for the abrassive helps it along too.

One of my favorite books is Caveman Chemistry by Dunn. One of the projects in this book is making soap. I've attached the link to a free PDF of the book, which makes chemistry easy to read and understand for the layman. His 28 projects are also something to think of when thinking of rebuilding techology. IMO no library should be without it.

http://cavemanchemistry.com/cavedemo.pdf
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  #51  
Old 10-22-2012, 09:00 AM
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http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/...ivalManual.pdf

The link to a PDF of the Army Survival Manual.
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  #52  
Old 10-22-2012, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragoon500ly View Post
Came across this in FM 21-76 "Survival"

To Make Soap

Extract grease from animal fat by cutting the fat into small pieces and cooking them in a pot. Add enough water to the pot to keep the fat from sticking as it cooks. Cook the fat slowly, stirring frequently. After the fat is rendered, pou the grease into a container to harden.

Plase wood ashes in a container with a spout near the bottom. Pour water over the ashes, and in a separate container collect the liquid that drips out of the spout. This liquid is the potash or lye. Another method for obtaining the lye is to pour the slurry (the mixture of ashes and water) through a straining cloth.

In a cooking pot, mix two parts grease to one part potash. Place this mixture over a fire and boil it untils it thickens.

After the mixture (the soap) cools, you can use it in the semiliquid state directly from the pot, or you can pour it into a pan, alow it to harden and then cut it into bars for later use.
As someone foolish and brave enough to try to make lye soap and tallow candles (yuck!) from the basics (except for the lye--it was commercial), the best tip I got was from a butcher where we bought the 2nd batch of beef fat--he ground it all up like hamburger, so that when we rendered it, it was much easier to separate the fat from the connective tissue. This saves a lot of time in the rendering process, as you don't have particles of any size that would take longer to melt.
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  #53  
Old 10-23-2012, 06:27 PM
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Default An easy one, right under our noses

Quick-- Age-old treatment for a tropical mosquito-borne disease--and you can find it in your supermarket!
Give up?



Tonic Water. Contains Quinine. The British serving in tropical climes took to mixing it with gin to offset the terribly bitter taste, and to encourage all to partake of the necessary medicine.

So, I can see survivors running through the market desperately seeking the soft drink aisle!
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  #54  
Old 10-24-2012, 07:33 AM
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Default Question for Grae

In the discussion of making soap, you say NO Aluminum. Why not Aluminum Pots?

You repeat the warning, emphasise it, but for the life of me, I can not understand why. Please enlighten me.

My $0.02

Mike
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  #55  
Old 10-24-2012, 08:36 AM
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Lye can react with aluminum producing bad results.
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  #56  
Old 10-24-2012, 05:16 PM
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Bad results including useless soap and a ruined aluminum vessel. Two fails for the effort of one (five if you count the wastage of resources, energy, and time)
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  #57  
Old 10-25-2012, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mikeo80 View Post
In the discussion of making soap, you say NO Aluminum. Why not Aluminum Pots?

You repeat the warning, emphasise it, but for the life of me, I can not understand why. Please enlighten me.

My $0.02

Mike
As the others have stated, it's the adverse reaction of lye with aluminum. Wall's reply sums it up best.
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  #58  
Old 10-25-2012, 01:38 PM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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What's really funny about the whole homemade soap thread is that the official survival manual doesn't have the warning not to use aluminum....pity the poor GI using his messkit to make soap!
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:52 PM
Graebarde Graebarde is offline
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Originally Posted by dragoon500ly View Post
What's really funny about the whole homemade soap thread is that the official survival manual doesn't have the warning not to use aluminum....pity the poor GI using his messkit to make soap!
It was probably written and proofed by people that had NEVER made or been around the actual making of soap. If you don't know what to do, perhaps you shouldn't be writing the article? Actually I was surprised there even was a mention of making soap in the manual.
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:40 PM
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WallShadow WallShadow is offline
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Default On the other (soapy) hand...

Using Pyrex or similar dishes has its own benefits--glass/porcelain is non-reactive, it's easy to remove the soap from the vessel, and you can heat the vessel itself to start the reaction. BTW, Pyrex is one of the high-temperature glass substances many lab beakers, flasks, etc., are made of.
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