RPG Forums

Go Back   RPG Forums > Role Playing Game Section > Twilight 2000 Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-27-2021, 03:32 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 3,840
Default Nuclear Explosion Effects

I know we have several related threads, but I thought it might be useful to have one thread dedicated to the various effects of nuclear explosions. I also have a couple of specific questions re said that I'm hoping someone has the expertise to answer for me.

Which would be more effective against an oil refinery, a ground strike or airburst?
(Guessing air burst)

Which would be more effective against oil wells, a ground strike or airburst? (Guessing ground strike)

It's been shared before, in several threads, I believe, but I think it's worth sharing the famous nukemap simulator again.

https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

Also, here's a really interesting piece about recovery time after a nuclear disaster. The parts on the rebuilding of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I think, are particularly useful to the T2k ref:

https://davidson.weizmann.ac.il/en/o...clear-disaster

-
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure module, Rook's Gambit, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, and co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-27-2021, 08:35 PM
chico20854's Avatar
chico20854 chico20854 is offline
Your Friendly 92Y20!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Washington, DC area
Posts: 1,444
Default

And here are some more sources:

The granddaddy of them all, that has all the gnarly scientific details and formulas that the nukemapper site uses is The Effects of Nuclear Weapons, 640 pages...

Some other ones are:

The Effects of Nuclear War, which was used by GDW when drafting Howling Wilderness

The Medical Implications of Nuclear War, another brick at 638 pages...

Survival of the Relocated Population of the US After a Nuclear Attack

an answer to your specific question, Raellus: Minimizing Damage to Refineries from Nuclear Attack

The Effects of a Nuclear Attack on Rail Activity Centers

And how to plan a nuclear war (!!!):

The US Nuclear War Plan: A Time for Change, which goes into details about things like the "hardness" of various targets and what it means to say "Well, X Target got nuked".

and (this is a repost from the original site, which gave me a security error), Stuart Slade's Nuclear Warfare 101

and

The US Army's FM 101-31-1, Nuclear Weapons Employment Doctrine and Procedures, which gets into the nitty-gritties of how to determine which weapon to use to achieve the objective.


Longer term I've been toying with the idea of a piece on the nuclear phase of the war... but the above documents combine to equal some seriously depressing reading.
__________________
I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory. Someday this war's gonna end...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-28-2021, 03:43 PM
rcaf_777's Avatar
rcaf_777 rcaf_777 is offline
Staff Headquarter Weinie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Petawawa Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,104
Default

The Early-Time (E1) High-Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse (HEMP) and
Its Impact on the U.S. Power Grid, Prepared for Oak Ridge National Laboratory
2010

Appendix
E1 HEMP Myths

"Cars dying: Some say that all vehicles travelling will come to a halt, with all modern vehicles damaged because of their use of modern electronics (and one movie even had a bulk, non-electronic part dying). Most likely there will be some vehicles affected, but probably just a small fraction of them (although this could create traffic jams in large cities). A car does not have very long cabling to act as antennas, and there is some protection from metallic construction."
__________________
I will not hide. I will not be deterred nor will I be intimidated from my performing my duty, I am a Canadian Soldier.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-28-2021, 04:34 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 3,840
Default Still Wondering

Thanks, Chico. I read the Minimizing Damage to Refineries from Nuclear Attack but didn't see a specific reference to the different effects of air burst and/or ground strikes against oil wells and/or refineries.

-
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure module, Rook's Gambit, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, and co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-28-2021, 07:10 PM
Southernap's Avatar
Southernap Southernap is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Washington State, USA
Posts: 83
Default Its called Weaponeering

So what you are thinking of is the Weaponeering. There are a number of books about it which deal with the conventional weapons and I am sure there are books about this for nuclear weapons.

Just remember there are at least 5 types of bursts. High altitude air, air burst, surface burst, sub-surface burst, deep underwater burst.

