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Old 04-26-2010, 07:25 PM
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pmulcahy11b pmulcahy11b is offline
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Default I Need Some Google-Fu Expertise

I was just fooling around on the internet and started looking at stuff about the Tank Breaker and Assault Breaker programs mentioned in the T2K timelines. (They're real, BTW -- the Tank Breaker program resulted in the Javelin ATGM and the Assault Breaker program created the Wide-Area Antiarmor Munition Bomb and the Extended-Range Antiarmor Munition round for 155mm howitzers, MLRS rockets, and ATACMS missiles.)

But I also came across something else interesting by accident, at this page:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa015.html

It mentions this:

STAFF

Another third generation, man-portable antitank system is called the Small Target-Activated Fire-and-Forget (STAFF) weapon. It is described as a 155-millimeter (6.1-inch) diameter recoilless rifle that is fired from the shoulder like a bazooka. Its range is one to one-and-a-half miles, and it is aimed to fly over the tank like the skeet previously described. A millimeter-wave radar looks for the tank and, upon detection, the projectile explodes, driving a slug down at the tank. Whereas TANK BREAKER is all-weather, day-or-night capable, its infrared sensor can be defeated by a smoke screen. The millimeter-wave radar of STAFF overcomes that limitation.


I've never heard of that one, and I'd like to know more about it. I can't figure out how to query any of the search engines to give me anything but irrelevant stuff (virtually all the results I get have to do with the staffs of corporations, businesses, or military units). I need someone to help that has better skill at manipulating search engines, and I know that there are some of you on this board that are really good at it. Help me out?
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Old 04-26-2010, 07:51 PM
cavtroop cavtroop is offline
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Hmmm, found this, a 120mm STAFF round:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m943.htm

But that's it. Lots of crap, though. Looks like 'STAFF' may be a class of weapons, and not necessarily a specific round/weapon system?

I'll keep digging though...
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:06 PM
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I know about the STAFF 120mm tank gun round, but this "STAFF" I stumbled across is something different. Still, they may both be the results of the same weapons research.
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b View Post
I know about the STAFF 120mm tank gun round, but this "STAFF" I stumbled across is something different. Still, they may both be the results of the same weapons research.
Yeah, looks to be the same tech. The only reference I can find to the shoulder launched one is the link you posted. Haven't given up yet though
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:36 PM
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Hmmm, interesting patent appication from 1985:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4519315.pdf
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavtroop View Post
Hmmm, interesting patent appication from 1985:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4519315.pdf
That does sound like the STAFF missile mentioned on that web site. Nice find!
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:38 PM
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While this isn't particularly helpful it's something to always keep in mind - the information you're looking for isn't always posted to the net.
Sounds simple I know but I tend to forget it at times. A friend who is interested in Cold War vehicles mentioned it to me all the time particularly when he has been looking for information on certain vehicles, if someone hasn't posted the information, it isn't there to be found so you are just not going to find it.
With this STAFF technology, the two documents mentioned already might just be all that's been posted to the net?
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Old 04-27-2010, 07:42 PM
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I have doubts that a 155mm recoilless rifle could be fired from the shoulder.

There was a 155mm recoilless gun used as part of the Davy Crockett weapon system - but it was far too big to be used like a bazooka.

http://www.1-33rdar.org/Detailed_M29.jpg


Could this be an example of a deception tactic, a non-existent weapon intended to worry the Soviets?
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Old 04-27-2010, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt W View Post
I have doubts that a 155mm recoilless rifle could be fired from the shoulder.

There was a 155mm recoilless gun used as part of the Davy Crockett weapon system - but it was far too big to be used like a bazooka.

http://www.1-33rdar.org/Detailed_M29.jpg


Could this be an example of a deception tactic, a non-existent weapon intended to worry the Soviets?
Thats also the only reference I could find to a 155mm RR online, also. I'm thinking this doc at cato.org is either erroneous (i.e. wrong facts re: that patent I found) or as Matt said, intentionally misleading...
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:57 AM
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A little ways down this page:

http://www.armyrecognition.com/forum...e440a49012e0a7

...it talks about Honeywell's entry for the predecessor to the Tank Breaker program, the IMMAWS. I think that is the same weapon as the STAFF missile. It gives us a new entry for the search engines.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b View Post
A little ways down this page:

http://www.armyrecognition.com/forum...e440a49012e0a7

...it talks about Honeywell's entry for the predecessor to the Tank Breaker program, the IMMAWS. I think that is the same weapon as the STAFF missile. It gives us a new entry for the search engines.
wow, great find! I'll be doing some more searching soon
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:32 PM
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Lol, my top google return was this thread.

Also found this;

http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/chron5/1980.html

Redstone Arsenal Complex Chronology

Lots of info, and some of it seems relevant.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Lol, my top google return was this thread.
That happens all the time when I'm researching military stuff -- topics on this board end up in the top ten search results. And usually, somewhere within the first two pages of Google results, will be a page from my own web site.
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Old 04-30-2010, 08:12 PM
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Bit hard to expect otherwise Paul - you quickly become the online guru for all things miltary as you gather info and colate it all. :P
Speaking for myself, I'd say you're doing an awesome job and creating a resource I'd be lost without!

As for the topic in hand, I can't add much beyond an observation that going back to pre-internet research options may yeild the best result - actually picking up the phone, writing letters, visiting libraries, hitting up snitches, etc. We all get lost in thinking the net has all the answeres sometimes (I know I often do and research, background checks, etc are my bread and butter).
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Old 05-23-2010, 04:13 AM
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STAFF morphed into MPIM is my understanding.
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