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Old 10-19-2012, 12:42 PM
Michael Lewis Michael Lewis is offline
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Default List of stuff in the Twilight universe

I thought this would be a helpful thread that gamers could use to determine the "stuff" that people would have, trade or scavenge for. We've just started Escape from Kalisz. My PC's are going to be trying to get "stuff" for themselves. I thought it would be helpful if we had a list of common/uncommon items that we could roll/look at for reference.

I thought it would be good to organize by categorizes.

Here is my suggestion

Military personal
Traders
Yeomen Farmers
Craftsmen

What do you think?

Michael
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:19 PM
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Targan Targan is offline
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I like your idea of breaking up this topic into categories, Michael. We've had many similar threads over the years but not all of them have ended up listed in the Thread Map.

The most recent similar thread is unusual treasures for scroungers/barterers to find.

Another, slightly less relevent thread example is The Value of Precious Stones

If you have a look in the Thread Map you'll see a number of threads that might contain some of the sort of information you're wanting to include in this thread, at least obliquely.

For example, Salvaging Fuel and Recovering liquids from junked vehicles.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:34 PM
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Ok, so I've just scrolled through the first 40(!) pages of thread lists and below are some more of the threads that I think might contain info useful to this discussion:

OT: Emergency Kits

War Souvenirs in the T2KU

"Cool" gear for bribes and trades

Oddball Items

Hope these help.
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:55 AM
Michael Lewis Michael Lewis is offline
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Thanks so much! Your awesome! I had no idea what key terms to search for.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:42 PM
Michael Lewis Michael Lewis is offline
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Here is a compiled list of the "stuff" from those links. I hope their helpful.


Toilet paper
CD player
Liquor
Cigarettes
Paperback book
Toothbrush/toothpaste
Razors
Bleach
Coffee
Mocha pot
Sugar
Salt
Paper notebooks
Pencils
Film
10 days tetracycline
Cute kitten
Flour
Rice
Condoms
Firewood
Boat motor
Boat
Set of wrenches
Batteries unopened
Ball-point pens
Cans of black powder
Crate of boots/shoes
Bag of underwear
Aluminum wrap
Insect repellent
12 pack of coke
Copper wire/tubing
Art supplies
Working typewriter
Bicycles
Bike tires/tubes
Glues
Jewelry
16mm projector
Sporting gear
1st edition AD&D
Cloth diapers
Dog/cat food
Rat traps
Matches
Modern broad head arrow tips
Cool sunglasses
Olympic metal
Climbing rope &6 carabineers
Fishing rod & tackle
Backpacking gear
Set of photos wife & kids in zip lock bag
Wet suit
Gortex US woodland cammo jacket
Duffle bag enemy solider:4 socks, 2 ts, 2 underwear & uniform
9 1 gal. paint cans
Can WD40
roll duct tape
Single(case)Red Cross relief packs(toothbrush/paste/razor/towel/soap/shampoo)
Power Ranger walkie-talkies(1km)
U.S Cavalry Stetson
Bolt-cutters
Board game
VHS Titanic 1997
Water purification tablets
Portable toilet
Lamp oil supplies
Can opener
Coleman fuel
Vegetable oil
Charcoal
Water containers
Propane cylinders
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  #6  
Old 10-20-2012, 01:43 PM
Michael Lewis Michael Lewis is offline
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Default Some more "stuff"

Cook stove
Thermal underwear
Hatchet/axe
Gas containers
Solar calculator
Insulated ice chest
Flashlight/lightstick
Garbage cans,Plastic
Cookware
Tarp/rope/spikes
Candles
Laundry detergent
Garden tools & supplies
Scissors & sewing supplies
Canning supplies
Knives & sharpening tools
Sleeping bags & blankets/pillows/mats
Rain gear
Shaving supplies
Hand pumps & siphons
Reading glasses
Chocolate
Woolen clothing, scarves, mittens
Peanut butter
Cots & inflatable mattress
Paraffin wax
Chewing gun/candies
Hat
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  #7  
Old 10-20-2012, 01:51 PM
Michael Lewis Michael Lewis is offline
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Default Stuff for the post apocalyptic farmer

I wonder what the Twilight 2000 farmer would have at his farm that would be considered essential? Besides weapons, fuel, farming equipment, food and clothing.


Where would you cook your food?


If you preserved food with salt, where would you get it?
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:10 PM
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raketenjagdpanzer raketenjagdpanzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Lewis View Post
I wonder what the Twilight 2000 farmer would have at his farm that would be considered essential? Besides weapons, fuel, farming equipment, food and clothing.


Where would you cook your food?
Anything will do. A fire pit covered with whatever you could scrounge from a gas grill. The gas grill itself, fired with wood or charcoal.