To me it would work best to have the low altitude air burst against both refineries and oil wells, since the burst wave would do the most damage to all the facilities that would be touched by the pressure wave from an air burst.
__________________
Hey, Law and Order's a team, man. He finds the bombs, I drive the car. We tried the other way, but it didn't work.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-28-2021, 09:44 PM
Legbreaker's Avatar
Legbreaker Legbreaker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 5,070
Default

Keep in mind that T2k is not the real world and physics are slightly different (take a look at radiation half life IRL and in the game for an example.
There's no reason to think EMP isn't also a little different in the game universe and somewhat nastier than in our own reality.
__________________
If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

Mors ante pudorem
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-14-2022, 04:18 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 3,840
Default Top 10 Largest Nuclear Explosions

A neat infographic, and Top 10 list:

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/lar...ar-explosions/

-
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure module, Rook's Gambit, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, and co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-27-2022, 02:14 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 3,840
Default Nuclear Winter is Coming

Simulation Shows The Devastating Impact Of A Nuclear War Between The US And Russia

https://www.iflscience.com/environme...AWW7yB2qSAGTXw

-
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure module, Rook's Gambit, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, and co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-30-2022, 11:10 PM
castlebravo92 castlebravo92 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Posts: 63
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southernap View Post
So what you are thinking of is the Weaponeering. There are a number of books about it which deal with the conventional weapons and I am sure there are books about this for nuclear weapons.

Just remember there are at least 5 types of bursts. High altitude air, air burst, surface burst, sub-surface burst, deep underwater burst.

To me it would work best to have the low altitude air burst against both refineries and oil wells, since the burst wave would do the most damage to all the facilities that would be touched by the pressure wave from an air burst.
IRL no one would waste a nuke on an oil field. Pump jacks are not soft targets, there are a ton of them servicing a major field spread out over thousands of square kilometers. Juice isn't worth the squeeze even with 1984 stockpiles. Refineries, though, absolutely. Oil storage, yes, Ports capable of loading or offloading, yes,

You would probably want an airburst to optimize the 12+ psi range, although anything over 5 psi would probably be a hard kill, and anything over 2 psi would be a soft kill for a refinery. 12 psi would mostly guarantee that pretty much everything but some vertical pipe columns would be flattened.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-20-2022, 01:12 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 3,840
Default Effects of Tactical Nuclear Weapons

Most of what I've seen on the topic of the nuclear explosion effects focusses on high-yield strategic weapons. From this, I've tended to extrapolate a scaled-down version of these effects for tactical weapons, and applied that in the T2kU. Based on the linked articles, it appears now that that was in error, and that tactical nuclear weapons have some key differences as far as effects are concerned, especially in terms of radiological impact. The article abstract is as follows:

"In this article, we offer a detailed explanation of nuclear weapons effects and the misconceptions many readers have concerning the ways in which it is possible to use non-strategic nuclear weapons while reducing collateral effects associated with nuclear weapons."

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...uclear-weapons

Application to T2k 4e

The 4e manual includes 3-4 random encounters in which the PCs run across large surface craters, often containing some standing water, and usually highly radioactive. It's pretty clear that the authors were trying to create a post-nuclear conflict atmosphere for the setting and what better way to do it*. I can't fault them for that but, according to the linked article, such craters would be relatively rare, and not quite as radioactive as portrayed in the game rules.

Question:

*Assuming most tactical strikes are air-bursts, the apparent damage attributable to a nuclear weapon might be much less obvious. After a year or two, damage from a low-yield airburst would probably be indistinguishable from that left behind by heavy conventional fighting, and radiation in the area could be negligible. How would a PC be able to differentiate between the two potential causes of damage, nuclear or conventional, to a given area? If damage was created by a low-yield nuclear airburst, what clues to its actual nature would there be?

-
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure module, Rook's Gambit, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, and co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook

Last edited by Raellus; 12-20-2022 at 03:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.