Quote:
If you preserved food with salt, where would you get it?
Although I myself don't know how, if you live near the sea there's all the salt you need...
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer View Post
Although I myself don't know how, if you live near the sea there's all the salt you need...
Good call. Keeping it really simple, you could make a strong brine solution by evaporating sea water down.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:38 PM
HorseSoldier HorseSoldier is offline
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I'd guess by 2000 most farms that had 20th century cooking appliances would have had to add a separate cookhouse or add on an additional room to serve that purpose. Even those lucky enough to salvage pre-gas/electric stoves and such, it's probably much easier to put them in a new room/building versus gut and redo an existing kitchen. Plus even in secure areas where farms won't be mini-villages just for mutual security, the relative inefficiency of post-nuke agriculture means farm kitchens will be feeding lots of farm hands and workers.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:51 PM
HorseSoldier HorseSoldier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targan View Post
Good call. Keeping it really simple, you could make a strong brine solution by evaporating sea water down.
I'm sure there are lots of methods for low-tech extraction of salt from sea water. The only one I can recall from college anthropology and archeology classes was used in Mesoamerica and simply consisted of putting ceramic bowls of sea water near fires or nested down in the coals to evaporate out the water. (Places with low humidity and lots of sunlight you could skip the fire.) Probably not the most fuel efficient method, where that is an issue, requires some full time labor, and has at least as big a signature as cooking alcohol fuel if stealth is an issue -- but it's caveman simple. Unfortunately, I also have no clue as to yield per unit of volume -- admittedly, most gaming situations won't hinge on how many grams of salt can be had from a liter of sea water, but it would be nice to have a reasonable feel for scale.
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:12 AM
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My mum's husband owns a salt field here in Australia so, following a short phone call, I now know quite a lot more about salt production!

Apparently the majority of large scale salt production around the world involves mining rock salt. Australia and Mexico are unusual in producing nearly all their salt from salt fields, where seawater is let into wide, flat salt pans and evaporated off.

Around 2.5% of seawater is salts. Around 60% of those salts is sodium chloride, the salt you want for cooking. If you evaporate the seawater in bowls or pans or whatever (using sunlight or heating it over a fire, it doesn't matter which) you'll easily get useable salt but it will be bitter because of the other, non-sodium chloride salts in it. I doubt such poorly refined, bitter salt would be as valuable a trade item as more palatable, better refined salt.

There are various methods that can be used (by those with the knowledge) to re-dissolve and re-evaporate out the salt so that you end up with purer sodium chloride. One low-tech method described to me is used on the island of Bali and involves leaving a bundle of sticks in an evaporating bowl of seawater. The salt crystals grow up the lengths of the sticks, and are then re-dissolved in fresh water and the process repeated to purify the salt.
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targan View Post
---SNIP---

Around 2.5% of seawater is salts. Around 60% of those salts is sodium chloride, the salt you want for cooking. If you evaporate the seawater in bowls or pans or whatever (using sunlight or heating it over a fire, it doesn't matter which) you'll easily get useable salt but it will be bitter because of the other, non-sodium chloride salts in it. I doubt such poorly refined, bitter salt would be as valuable a trade item as more palatable, better refined salt.

There are various methods that can be used (by those with the knowledge) to re-dissolve and re-evaporate out the salt so that you end up with purer sodium chloride. One low-tech method described to me is used on the island of Bali and involves leaving a bundle of sticks in an evaporating bowl of seawater. The salt crystals grow up the lengths of the sticks, and are then re-dissolved in fresh water and the process repeated to purify the salt.
1. Considering the additional magnesium, calcium, and potassium content of the sea salt, I'd be loudly touting those health/nutrition facts to outsell the "merely salty" white salt (use "white bread vs. whole grain bread" analogy to push the sale at MUCH higher prices--all the traffic will bear!). Oddly enough, and counter-intuitively to boot, sea salt's Iodine content is apparently generally a trace amount, so you'd have to stretch the truth to use that as a selling point.

2. As to the bundle of sticks technique, I wonder if a suspension of strings in a supersaturated seawater solution would make RockSalt "candy"?
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:19 AM
Graebarde Graebarde is offline
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Down around Krakow IIRC is a massive salt mine. However salt is ONE of the items the farmer will need: preserve food, process hides to leather, etc. Sea salt is the easiest and one of the old methods of obtaining salt which has been pointed out.

If sea water is ~2 % concentration, a liter of water ~ 1 kg would/should yield ~ 20 grams of salt. While that does not seem like a lot, with a 15 liter pot, you would get ~ 300 grams. Perhaps with just one pot, you would be getting 4 batches boiled down a day? That's giving you ~ 1.2 KG/day. Now since your by the sea anyways, you might be adding fish to the larder while you tend your salt boiling. If you use hardwood for the fire, you also are producing woodash, which is saved for making lye-- soap making, hide processing, etc. When you look at something, look outside the box.

Now if your doing the commercial boil, the same would apply only multiply by the batches...
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:28 AM
Graebarde Graebarde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HorseSoldier View Post
I'd guess by 2000 most farms that had 20th century cooking appliances would have had to add a separate cookhouse or add on an additional room to serve that purpose. Even those lucky enough to salvage pre-gas/electric stoves and such, it's probably much easier to put them in a new room/building versus gut and redo an existing kitchen. Plus even in secure areas where farms won't be mini-villages just for mutual security, the relative inefficiency of post-nuke agriculture means farm kitchens will be feeding lots of farm hands and workers.
ARE we talking pre-fall-of-wall eastern Europe? Even western Europe, it depends on the location of the farm. Even in the 80's many of the Bavarian farms still had wood stoves in addition to the modern. A 'summer kitchen' is nice if you're using wood stoves in summer. In addition to the wood stove, think of the clay bake ovens for bread? The kitchen on traditional farms was one of the largest rooms in the home since much of the processing is done in the kitchen, hence a summer kitchen would be large enough to cut up hogs and cattle perhaps, in addition to making cheese, butter, cutting kraut, etc etc.

And yes, going to manual/muscle labor will increase the need for extra hands. The farmer becomes the defact LAND LORD again with people working for room, board, and perhaps a share of profits if there are any.

What is the easiest and most nutritional way to prepare food? Generally speaking it is in soups and stews, meaning large pots on the stove for a long time. With this method the nurtients leached into the liquid do not escape. Compliment this with sizeable protion of heavy crusty bread from the oven to provide the bulk of the calories.
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